Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Seusin]

AwesomeButtom do you consider Rick & Morty to be top-tier philosophy

Let's try something more fun - try explaining to class what does "top-tier philosophy" mean?

Depends on what it says about essential elements of our world like Niggers, women, etc.

 

[Goldschmidt]

The plot had too much about woke pirates and noble savages and muh fantasy politics. The bits strictly about the gods were the least bad.

Should've done a lot of pruning or did much better at making the le fantasy politics relate with the godly parts.

Is it just me or are Americans always the ones who project their own political vision on every game they play.
It is just a game, folks, get a grip. Games that are also played by 12 year olds. If you want to speak politics, go to a political forum and spew your shit there.

 

[Ruchy]

Nearing the end of my first play through, did it on veteran and found it still fairly easy probably because I play turn based. Anyway looking for mod recommendations for a second run if there are any worthwhile ones, mainly focused on increasing ai and possible classes etc as long as it's nothing stupid.

 

[Desiderius]

The plot had too much about woke pirates and noble savages and muh fantasy politics. The bits strictly about the gods were the least bad.

Should've done a lot of pruning or did much better at making the le fantasy politics relate with the godly parts.

Is it just me or are Americans always the ones who project their own political vision on every game they play.
It is just a game, folks, get a grip. Games that are also played by 12 year olds. If you want to speak politics, go to a political forum and spew your shit there.

Soyer is spewing his political shit on you through the game. Don't like it talk to him.

 

[Lacrymas]

Nearing the end of my first play through, did it on veteran and found it still fairly easy probably because I play turn based. Anyway looking for mod recommendations for a second run if there are any worthwhile ones, mainly focused on increasing ai and possible classes etc as long as it's nothing stupid.

Reduced xp (enable it after the tutorial island is over, though, the island is balanced on a razor's edge) and play on PotD. PoE1 and 2 are unplayable below PotD.

 

[gurugeorge]

Stll enjoying replaying PoE, and reflecting:- while I generally do prefer turn-based, I have to admit that the system Mr Sawyer and his friends designed for these games is a great system for RTwP play. It really responds very well to a way of playing where you just generally let your wee men do their thing but keep a close eye on the battlefield, stopping now and then to check positioning, conditions, etc., to try and anticipate trouble.

IOW, the bad way of thinking about RTwP is panic-and-pause. The right way of thinking about RTwP is to proactively pause. If you switch your brain around that way, it's a much less stressful and more relaxing experience, because then, psychologically speaking, your pausing is something under your control and not something forced on you.

I dunno, this may be obvious to most people and I'm just reinventing the wheel in my smol brain, but it just occurred to me in those terms. And in that case, the system Sawyer hath wrought is very well designed for proactively pausing in RTwP in that way.

Which then makes me wonder why he decided to implement a turn-based version of PoE2 at all? Was he just caving to pressure and covering his commercial bases due to the the mini-renaissance of turn-based as a result of the nuXCOMs and the turn-based mod (followed by its official implementation) in PF:K?

 

[Butter]

Turn-based mode in Deadfire was cooked up by a couple programmers after the game launched, and it was officially added in with the 5.0 patch because higher-ups liked it.

 

[the mole]

bros like the ncr in new vegas are such bullshit good guys am I right

anyone who disagrees voted for bernie am I right guys

 

[Red Hexapus]

Finished POE2 yesterday and I must say I did enjoy it, much more than the first game. I've played it in turn based mode and maybe that's one of the reasons, because I hated the combat clusterfuck of POE1. Although I wish there was an option like in P:K to switch between the two modes to have RTwP for trivial combat encounters.

Had a quiet stoic/rational ranger transferred from the first game, which aligned well with Berath, so I found it funny to stay in character as her Herald (especially that I did what she asked for in the first game). It was funny choosing "say nothing" most of the time too.

