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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

Prime Junta

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well designed and working system like AD&D

LOLWUT

You can say a lot of things about AD&D but "well designed" is not one of them. It wasn't even designed at all in any reasonable sense of the word, it was a mashup of a big grab bag of house rules popular among the D&D scene at the time. It only worked at all because you were expected to pick which rules to apply in whichever campaign you're running -- which is what BG/2 also did.

(Speaking as someone who ran AD&D campaigns from the 1980's to the 2000's. I loved it to bits -- literally, my sourcebooks are falling to pieces, barely held together by packing tape -- but by Beelzebub is it ever an incoherent mess of incompatible systems flying in loose formation.)
 

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Developer-recommened area order: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84292-order-to-play-the-game-through/?p=1777169

Complete Act 1 (1v1 the bear, it is ones test to become a man/woman)

Progress through Act 2/Od Nua until character level 7

Enter the White March Pt.1 (no scaling)

Transition into the White March Pt. 2 (no scaling)

Return to Dyrford around level 11/12 to complete Act 2/Od Nua

Begin Act 3 (with scaling)

Complete the game

High five yourself for being so awesome

He says don't do all of Act 2's content, though. :M
 

J_C

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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Developer-recommened area order: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84292-order-to-play-the-game-through/?p=1777169

Complete Act 1 (1v1 the bear, it is ones test to become a man/woman)

Progress through Act 2/Od Nua until character level 7

Enter the White March Pt.1 (no scaling)

Transition into the White March Pt. 2 (no scaling)

Return to Dyrford around level 11/12 to complete Act 2/Od Nua

Begin Act 3 (with scaling)

Complete the game

High five yourself for being so awesome

He says don't do all of Act 2's content, though. :M
I would feel like a pussy if I had to follow a recommended road in an RPG. Half the fun is battling through levels which are for higher level characters. Also LOL if they still can't balance the XP gain and have to follow a specific road for the best challange.
 

Prime Junta

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Also LOL if they still can't balance the XP gain and have to follow a specific road for the best challange.

Name one cRPG with no level scaling and comparable scope + freedom to pick the order in which you do things, which doesn't have this problem.
 

Roguey

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Adding a midgame expansion will unavoidably unbalance the endgame regardless of how one tuned xp values.

Tales of the Sword Coast and Heart of Winter were really meant to be played after the base game (they both have content that's harder and loot that's better), but could be managed well enough with near-endgame characters. Doing so would result in changes to the final boss encounters (and additional boss encounters for IWD if you complete it early enough). Citing player completion statistics, Obsidian decided against a post/near-endgame expansion.
 
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I wish it was just that, but alas PoE loses pretty handily in almost every department except UI and Visuals

No, you're disregarding or not noticing certain non-UI, non-visual elements because "BG2 was fine without those things!". Other people wouldn't have that bias: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...checks-obsidian-cant-cash.99149/#post-3913884

(Coincidentally, an old friend of mine who likes RPGs but isn't a particular IE fanatic has just started playing PoE and he echoes some of the things I posted there, so I'm feeling pretty confident about this)

Yeah no, loot is miles better and there's no real argument about it, PoE items are boring as fuck. Mostly just a +2 sword of nothingness kind of stuff (that you can enchant and make everything exactly the same, yey) that was vendored 1 hour into BG2. There's no Celestial Fury, Chaos Blade and such. I went through vanilla PoE with the same blue crossbow that i found 30 minutes into the game (on the shore with that shaman chick, near the first homlet).

As far as character progression and mechanics go, PoE just has a watered down D&D. Not much else to add. Same thing with spells btw, more or less just a streamlined version of already existing D&D ones.

When you consider all of the things mentioned above, the word 'uninspired' comes to mind. Even writing and plot wise, I liked some parts, but overall I always had a feeling that I've seen it before. Even Defiance Bay is a poor man's Athkatla.
 

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
But you're not considering all of the things.You just have a list of all the ways the game isn't like BG2.
 

Prime Junta

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Yeah no, loot is miles better and there's no real argument about it, PoE items are boring as fuck. Mostly just a +2 sword of nothingness kind of stuff (that you can enchant and make everything exactly the same, yey) that was vendored 1 hour into BG2. There's no Celestial Fury, Chaos Blade and such. I went through vanilla PoE with the same blue crossbow that i found 30 minutes into the game (on the shore with that shaman chick, near the first homlet).

Getting a bit tired of this canard frankly. Maybe I should write that boilerplate I can paste in every time somebody squawks it.

True: Pillars has no über items like Crom Faeyr, Carsomyr, or Celestial Fury.
False: Pillars items are mostly "+2 sword of nothingness that you can enchant and make everything the same."

