Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Bonerbill]

It's certainly a mystery. The level of success is quite unprecedented in the modern era. I just took a quick look and DOS2 is currently sitting at more copies and sells at higher price than Dishonored 2. Let that sink in for a minute. Goofy indie turn-based RPG, priced near AAA levels and with barely any discounts, moves more units at a higher price than AAA blockbuster with full backing of Zenimax marketing. And Dishonored 2 isn't even a dud, it was well received, well reviewed, and actually pretty good game.

It's absolute madness.

Usually AAA games sell better on console. Divinity is a PC exclusive at the moment, so there is no where else to get it.

 

[fantadomat]

It's certainly a mystery. The level of success is quite unprecedented in the modern era. I just took a quick look and DOS2 is currently sitting at more copies and sells at higher price than Dishonored 2. Let that sink in for a minute. Goofy indie turn-based RPG, priced near AAA levels and with barely any discounts, moves more units at a higher price than AAA blockbuster with full backing of Zenimax marketing. And Dishonored 2 isn't even a dud, it was well received, well reviewed, and actually pretty good game.

It's absolute madness.

I have noticed that the customers have become very jaded last few years. Most AAA games failed this year or were a mediocre successes. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the industry.

 

[Haplo]

It's D:OS' most gimmicky mechanic, but I guess flashiness is all that matters.

There was that story from some classic game (the name escapes me). The playtesters hated some weapon and thought it's useless and does poor damage. Next patch audio people upgraded weapon sounds to more epic sounding, and the same playtesters started thinking damage was hugely improved.

So yeah, flashiness is an important part of satisfying gameplay. I caught myself running 2x arquebus in PoE just because I liked their shooting sound and loading animation , even when I knew fully well the damage per minute wasn't that good.

Damage per minute isn't all that counts though. They have good alpha strike capability and often outright killing pesky casters in the first salvo and then proceeding to mop up is better then having good sustainable DPS.

 

[Haplo]

The environmental interactions are D:OS best mechanic, and while I don't play MP, I can see why the elemental paper/rock/scissors would be a lot of fun when playing with someone. Diabloesque loot for a crpg, though, is awful.

Being compared with D:OS2 is quite insulting for Diablo loot system.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Being compared with D:OS2 is quite insulting for Diablo loot system.

Au contraire, 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery .'
Larian followed Blizzard because they knew that the Diablo loot system was popular. They just neglected the player's need to be able to grind repeat content and scale difficulty to generate an endless supply of suitable loot. It's not that random item attributes are inherently bad, they just make little sense in a game with predetermined encounters.

 

[Elex]

It's certainly a mystery. The level of success is quite unprecedented in the modern era. I just took a quick look and DOS2 is currently sitting at more copies and sells at higher price than Dishonored 2. Let that sink in for a minute. Goofy indie turn-based RPG, priced near AAA levels and with barely any discounts, moves more units at a higher price than AAA blockbuster with full backing of Zenimax marketing. And Dishonored 2 isn't even a dud, it was well received, well reviewed, and actually pretty good game.

It's absolute madness.

I have noticed that the customers have become very jaded last few years. Most AAA games failed this year or were a mediocre successes. It will be interesting to see what will happen to the industry.

money move to mobile cash grab. kicstarter will gradually disappear.
switch will dominate console market.
3579 battle royale modes games will release.
so basically: less risk, because too game are released and only the one that manage to go viral can generate massive money.

 

[Lacrymas]

Au contraire, 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery .'
Larian followed Blizzard because they knew that the Diablo loot system was popular. They just neglected the player's need to be able to grind repeat content and scale difficulty to generate an endless supply of suitable loot. It's not that random item attributes are inherently bad, they just make little sense in a game with predetermined encounters.

Not only that, but it ruins exploration because you know you'll get the same generic items, you can't plan builds around items because you don't know what you'll get and it hurts replayability because you'll have nothing to look forward to on a repeat playthrough. It's a nonsensical mess and I don't know how Larian/Swen can't see that.

 

[Reinhardt]

I remember trying BG2 MP one time. We took 30 minutes to roll characters, then 30 to do the opening dialogues. Then we quit forever.

We played IWD2 once. I was paladin and did all the talking in starting town but everyone still got bored pretty fast and we finished.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

While I agree about flaws in D:OS 2's loot system and over9000 bugs, but I want to say that shit talk about "bad influence on industry, cuz explosions and flashy shit" sounds like mumbling of lunatic from mental hospital. I mean, there was always special effects, it's called magic. Even without magic there exist explosions and flashy lasers in games, for example Fallout games. All magic in games exist only because people love concept where you can bend reality on your will and being bad ass, who throw fireballs an enemies. There are examples of magic in games without flashy effects, but guess what? It's not popular/weak types of magic.

