Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Delterius]

. My casual nerd friends have many hours in Pathfinder, and they don't actually play many RPGs outside of stuff like The Witcher 3.

That doesn't invalidate my point either. If they mostly play Pathfinder and Witcher 3 then what they like is medieval fantasy settings. It doesn't get more generic than Pathfinder.

I'm pessimistic about any notions that the public at large resonates with codexian notions of what a well designed game is. People buy games because of marketing. If they did then Divos2 would have collapsed under the weight of larians itemization.

 

[Grunker]

I’m not arguing against your generic fantasy point though. Then you’re reading me wrong. I’m just saying it goes deeper than that.

 

[Grunker]

Also of course they don’t agree with the Codex about design, that’s one of my points. PoE is actually way more complicated to play in moment-to-moment gameplay than all these other titles, which is one of my main points.

When an encounter fucks with you, it’s much harder to discern why, for example.

 

[AwesomeButton]

PoE still feels smaller imo. The number of areas may be comparable, but the size of areas, the length of side quests are in favor of BG in the former case, and in favor of BG2 in both cases. Like I said some plages ago, PoE just doesn't provide me with enough to lose myself in it.

 

[Grunker]

PoE still feels smaller imo. The number of areas may be comparable, but the size of areas, the length of side quests are in favor of BG in the former case, and in favor of BG2 in both cases. Like I said some plages ago, PoE just doesn't provide me with enough to lose myself in it.

Aren’t you basically agreeing with me now? My point on scope summarized is this:

PoE isn’t actually smaller than BG1 and 2. Its poor structure is what leaves this impression.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Aren’t you basically agreeing with me now? My point on scope summarized is this:

PoE isn’t actually smaller than BG1 and 2. Its poor structure is what leaves this impression.

I think it is "smaller", in terms of time it takes for a playthrough, and that's partly due to its structure. Its areas are smaller and there is little to no reason to return to a hub. I think the city in particular was scaled down from original intentions. For example on why I think so, you have a dungeon under one building (the sanitarium) that's as big as any one of the city's districts. Regarding technical problems they had, I remember a few cases when they had presented as news in a development update, some way they have found to optimize area load times. It was something they had difficulties with up until release, and their biggest patch was notable for improving loading times somewhat. One consequence of these problems with performance must have been that it made them wary of making game areas that are on the large side.

 

[gurugeorge]

I think that for the normies that fell off between POE and POE2, it's probably mainly the lack of proper story in POE that got their interest to drop off a cliff.

Specifically, the trial sequence. I think that was an instance of themselves shooting themselves in the foot with a bit of storyline that's pretty cool in and of itself, but doesn't sit well in a game that's supposed to center around player choice and consequence. Suddenly at that moment the whole game is taken out of your hands in a way that's particularly annoying just at that moment. Because prior to that, you're starting to get into the saddle with the game (it's quite engaging up to that point), so suddenly having events go outside your control at that point is deflating wrt the momentum you're starting to build up with the game.

I think also, while I personally like the game systems in POE and POE2, the problem is that they were a bit bland for normies. See, a lot of normies (and probably a fair few people here) play RPGs for the "IWIN" button - of which there's usually some obviously OP build or weapon or spell or whatever (there always was in the "classics"). And POE didn't really have that, in fact it seemed specifically designed to frustrate the player from having that.

But I think that wouldn't have stood out so much if the story had been more engaging, people would have accepted it more, but in a context where the story wasn't grabbing them, not having your typical "IWIN" button became an irritation.

So no interest in the sequel (even though it's a pretty good game really, that righted some of the wrongs of its predecessor).

 

[AwesomeButton]

HAHAHAHAH, the article speaks of the story without mentioning Eothas or the gods at all!

Mirroring our own murky history, specifically the colonisation of the Pacific, foreign factions are creeping into the archipelago, threatening the traditional way of life of the native Huana. Some welcome the jobs and trade, while others see it as an invasion. This is the basis of some of the game's most compelling stories—and you can choose whether you ally with the Huana, get chummy with the colonisers, or remain coldly neutral.

Like we've said here numerous times, the political plot is more interesting than forced "gods aren't real" deama.

EDIT: they actually mention Eothas with two sentences in the conclusion to the article.

