Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[gurugeorge]

Should factions in games be "balanced" (have good and bad sides) or should some factions be unambiguously good and some unambiuevil?
The idea that everything has to be "nuanced" has itself become as much of a cliche as the old "good vs. evil" at this point.

It's also fake, in that everything is nuanced, sure, but the nuance hardly ever amounts to making something that's good evil, or evil good. It just gives a bit of mitigation, makes more of a rounded composition in the aesthetic sense.

Everything in the world works on a Golden Ratio principle: it's about 5/8 what it is, and about 3/8 "nuanced"

Factions in and of themselves are played out as an RPG trope. "Who do you want to side with?" is usually no more interesting a question than "What colour ending do you want?", as most factions don't differ from each other in any significant gameplay way.

Well they do if one faction has the item that would just perfectly complete your build

 

[the mole]

Should factions in games be "balanced" (have good and bad sides) or should some factions be unambiguously good and some unambiuevil?

Trivial games are bad games.

opinion

what part is trivial

I think it's far more trivial to just have good and bad like every other idiotic game has

like oh demons vs angels, retard tier shit, divinity, pathfinder

it's the opposite of trivial actions have consequences good and bad, you aren't fighting the ultimate evil though so people that are dumb have a hard time understanding it

Bad alone is worse than good and bad, yes. Your clown world catechism has rotted your brain.

good vs evil, angels vs demons

retard tier

nuance is actually good

but most people can't understand that, your actions have consequences

The idea that everything has to be "nuanced" has itself become as much of a cliche as the old "good vs. evil" at this point.

It's also fake, in that everything is nuanced, sure, but the nuance hardly ever amounts to making something that's good evil, or evil good. It just gives a bit of mitigation, makes more of a rounded composition in the aesthetic sense.

Everything in the world works on a Golden Ratio principle: it's about 5/8 what it is, and about 3/8 "nuanced"

you're a retard

some factions have more good than bad it isn't always exactly a 1/1 ratio

old asshurt boomers will do literally anything to hate on this game, even when they are 100 percent wrong

literally boomers arguing that we should dumb down games, anything to bring them back to being a kid again

 

[the mole]

You said it was obvious yourself for fuck sake. And of course you’re right - by “good” they meant the retarded wokel version that turned all of y’all evil or “nuanced” braindead nihilists.

I was responding to your own characterization, then finding yourself at risk of having an original thought for the first time in your life you reached for your hurt durr nuance security blanket in a context where it makes no sense.

Soyer is too big of a pussy to risk nuance - that’s why his Twitter follows are 100% progtard and his games fail to hold player interest despite the beautiful setting and reasonably interesting gameplay.

it's obvious if you played the game but none of the retards that talk about it actually played it

so I had to point it out

the huana aren't the good guy faction, it's a parasitic communist society everything goes to the top, they also blindly follow tradition even if it means not planting seeds and starving because the gods will it

you're dismissed

 

[Desiderius]

Yes, leaving out the good Game of Thrones style is now a played-out boring trope which of course didn’t stop braindead Soyer writing all the faction quests in that style and wrapping up the quests by requiring some evil act for each faction and forcing a negative-sum game on the whole thing.

So edgy! So obvious! So predictable!

Some of the characterizations within the brutalist superstructure were compelling here and there but you always knew the whole thing wasn’t going anywhere because that might be somehow good.

Some progress.

 

[Tigranes]

Wow such intellect

Make Huana good guys? Oh no evil woke shit making dumb natives into heroes!

Wait, except the game doesn't do that, it shows very clearly Huana aren't 'noble savages' at all - oh no braindead Soyer making everything balanced in a fake and dumb way!

Just sticking big poorly defined words anywhere you want lets you feel good shitting at whatever you want to shit at but it doesn't make any sense for anybody else on planet Earth.

 

[Desiderius]

Leaving out the good is as much of a world-building failure as leaving out evil would be.

Those words are four letters each. If you can’t handle them that’s on you.

 

[gurugeorge]

Should factions in games be "balanced" (have good and bad sides) or should some factions be unambiguously good and some unambiuevil?

Trivial games are bad games.

opinion

what part is trivial

I think it's far more trivial to just have good and bad like every other idiotic game has

like oh demons vs angels, retard tier shit, divinity, pathfinder

it's the opposite of trivial actions have consequences good and bad, you aren't fighting the ultimate evil though so people that are dumb have a hard time understanding it

Bad alone is worse than good and bad, yes. Your clown world catechism has rotted your brain.

good vs evil, angels vs demons

retard tier

nuance is actually good

but most people can't understand that, your actions have consequences

The idea that everything has to be "nuanced" has itself become as much of a cliche as the old "good vs. evil" at this point.

It's also fake, in that everything is nuanced, sure, but the nuance hardly ever amounts to making something that's good evil, or evil good. It just gives a bit of mitigation, makes more of a rounded composition in the aesthetic sense.

Everything in the world works on a Golden Ratio principle: it's about 5/8 what it is, and about 3/8 "nuanced"

you're a retard

some factions have more good than bad it isn't always exactly a 1/1 ratio

old asshurt boomers will do literally anything to hate on this game, even when they are 100 percent wrong

literally boomers arguing that we should dumb down games, anything to bring them back to being a kid again

It's not "intelligenting a game up" to have nuance in it, or to point out that good actions can sometimes have unintended bad consequences, or that evil actions can sometimes have good unintended consequences. It's not some bright new thing that only occurred to people in the last quarter of the 20th century. Again, whether you show a thing as wholly good or just 5/8 good (as most things that have been called "good" are), it's still good, and it's still pereferable to something that's wholly bad or 5/8 bad.