As for the main plot, I think there should have been a time limit imposed for reaching Eothas, it totally would make sense here. I guess if I ever replay the game I'll use this challenge.All the four factions were quite unappealing, so I've decided to go with the criminal group like in the first game (Principi in this case). I've realized at the end I could have gone there myself, but it was too late at this point to go back and decline Principi.

All in all it was quite a pleasurable experience I'd say.

PS. Also could someone tell what was the point of Grimoires? I'd expect that the spells scribed in one would be enhanced in power or something, as such never used any expect for the starting one.

 

[Suicidal]

PS. Also could someone tell what was the point of Grimoires? I'd expect that the spells scribed in one would be enhanced in power or something, as such never used any expect for the starting one.

Some grimoires have spells that you cannot learn by leveling up, including a very broken ice ball that paralyzes everything on hit. Also they can give you access to more spells, such as the ones you did not learn yourself.

 

[Yosharian]

PS. Also could someone tell what was the point of Grimoires? I'd expect that the spells scribed in one would be enhanced in power or something, as such never used any expect for the starting one.

Some grimoires have spells that you cannot learn by leveling up, including a very broken ice ball that paralyzes everything on hit. Also they can give you access to more spells, such as the ones you did not learn yourself.

I mean if broken means 'actually worth casting unlike the alternatives' then sure

 

[Desiderius]

Some Grimoires also come with abilities when equipped.

If you multiclass then you can use level-ups to get abilities in the other class while using the grims for extra spells.

For example if you go Evoker/Arcane Archer you use your level ups to make the pet a force, your Bond to cast your Imbued Shots, and Grimoires to fill in whatever buffs you want.

AA lets you use Web (usually uncastable by Evoker) to hold enemies in place, makes your nukes crit way more, and you’ve got a strong pet like Sylvan Sorc in P:K.

 

[gurugeorge]

Couldn't wait to get my "main" from PoE to go through to this, so I just made a little Zealot minx fresh for this game and got on with it. (I'll definitely get around to finishing PoE with my main though, the battlemage Wizard has to be one of the most damaging builds in PoE, really chunky.)

The conditional AI stuff in this game is AMAZING, great fiddly fun for all the family (playing on Hard atm, but I reckon I should be able to push it up to PoTD once I get the hang of it). I keep tinkering with it and seeing how it works. There's a great mod that adds a ton of conditionals, and I found this helpful comment on the obsidian forum that seems like it makes sense, and is sound advice:-

Spoiler

Scripting for dummies:

1st and most important, scripts are sequential. every few fractions of a second the AI reads the script from top to bottom

2nd, a player inputted command disables AI until that command is finished - If you tell Xoti to walk 1/2 way across the battlefield, she will do nothing else until that walk is finished or prevented by enemy action

1: is this box on cooldown - this refers to the customizable cooldown in the behavior settings, if yes: skip to next box if no: proceed

2: if necessary, define "target" - the word "target" in conditionals depends on the target set for the ability, this is especially important when referencing allies or enemies of the "target." the condition "Target: allies in melee range > 0" on an enemy only ability (a nuke) means: are there 2 enemies of the caster within melee range of each other(are there 2 enemies standing together)

The actual target will be chosen based on the target preference chosen(highest Will, lowest deflection, marked, etc), then nearest to farthest away(unless the preference chosen was "farthest")

3: conditional - target(self or ally): health below 50%, are there any allies or myself who are below half health? if yes: continue, if no: skip to next box

4: additional conditionals - ALL conditionals must be true for an ability to fire(useful for keeping a caster from using a huge nuke on just one peon enemy)

5: availability*- can the ability be cast/used(are you out of zeal/guile/focus/phrases/etc)? if yes: continue, if no: skip to next Ability, if no more abilities listed, skip to next box

6: range - is the target in range(non-factor for self target). if yes: cast ability, if no: check engagement status.

If not engaged: walk towards target(shortest path possible) until target is in range, cast ability.

