Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Haplo]

Eh, this specific aspect is not directly improved. Actually a lot of spells feel nerfed, because of: move to per encounter, rather then vancian, the new 3 tier Affliction/Inspiration system where a large part of buffs/debuffs has been translated into and increased final potential due to multiclass and equipment combos.

Overall I like Deadfire better I think. But it was win some, loose some transition. Deadfire has a much better central hub, factions, itemization. More interesting and involved character building due to multiclassing and subclassses. Less trash fights, I think. More book encounters, skill/ability checks.
PoE had more distinct (single) classes, better Health/Endurance/knockout system, vancian casting. White March remains the highlight of both PoE parts. Although the PoE2 DLCs are not half bad either.

 

[Haplo]

I think Chanters and Ciphers are badly designed on a fundamental level. They exist outside of the mechanics of the game (limited resources for every other class), making them square pegs being forced into round holes. It's inelegant and could've been done better. Like we've discussed many a time before, a lot of classes (monks, barbarians, druids, rangers) should've been cut and their very few unique abilities reallocated to other classes as feats. Chanter and Cipher could've easily been a single class, summoning illusions instead of a random selection of creatures. They very obviously did not have enough ideas to go around, making the classes extra same-y. That's why people think it would've been better as a classless system (with which I agree if they weren't willing to cut classes).

Strongly disagree here. Chanters and particularly Ciphers were some of the greatest PoE inventions IMO. Different resources/power acquisition methods is one of the coolest concepts of PoE.

Monks, barbarians rangers and druids are also all very distinct and each feeel unique - in a good way.

Granted, Deadfire made all the casters feel slightly same-y again, by making all abilities per encounter (and retardedly leaving some item abilities per rest).

 

[Lacrymas]

Strongly disagree here. Chanters and particularly Ciphers were some of the greatest PoE inventions IMO. Different resources/power acquisition methods is one of the coolest concepts of PoE.

If every class had such a mechanic, or at least most of them, I'd agree, but taken as a whole they don't make sense in this particular system. Making them ~better (better is not the right word, but it's hard to explain) than the other classes. And "Deadfire made all the casters feel slightly same-y again"? When was the time they didn't? They didn't have enough ideas for 9 spell circles' worth of spells for so many classes, just like D&D, Sawyer should've known better. Druids are nature wizards, just worse, and their very few unique spells could've been given to a Wizard school instead. The way shapeshifting was implemented is very disappointing and lame. Usually Druids are one of my favorite classes, but they made them feel like Wizards who I usually think are lame because they are overdone. As for the classes which should've been cut, you obviously have a more ...forgiving understanding of what unique and distinct mean.

 

[Haplo]

No, I still can't quite get over the loss of PoE1 Barbarian.

And Ciphers / Chanters were not "better". They were different.
They couldn't compare to a wizard unloading spells when it really mattered.

Druids.. okay, they may not be extremly distinct. But other systems have them also, so nothing wrong with them IMO.

 

[Lacrymas]

Carnage and whatever feat you think are what makes them feel unique (barbaric blow?) could've easily been given to either a Fighter subclass or as Fighter feats in general. 2 abilities aren't worth a class. I'm also salty about the removal of Priest of Skaen's sneak attack, but c'est la vie.

Ciphers and Chanters aren't "better", like I said, they are outside of the mechanics of the game because they were conceived of later, and oh boy does it show.

 

[Haplo]

Carnage and whatever feat you think are what makes them feel unique (barbaric blow?) could've easily been given to either a Fighter subclass or as Fighter feats in general. 2 abilities aren't worth a class. I'm also salty about the removal of Priest of Skaen's sneak attack, but c'est la vie.

That's too reductionist for my taste. My PoE1 Barb was a whirling force of destruction, all offense, no defense furrball, knocking down whole battlefields and creating huge stream of healing to keep him alive and kicking.
Yeah, I suppose you could make a fighter subclass or something like that. But then you eventually end up with: Fighter, Magic User and Sneaky Guy. Which just lacks any style and is just a sign of very poor imagination IMO.

 

[Lacrymas]

Quite the contrary, you end up with Fighter, Wizard, Priest, Rogue, Ciphanter (I'd call it a psionicist or something), and Paladin. 6 classes with large enough feat selection to make 2 characters of the same class vastly different when you take into account that the remaining cut classes' abilities would've been divided between them. The current status quo has you select the same feats even cross-class because so few are actually useful. You'd be hard-pressed to find PoE1 builds which didn't get the same feats and used the same items over and over again (that plate that caused rage, apprentice sneak attack, the boots which caused hallowed ground, gauntlets of swift action, maegfolc skull, savage attack)

 

[Haplo]

True. No longer the case in Deadfire, though.


And on topic of Cipher and Chanter powers, each of them has a unique flavor, application style and field of specialization. Different from other casters.
...so I still cannot agree with the reductionist approach.

Same story ranger. Same story barbarian. Frankly I'd rather merge Paladin with Fighter and Druid with Priest then those.