IOW, it may be true that everything is "shades of grey," but the black and white of which grey is composed are not themselves grey. Idealized visions are just looking at the black and white in terms of stark contrast, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Both ways of telling stories - realism and romanticism - have a value and interest.

The real kids' view is, "I'm clever and I've discovered that things are nuanced, so there's no good or evil in the world - take that Dad!"

 

[the mole]

the boomer requires the perfect ratio of nuance

one percentile too much bad game

one percentile too little bad game

just make the exact same game I remember as a kid

god forbid it's made by sawyer, then you literally can't win no matter what

 

[Desiderius]

Good actions aren’t an option so you never even get to see what results would ensue. Swing your dicks around all you want - doesn’t change the fact the Soyer already cut them off and you didn’t even notice.

 

[Seusin]

the mole do you unironically call Nazis/Hitler the worst thing ever and say you fucking love science.

 

[the mole]

the mole do you unironically call Nazis/Hitler the worst thing ever and say you fucking love science.

did you unironically not read my earlier reply

the worst thing is a midwit pretending to be smart please stop now

 

[Desiderius]

Nah worst thing is a midwit mole pretending everyone else is dumb just so he can feel better about himself.

I’m sure you have other redeeming qualities, enjoy those and have fun with what other people can bring to the table.

 

[Desiderius]

Soyer’s progtardia isn’t completely devoid of good - Wakandans got grandfathered in, as did fighting slavery since Wakandans. And what do you know, the obligatory Wakandan companion’s quest is about... wait for it... slavery.

Bold choice, Soyer, not obvious at all. This is balanced out by the companion’s ribald commentary and lust for the wimmenfolk which are also -surprise - good in progtardia as long as practiced by Wakandans and phags.

Only surprise is that Serafen is evidently straight.

 

[the mole]

You are dumb I'm not pretending

 

[the mole]

There has to be 100 percent good guy and 100 percent bad guy faction

No grey areas allowed in Sawyer games

And on top of that I won't even play the game far enough into the story to figure it out

 

[Seusin]

the mole do you call Game of Thrones totally what Medieval Europe was like

 

[the mole]

the mole do you call Game of Thrones totally what Medieval Europe was like

do you read my previous post about black americans having 30 points lower iq than the founding stock

pretending I'm some lefty retard is midwitism

please stop

the game accurately depicts the flaws and virtues of various types of civilization

if you didn't play far enough into it to find that content then I don't know what to tell you

also I'm not normie scum that watches tv

 

[the mole]

wow guys new vegas is a masterpiece there are no perfect choices, choice and consequence great rpg

wow guys poe deadfire is fake, fake choice and consequence bad game for me terrible game dull game

 

[Seusin]

Actually Existing Lolbergism counts as Leftoid.

 

[the mole]

Actually Existing Lolbergism counts as Leftoid.

yea you're autistic and asshurt

 

[AwesomeButton]

literally boomers arguing that we should dumb down games, anything to bring them back to being a kid again

Tee-hee, that's true though. Dumbing down games is ok if it makes them resemble the dumbed down games from our childhood, but not if it resembles present day games.

Much of the criticism of Deadfire comes from the position of little experience with the game.

 

[Seusin]

literally boomers arguing that we should dumb down games, anything to bring them back to being a kid again

Tee-hee, that's true though. Dumbing down games is ok if it makes them resemble the dumbed down games from our childhood, but not if it resembles present day games.

Much of the criticism of Deadfire comes from the position of little experience with the game.

AwesomeButtom do you consider Rick & Morty to be top-tier philosophy

 

[AwesomeButton]

AwesomeButtom do you consider Rick & Morty to be top-tier philosophy

Let's try something more fun - try explaining to class what does "top-tier philosophy" mean?

 

[Ruchy]

My philosophy dad can beat up your philosophy dad.

 

[gurugeorge]

Funnily enough, I'm just playing PoE atm, and it's amazing how much improved the visuals are with PoE2 in terms of avoiding that horrible "graphic soup whiteout" effect you get in PoE as soon as there's tons of magic and fx flying around.

Thankfully I've discovered that you can zoom in closer with a console tweak, and that makes things much less of a headache to peer at (also, although the ground gets all blurry up close, the models are surprisingly sharp and nice looking), but it's still pretty awful visually. Combat is still fun and intricate though, for the most part.

Also, isometric is soooo shit. Have a fixed perspective if you absolutely must, but when you have things like a Cipher having to move around to get one of those moored ray things going accurately, or having to figure out where a big billiard ball of one sort or another is going to roll, isometric just isn't what the brain is used to when doing its folk geometry on the fly.

I've gone round the houses with PoE so much - loved it, then hated it, loved it, hated it, and I'm currently in a loving it phase again. The question is, will I actually get past Act 3 this time? I want to finish it because I want to play PoE2 in RtwP with extensive AI condition tweaking this time, and I want to do it with a char I've done the whole journey in the first game with.