If engaged: check engagement flag

if "allow disengage" checked: walk towards target(shortest path possible, taking the disengagement hit) until target is in range, cast ability.

if not: Skip to next Ability, if no more abilities listed, skip to next box***

The sequential nature is what screws up a lot of people, if you have a buff or attack listed above your heals, she'll never get around to casting a heal until she has no viable targets for her attacks(this is bad). Second wind should be the first conditional for every AI behavior for any character that can use it (self: health below 50% - second wind on self, no target preference)

USE YOUR COOLDOWNS - they default to 0 and should almost never be left that way unless you're building very specific conditionals or you'll just burn through your resources in seconds on useless actions(casting mirror image 4 times in 10 seconds)

be careful with conals - its probably a bug, but a conal ability(originates from caster acts in a triangle) doesn't check distance, if the target is 20m away, but your cone only reaches 5m in front of you, the AI will still fire the ability hitting nothing and wasting resources.

Generally speaking, and assuming not playing a beguiler-cipher or a rogue, most attacks shouldn't be set to AI until you reach a point where you have more resources than you really know what to do with. AI attacks increase DPS(the computer is faster than you) but greatly hurt flexibility - The "Self: has at least # resource" conditional can help here. Rogues and beguilers should keep some on AI to ensure sneak attacks stay active, but be very careful with rogues, guile doesn't regenerate.

All told the behavior editor is by far the most fleshed out one of those I've seen in quite some time, I'm actually very impressed. but, you gotta be careful with it, using it poorly can easily lead to a party wipe as characters stop filling their role because you "told" them to do other things

The more I play this the sadder I feel for poor old Josh. They made such a huge effort with this, and made something really good and highly polished, but it just didn't "take." I suspect a lot of people just took one look at the faggotry on the cover art and thought, "No thanks." But as with the discussion re. Soilasta that's going on concurrently, there's good gameplay and good writing, and then there's "activist" fluff around it. If you can compartmentalize and just enjoy the gameplay - which I think is the best RTwP gameplay yet made - it's tons of fun. And the storytelling is pretty good too.

Anyway, yeah, the AI stuff, amazing and lots of fun to play around with. I know some people strenuously object to the idea of a game "playing itself," but it's really just a different kind of fun from micro-managing everything. Tinkering with these little brains and seeing how they work in the field is quite fascinating.

 

[Lacrymas]

Just go for PotD immediately.

 

[gurugeorge]

Just go for PotD immediately.

Yeah I'm feeling it, it's already starting to get just a bit too easy (although it's always a balance between wanting to get through the story and wanting juicier fights). I did PoTD on my 3/4 of the game turn-based playthrough and it was very enjoyable, but RTwP is really where it's at with this game, the system is tailor-made for it, and I'm interested to see how far you can push the AI.

 

[ferratilis]

In two full playthroughs of PoE1 and one in PoE2, I've never even touched the AI settings, except for turning them off. It's interesting to see that some people here like them and makes me want to do another playthrough just playing around with those. I always thought that thing was put into the game because of people who hate RTwP, which I love btw. In PoE1 late game, every harder fight would start by summoning figurines on all my party members, one by one, but instead of getting annoying, I just take it as a part of the game. But, if AI settings add to the replay value of the game, I'll gladly take them.

 

[Butter]

It must be satisfying to wind your characters up and let them handle PotD fights without supervision, but on the other hand, what does that leave you doing for the rest of the game?

 

[Yosharian]

Imagine thinking that POTD improves any of the Pillars games

 

[Haplo]

PS. Also could someone tell what was the point of Grimoires? I'd expect that the spells scribed in one would be enhanced in power or something, as such never used any expect for the starting one.

Some grimoires have spells that you cannot learn by leveling up, including a very broken ice ball that paralyzes everything on hit. Also they can give you access to more spells, such as the ones you did not learn yourself.