 

[pomenitul]

I’ve never seen anyone complain about the trial sequence outside of the Codex – how many players even made it that far anyway? I’m fairly certain that what most of us look for in an RPG is at a significant remove from the tastes of normies. As such, when speculating about Deadfire’s commercial failure it’s best to avoid peppering one’s theories with grognard pet peeves, which by definition aren’t shared by the hoi polloi. To my mind, the most convincing accounts are that 1) PoE1 wasn’t flashy and generic enough of a fantasy setting to yield broad enthusiasm beyond its fanbase; 2) doubling down on the resistance to generic medieval fantasy by ushering the Watcher into a colonial pirate theme park was a losing move. Both games have other flaws that have rightly been pointed out over the years but these are the two that strike me as having the greatest import to casuals.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

But definetely think they should have rolled all their resources spent on Twin Elms into Definance Bay t

Indeed. Twin Eels map should have been a wilderness area around Defiance Bay, with all the quests building up to the trial.

 

[AwesomeButton]

But definetely think they should have rolled all their resources spent on Twin Elms into Definance Bay t

Indeed. Twin Eels map should have been a wilderness area around Defiance Bay, with all the quests building up to the trial.

Was this a part of the plan at some point?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'd have more reasonable stuff to say about Pillars but the fucker is still loading.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'd have more reasonable stuff to say about Pillars but the fucker is still loading.

Since 2015?

Buy an SSD already!

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I'd have more reasonable stuff to say about Pillars but the fucker is still loading.

Since 2015?

Buy an SSD already!

Still loading

 

[Grunker]

I'd have more reasonable stuff to say about Pillars but the fucker is still loading.

Since 2015?

Buy an SSD already!

The original is pretty slow even with a good SSD.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I bought my first SSD a little before PoE's release, so I've never tried it on HDD. Maybe I've only played the backer beta on SSD.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Good. Both IWDs are severely underrated these days; they deserve more love.

codex hipsterism going into overdrive

 

[Modron]

I would say Icewind Dales are rated pretty accurately, well maybe II is overrated it had ~33% too much trash mobs in every location. This overubundance of trash mobs was giving the player too much xp so they came up with a system where enemies stopped giving players xp if said enemies were x levels below the party average. Icewind Dale 2 in a nutshell: walk three feet trigger an onrush of 30-40 trash enemies who don't give you xp or any worthwhile loot, walk three more feet to trigger next bunch of trash, ad nauseum until complete (yeah yeah I know some areas were decent but they were few and far between).

The goofiest part about the xp scaling system was that it would prevent your spellcasters from reaching the level required for the highest spells. They went through all this trouble of coding/developing the art for a whole tier of spells that 99.9% of players never saw because the only way to do so was to game the system by not leveling up until you had enough xp to reach said levels or incorporate 1-2 level 1 characters into your party and never level them to keep the average character level down. All this when they could have just removed 25% of the trash.

 

[Grunker]

IWD 1 is a great little game

IWD 2 is less good but still OK

which is pretty much the hivemind opinion

so yeah, rated accurately

 

[ferratilis]

What makes IWD 2 'less good?' I'm curious because I haven't played it yet, but am planning to.

 

[Butter]

What makes IWD 2 'less good?' I'm curious because I haven't played it yet, but am planning to.

3E ruleset, more bloated with content, less polished, puzzles that break the pacing.

 

[Grunker]

What makes IWD 2 'less good?' I'm curious because I haven't played it yet, but am planning to.

Two reasons for me: less focused with many more uninteresting encounters, but more importantly, it completely lacks that incredible atmosphere and aesthetic of the original. There's something moody, compellingly unique about the first game's locales - at least during the first half - that the second one just doesn't quite hit. Everything from the score to the areas is just less aesthetically... the danish word I'm looking for is "formfuldendt" which means something like "complete in its vision/impeccably fulfilling its design goal". The game is more of a mess, basically.

 

[AwesomeButton]

IWD - best writing among the IE games, from the perspective of a grown-up. Also, the most beautiful areas. Voiceacting is sparse but good, the way it should always be.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the only thing IWD has going for it is snow
which is a lot, but not enough

 

[Falksi]

same

If the first one hadn't been a huge let-down, I would have.

I still intend on playing PoE2, but as a casual bargain-basement buy one day. After playing the first they're lucky for that to be the case.