So in result in MANY games mages pull out their asses effects which making Michael Bay jealous, but when someone place some barrels in their game with oil/water and make this garbage useful for players - "BAD INFLUENCE ON INDUSTRY!111!1! GAEM SHIT!111 aNd mAde for stupId peple1!111" and other similar reactions from arrogant hypocrites, who secretly fap on overpowered spell "Time Stop" in old Bioware games.
While game had over9000 bugs at start (especially ending slides, where my dwarf pirate got ending for elf woman, lol) and serious issues with loot (also crafting feels like castrated and too small amount situations where you can persuade "bad guys" stop doing evil shit), there nothing bad in interaction with environment, I think it's possible in tabletop RPG for warrior player (or mage with telekinesis) to bargain with DM about moving barrels around location with possibility to ignite oil inside, so why the fuck CRPG should not have such opportunity? Stop make issue from things which was not issues to begin with. Stop it. Get some help.
Also it's Deadfire thread, not D:OS 2 , so why this shit barrel started to begin with? If Deadfire would be influenced by D:OS 2 it's not meant 100% possibility that devs would throw barrels all over the place.

 

[aweigh]

When people make posts like the above one conflating magic and special effects or thinking exploding barrels are noteworthy, i always get annoyed because it's obviously being posted by someone who is very new to RPGs who has little to no exposure to 80s RPGs.

I don't have any issues whatsoever with interactive objects during battle, JRPGs and CRPGs have been doing it for decades... and I doubt anyone else has a problem with exploding barrels either.

For the record, bro, no one has any problems with DOS using interactive objects in combat, if any problems are being had here it's because some folks are citing that as an indication of DOS having "depth" which, (sigh) IMO, it does not. As a very broad summation of this issue:

- the "barrel haters" use the example mainly to point out how DOS utilizes this tired gimmick as a substitute for actually engaging battle mechanics and competent encounter design.

 

[Ruzen]

Its not that people are having issues with exploding things with the D:OS2. you get to use "elements" interacting with each other. Ok cool, what else? What else is none! The stats are worse than diablo, remind that I'm forced to compare this game with diable at this point; most of the mechanics in the game (like initiative) are weird. Skills have turned into tiers. The pacing never ends because there is always chance to find that +1 item. It's a good game and if it received good enchanting edition or something It could get even better which could be considered one of the best rpgs but it's not like "genre-defining", "rebirth of RPG" or " the new gold standard"

 

[V_K]

and I doubt anyone else has a problem with exploding barrels either.

I have a problem with exploding/poison/whatever barrels in DOS: their placement in the gameworld makes no sense.
(not to mention why would anyone have a whole barrel of poson in the first place)

 

[aweigh]

yeah, that dovetails into my pseudo-bullet point about how they use those interactive elements in lieu of good design, but i also agree that even those interactive elements weren't well executed either anyway

over in the shadowrun: dragonfall thread there is good discussion of all of DOS 1 and 2's faults as well. I find it funny how any thread of the big 3 kickstarter RPGs
- poe
- wasteland 2
- SR: dragonfall

any thread about any of these games will eventually become a dissection of DOS 1 (and 2). always. guaranteed.

In the SR: Dragonfall thread the consensus reached was essentially that DOS fails fundamentally because of a "pervading sense of pointlessness", which i found to be just a beautiful encapsulation of the DOS RPG experience.

 

[Jimmious]

It's because D:OS 1 and 2 are by far the best games to come out in the recent re-animation of CRPGs so they are becoming "benchmarks". Any CRPG that comes out will be compared to them in some way... at least until something else replaces them in their throne.

 

[Lacrymas]

No, they aren't the best, lolololooool. Even PoE with WM is better. D:OS does one thing well and it was too easy to matter, 2 fucks even that up with the armor system, initiative and dumbed down stats. I'd say the nu-Shadowruns are the "best" because you have to overlook the least amount of issues and it's the only not tired setting. All of them are low hanging fruits, though, and I wouldn't say they are a successful representation of the genre. D:OS got the most mainstream coverage and that's why everyone will copy its homework, not because it's good or "the best".

 

[Infinitron]

Sup 2015s? http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9721

 

[fantadomat]

DOS is like Skyrim,low end entertainment.

 

[Infinitron]

Hey hey, actual PoE2 content!