Lots of other unique spells in grimoires. A Raw energy ray that pierces any Armor (and is even better in Turn Based mode due to damage "compression"). A conjured hammer that repeatedly hammers the enemy to the ground, making him prone, prohibiting from doing... well... anything and doing progressively more damage with every tick. An invisibility party trick that lets you chain cast CC spells while remaining untargettable and untouchable (and possibly getting +25 Accuracy bonus from Assassinate - if Assassin multiclass). A strong dual short-range poison spit weapon that can melt single opponents with some Poison Power Level boosts (and for example, sneak attack bonuses - if rogue MC). A dual Slash & Burn 2 x 15% lash for your melee attacks coupled with Terrify enemy attackers aura (Draconic Fury).
And probably a couple more.

Then there is one with a very notable unique power: Vaporous Wizardry gives you +1 use/per spell level/per encounter - effectively giving you +50% spell slots! (and potentially even more if you use Empower to replenish spells slots, AFAIR). The downside is that any damage you take becomes an Interrupt. Pretty nasty - but there is an easy way to make yourself entirely immune to interrupts. Simply buy Rekvu's Scorched Casque and get one Wound (can self inflict, for example with Necrotic Lance - for a very minor debuff).

Lastly, like Desiderius wrote, some builds hardly learn any spells at all and rely on grimoires instead - which you can switch (albeit with a delay). Particularly multiclass characters. Ninagauth's Teachings are a staple for offensive casters, Llengrath's Martial Power is typical for martial gishes. But these are just examples. Then you learn the few spells you want to use and your chosen grimoire doesn't include. Or you simply grimoire swap.

 

[Haplo]

Just go for PotD immediately.

Yeah I'm feeling it, it's already starting to get just a bit too easy (although it's always a balance between wanting to get through the story and wanting juicier fights). I did PoTD on my 3/4 of the game turn-based playthrough and it was very enjoyable, but RTwP is really where it's at with this game, the system is tailor-made for it, and I'm interested to see how far you can push the AI.

It could have been a good Turn Based system too - but the devs should have gone for individual initiative rounds, rather then have common frame rounds for all characters. Should have been obvious, with all those action speed modifiers. Alas.

 

[Yosharian]

POTD just makes every single enemy in the game effectively impervious to most spells and gives them mountains of hit points. Wow, super interesting design.

At least on Veteran difficulty you can occasionally cast e.g. a fireball and have it be moderately effective, as opposed to resorting to brute-forcing everything with specific overpowered weapons/spells

 

[Haplo]

"Impervious to most spells". Wow.
If that were the case, I wonder how its possible that spellcasters - and wizards in particular - are the strongest classes?
Sure, some spells/powers are stronger then others. Big deal. When this wasn't the case?

You want fireballs to be effective on PotD? Then play something like an Evoker/Assassin with Deltro's Helmet - who specializes in offensive magic. I guarantee that fireballs will be plenty effective then - even on PotD.

Or well, play smart and use Combusting Wounds instead, coupled with Wall of Flame, Chillfog, Ray of Fire / Death Ray and maybe Concussive Missiles for good measure. That way you can melt any enemy who is not resistant to Fire real fast.

 

[Yosharian]

Or you could just autoattack with a weapon instead and kill enemies 3x faster and with less hassle

I played many times on POTD and some spells just end up completely useless because they never penetrate or have retardedly low success chance.

Hell even on Veteran some spells end up effectively useless

 

[Haplo]

I think you should learn to target enemy weaknesses and/or debuff enemies, Yosh.

Single target, sure, a monk or rogue will autoattack an enemy to death faster then a wizard usually could (but if it happens to be a meatwall boss, those Combusing Wounds will still hasten the process a lot).

But disposing of 3 or more enemies at a time, while also disabling them via crowd control - the wizard wins.

 

[Desiderius]

AI is good for keeping instacast buffs up whenever they expire (mostly wiz spells but also the Fighter Acute thingie) while you still give regular orders for attacking and whatnot.