 

[Haplo]

Mr. Magniloquent

Additionally even if, like I wrote, some spells feel nerfed at first, in the end you can often achieve more. Due to new synergies, such as multiclassing. For example by crossing a mage with an Assassin, spells cast from stealth will have a hefty 25 Accuracy bonus. Furthermore, if they crit (and rogue kit does offer 10% hit-to-crit conversion... in addition to a wizard's buff for +15% and equipment for +15%, +10%), they deal +50% extra damage and improve the Penetration by 4 (which is doubled on crit and often results in Overpenetration for +30%).

Fighter will have an additional 30% Critical conversion that works with spells (and his aoe Clear Out move will work with Citzal's Lance making it an aoe x aoe type multihit attack). Monk will have speed, great Intelligence, Penetration and potentially Might bonuses. Barbarian will have significant speed and Might bonuses and will void Recovery also on spell kills (!); possibly also Penetration. Paladin will have a bit of a lash that can work with spells.

And, well, that's just the tip of the iceberg, as items provide interesting and sometimes very poweful synergies also.

Like that Deltro's Cage helmet that provides a % shock damage lash equal to received shock damage. And you can self-target with mage shock spells.... Get a nice crit on yourself and suddenly you're doing nearly 2,5x damage.

 

[Quillon]

yeah you should have fucking done that

 

[Ramnozack]

yeah you should have fucking done that

Instead you have all these bounties available right from the start where you can get to level 13-14 doing no main/faction quests or any exploring. Then get to even higher levels by doing easy dialogue only quests.

 

[Yosharian]

Is not just levels, it's also quest fatigue

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Is not just levels, it's also quest fatigue

Maybe if the quests are generic and uninspired. That staggering amount of quests in BG2 never felt tedious, even after years and years of replay. Bottled lightning perhaps, but worth stating.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Lacrymas]

The lore of PoE is quite dry. Statements of facts with the corresponding years attached. Lists with exports we have no reason to care about. Out of context geographical descriptions. Migration patterns. It feels like the only meaningful event that has ever happened is the Saint's War.

 

[Butter]

The lore of PoE is quite dry. Statements of facts with the corresponding years attached. Lists with exports we have no reason to care about. Out of context geographical descriptions. Migration patterns. It feels like the only meaningful event that has ever happened is the Saint's War.

The history of the setting doesn't have many larger-than-life elements. Where is the warlord who personally decapitated an entire tribe's male population? What about a sorcerer who conquered a kingdom with mind control?

 

[Horvatii]

Why do you think Deflection is the best defense to target?
I mean vs some enemies, sure. But pretty much no enemies (save megabosses maybe) have both high Reflex and Fort. Best case (for them) both average.

Didnt I already say why? Its top1/2 lowest def everywhere because of enemy base stats and weapon enchantments apply. And thats before any other fuckery starts.
Its true that either relfex or fort often match deflection but only 1 of them and your mage has 2 spells to target that...

Ranger can get huge Accuracy bonuses, sure. But its single target! A mage targets multiple enemies at once.

Well, for ranger its 2 targets... but thats not the point. The point is Acc.
I do not doubt that a level 20 mage meets and surpasses other classes in DPS in most encounters with a bunch of mobs.
In fact, I'd guess that mage with 2 casts of Wilting Wind, at whatever level he gets it, might surpass a ranger.
But levels 1-11 against higher level enemies a caster doing damage is an inferiour choice to classes that do weapon damage.
He just doesnt have enough acc, not enough casts. He drops his 3-4 spells that maybe might do some damage and stands around.
I know, because I tried to make it work, multiple times. Combusting and ticking shit combos, AOE vs reduced defenses, debuffs, what have you.
If your damage dealer is not hitting, he is a occupying a slot...

Now if you match the enemy for level so your acc == enemy def, than you might just replace a low dmg char (in my case priest/cipher/druid) with wizard and be ok.
But if you match the enemy, its already easy mode and sleep inducing where nothing matters.

Now an assassin/caster combo does not count btw... I literally played a pure assassin as a caster-from-items. He probably would have been stronger if multiclased into anything...
But than again, we'd have to match for XP to compare.

 

[Haplo]

Try using morningstars to debuff Fort or flails to debuff Reflex.

 

[Yosharian]

The problem with Deadfire's DLCs is slogging through the base game to get to them, tried a couple of times now

 

[Ulfhednar]

Yeah, I want to play FS again, but can’t make myself play through the base game to get back to it.

 

[Riddler]

I made a mod that cuts all health in half, and I found turn-based feels really good with it: https://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity2/mods/418

It effectively means all healing is doubled, but I can't be bothered to weaken all the healing spells and potions in the game

Doesn't that just make alpha strikes even more hilariously broken?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Horvatii]

Yeah, I want to play FS again, but can’t make myself play through the base game to get back to it.

Whats the problem with "AddExperience 190000" and "KillAllEnemies" for the triggers? Its like 10 minutes to get the trigger. Leveling up will take more time...

Winter DLC is even open without any triggers required, not that anyone would want to play it...
The kiddy """labyrinths""" are obnoxious.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Verylittlefishes]

The orlans eventually rebelled and used mind control to overthrow their aumaua masters

look into my eyes, sweetie...surrender...