It's a beta preview: http://www.pcgamer.com/tackling-an-...ngry-titan-in-pillars-of-eternity-2-deadfire/

Tackling an ancient curse and an angry titan in Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Hands-on with Obsidian’s next fantasy epic.

Firebeard is a dwarven swashbuckler with a sideline in assassination and thievery. He’s charming, cunning, and streetwise, but intelligent and well-traveled too, with an intellect as sharp as his rapier. This is the character I’ve created for my first foray into Deadfire, the sequel to Pillars of Eternity. I take advantage of the new multiclass system and make my red-bearded hero a fighter/rogue, with a shadowy criminal past that gives him buffs to stealth and perception, as well as a knack for using pistols and swords in combat. An ideal character, I think, for a game that sees you captaining your own ship and sailing the high fantasy seas of the Deadfire Archipelago.

I arrive on the remote island of Tikawara, home to the Huana. They’ve lived here for thousands of years, but their way of life is being threatened by the arrival of seafaring explorers—including the Vailian Trading Company, who seek to make a profit in the region. Disembarking from my ship, I meet a concerned-looking man called Vektor on a wooden dock. Noticing that I’m a fellow mountain dwarf, he seems relieved. “How long I waited for a familiar face in this friendless hovel!” he exclaims, eager to share his predicament with me.

A member of the aforementioned Vailian Trading Company, Vektor sailed to Tikawara with his crew searching for luminous adra. Adra is a precious crystalline substance in Pillars’ world that grows out of the ground. But the crew disappeared while investigating a nearby island to the east, Poko Kohara. I lie to Vektor, telling him the Company sent me to investigate, and ask him if there’ll be a reward for my efforts. A little mercenary, sure, but that’s how Firebeard rolls. The dwarf points me towards a nearby lodge where he says the village chieftain will have more information about the mission at hand.

I walk through the quiet, idyllic village, which is decorated with immense wooden carvings of seabirds and angler fish. Lights dangle from the huts, casting a soft blue glow over the party and making our shadows dance as they bob in the wind. A rainstorm drifts in, drenching the village. I feel like I’m a million miles away from the Dyrwood, the leafy, forested setting from the first game. Eventually I find the chieftain’s lodge: an impressive structure, the largest in the village, elevated on a wooden frame and adorned with elegant, intricate decorations reminiscent of ancient Polynesian art.

Ruãnu, the chieftain, welcomes me with open arms. To him, foreign visitors are the key to Tikawara’s growth and survival. He tells me that Poko Kohara is ravaged by strange storms and urges me to investigate. As long as the storms rage, he says, visitors will no longer come to the island and trade with them. On the way back to my ship I stop in at the temple and speak to the priestess, Nairi—but there’s no warm welcome here. She tells me that foreign visitors will lead to the enslavement and exploitation of the Huana, and that she wants someone to destroy the tempting adra on Poko Kohara. With that gone, she thinks, explorers like the Vailians will have no reason to visit the island.

And so I’m presented with something of a moral quandary. This is an Obsidian RPG after all, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Do I deal with the storms and clear the way for explorers looking to harvest the adra, and in turn risk the exploitation of the Huana? Or do I destroy it and protect the tribe from outside influence? Firebeard is a wise man, but this will take some pondering. I leave Tikawara behind and set sail for the island. I can decide what to do when I get there, but the idealist in me says destroy the adra, keep the tribe safe, even if I do understand the chief's desire for his people to prosper.

I click on the world map to guide my ship across the ocean, carving through a wall of fog. I head due east until I see the landmass of Poko Kohara ahead, and an anchor icon indicating that I can disembark. And here I find the ruins where the Vailian expedition apparently vanished. The area is shrouded in a thick, oppressive fog, and ominous music begins to groan. An obelisk warns me, gravely, that the gods punish trespassers. But I push on into the fog regardless, battling desert wurms, whirling sand blights, and reptilian xaurips as I make the trip across the dunes towards the looming temple ruins.

I approach a vast stone gate, the entrance to the tomb, and suddenly a pile of rocks quivers with magical energy, forming the shape of a terrifying colossus. This titan is a remnant of the Engwithan empire, an ancient, mysterious civilization whose ruins litter Pillars’ world. As I battle the towering foe, it grabs party members and slams them into the stone below, doing considerable damage. Only Firebeard is left standing with a sliver of health when the colossus finally crumbles, and I make my way into the darkness of the ruins.

I’ll let you explore this dungeon for yourself when you play the game, but as well as fighting scarab beetles, giant spiders, and all manner of angry supernatural beings, I see murals on the walls depicting the Huana and the Engwithans, which is a nice bit of world-building. It reveals just how ancient the tribe is, although the Engwithans don’t come across particularly well in these fading pictographs. In one a Huana tribesman cowers beneath an Engwithan holding a sacrificial blade above him. I make my way through the maze-like, labyrinthine tomb and eventually stumble upon the tip of the luminous pillar of adra.

As I descend deeper into the dungeon, it becomes clear that the adra is corrupted. The lower parts have a tinge of red and have lost their glow, which leads me to a discovery that explains the source of the storms. Again, I’ll avoid spoilers, but I’m presented with a final moral choice, as well as a tough battle against, well, you’ll see. In the end I decide to destroy the adra, and when I do the storms subside. I decide that the Huana will be better off without the Vailians interfering in their lives, because if they can exploit the tribe for profit, they absolutely will—or, if not them, a similarly unscrupulous organisation. The chieftain won’t be happy, but Firebeard’s decision is final.

I return to Tikawara and the the news about the adra’s destruction has already reached the island. Ruãnu is furious, telling me that I’ve doomed and isolated his people. But the priestess Nairi is pleased, convincing the chieftain that the tribe will survive as they always have, alone. And if those 2,000-year-old murals in the temple are anything to go by, she’s probably right. I stock up on supplies and head back out to sea on my ship, wondering what my next adventure will be. I’m sure this decision will come back to haunt me later, as it often does in these games, but for now I feel like I’ve done the Huana a favour.

 

[Lacrymas]

Hey hey, actual PoE2 content!

I got excited there for a sec, I thought you meant ACTUAL PoE2 content, like an update or beta news or something that isn't a filler article from PCgamer...

 

[Cross]

I think I'm starting to notice a pattern with any preview of Deadfire's narrative:

searching for luminous adra

Adra is a precious crystalline substance

destroy the tempting adra

explorers looking to harvest the adra

the idealist in me says destroy the adra

luminous pillar of adra

the adra is corrupted

In the end I decide to destroy the adra

the news about the adra’s destruction

It's like they learned absolutely nothing from all the criticism of PoE's story.

 

[V_K]

Hey hey, actual PoE2 content!

I got excited there for a sec, I thought you meant ACTUAL PoE2 content, like an update or beta news or something that isn't a filler article from PCgamer...

Infi just meant that his post was actually related to PoE2 (and not DOS).

 

[aweigh]

i don't really care if the plot is another turd i just want an antagonist that isn't more than just text-dumps and companions that don't feel like third-tier bench-warmers from previous Obsi games, and my biggest hope: interesting NPCs that you want to talk to and who add flavor, mystery and ambiance to each place you visit instead of 90% of them just being fan-fics that eye-rape you if you click on them.

interesting quests too, sure, hopefully ones that don't feel like they were made solely to fill up some sort of checlist quota.

but even if none of that happens, i'll settle for interesting NPCs and companions.

 

[santino27]

i don't really care if the plot is another turd i just want an antagonist that isn't more than just text-dumps and companions that don't feel like third-tier bench-warmers from previous Obsi games, and my biggest hope: interesting NPCs that you want to talk to and who add flavor, mystery and ambiance to each place you visit instead of 90% of them just being fan-fics that eye-rape you if you click on them.

interesting quests too, sure, hopefully ones that don't feel like they were made solely to fill up some sort of checlist quota.

but even if none of that happens, i'll settle for interesting NPCs and companions.

Agree completely re: the villain. Unfortunately, I'm doubtful... Eothas animating a statue and stomping your castle feels more like natural disaster than the start of any sort of real hate/hate relationship. While I doubt he's the main viillain, what little we know of the rest of the game seems to hinge heavily on factions and colonialist vs. native tension which might be more conducive to social commentary and/or intellectual masturbation than to providing a solid hook and an enduring character to hate.

(Then again, we know so little about the story at this point, beyond how it starts. With luck, I will be wrong, and we'll get a much better, more compelling villain than in POE1.)

 

[Bonerbill]

I'm really hoping there isn't a main villain because that usually ends with a cliche story and final battle. i want them to go the new vegas approach and lets us decide who our antagonist is going to be.

 

[aweigh]

i think obsidian has proven they don't have a FNV in them anymore, and making compelling factions like that is insanely difficult and they were working with the Fallout framework in FNV so they already had something that impassioned them and had a great well from which to draw on... chances of them doing a FNV approach for PoE 2 and succeeding are very, very slim, though I eagerly await for them to prove me wrong, however, and would love it.