If you went through all of Pillars with the same crossbow, you missed out on an entire system. You never found out how to use Marking weapons to dramatically boost the power of your entire party, how to make crit-focused builds based around Hours of St. Rumbalt, Tall Grass, or Holdwall, how to make a ranger's pet hit like a panzer by synergising with Persistence, how to make a back-row paladin that can give 10 levels worth of extra combat ability to any party member at will by combining paladin abilities with St. Garam's Spark, and so on and so forth.

It's all there under your nose, and you completely missed it.
 

Parabalus

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I started with a new cipher for TWM2 and I'm really liking the additions, the stronghold quests fit in nicely and I noticed a bit reduced encounter density in the main areas ( To the point that TWM1 sticks out a bit).

I'm really liking how they :balance: the classes, it really feels like everyone has a place and I'm genuinely having a hard time deciding who to bring.



it only show how fucking retarded you are with your defense of PoE designs.



why would be there any? you already have weapons speed factor and number of attacks per round. mage have 1 attack per round warrior 5 per 2. who is attacking faster faggot? mabe the guy that spend his life swinging weapons ?

Answer me this. If Might in PoE is this retarded "Soul strength" concept and not simply how much you can lift than why all Might checks in game are just you showing your brute force and being fucking Pudzianowski?



this is so fucking stupid i am not even going to read the rest of you drivel. how would you train Accuracy for fucking magic energy? ffs you conjure a killing cloud or acid arrow or mind controll and you want to spend evenings targeting dummy with it? :roll: Yes, spells always hits thats why you have saving throws faggot:salute: Its not a fucking bow its a magic fireball that blows up everything in 20 feet radius. How would that work with enchantments ? "Oh no i missed his brain and hit his dick with my `hold person` spell. Now i gave him painful erection for 5 runds" :retarded:

You people worry too much about banal shit. The text adventures and specifically only Might is the sole eyesore, yes it would be nicer to replace all HULKSMASH lines with class specific lines, e.g. TELEKINESIS BITCH if you're a cipher , but who fucking cares.

Gameplaywise it's unquestionably better than the utterly boring DnD attributes in the IE games (mostly excluding PS:T obv.). You can dump everything without care, and MAYBE if you refuse to reroll you will feel strained with triple class, meaning that the only choice you can make is to consciously create a shitty character. PoE allows you to created a variety of lopsided characters with distinct advantages and disadvantages, especially since attributes are prominently featured in dialogue. This connects RP options and gameplay, something nonexistent in BG(what RP?).

I find having spell accuracy much more "realistic" than having the success of a spell be only based upon the receiving target(s). In the BGs the skill of the caster is irrelevant, every wizard regardless of level casts fireball the same way, that's just stupid. There sure as hell is a big difference between an archmage and an apprentice casting any spell. They changed that obvious flaw in later editions of DnD where you can increase your DCs in a variety of ways.

BTW, if anyone of you has had any success against Leyra on PotD with a lvl 6 party, share your wisdom. "Success" is defined as defeating her, even if very narrowly.

I managed to get her at level 5. Durance with mechanics knocked them down with seal, got lucky since she died before she got the AoE stun off.

LOLWUT

You can say a lot of things about AD&D but "well designed" is not one of them. It wasn't even designed at all in any reasonable sense of the word, it was a mashup of a big grab bag of house rules popular among the D&D scene at the time. It only worked at all because you were expected to pick which rules to apply in whichever campaign you're running -- which is what BG/2 also did.

(Speaking as someone who ran AD&D campaigns from the 1980's to the 2000's. I loved it to bits -- literally, my sourcebooks are falling to pieces, barely held together by packing tape -- but by Beelzebub is it ever an incoherent mess of incompatible systems flying in loose formation.)

People put the BG DnD system way too much on a pedestal, it is shit compared to a lot of others we have ( specifically PoE).

They falsely attribute the richness of combat options to it, while that is derived mainly from encounter variety, powerful unique items ( a big failing point of PoE before TWM) and being very easy on Normal/Core.

Only enemy spellcasters are a real threat and you always in essence do the same whack-a-mole dance of True Sight-Strip-Kill, but since you have so much leeway you can do substantial variations and still succeed (and have a ton of fun doing so). On SCS/Insane you have way less choice but the fun shifts to stemming from the challenge, PoE(PotD) stands somewhere in the middle from the get-go.

Developer-recommened area order: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84292-order-to-play-the-game-through/?p=1777169



He says don't do all of Act 2's content, though. :M

Something seems off about that list XP-wise though. I finished TWM1 without stepping into Caed Nua or finishing Act 2 and I'm hitting level 12 soon.

Adding a midgame expansion will unavoidably unbalance the endgame regardless of how one tuned xp values.

Tales of the Sword Coast and Heart of Winter were really meant to be played after the base game (they both have content that's harder and loot that's better), but could be managed well enough with near-endgame characters. Doing so would result in changes to the final boss encounters (and additional boss encounters for IWD if you complete it early enough). Citing player completion statistics, Obsidian decided against a post/near-endgame expansion.

The way they did it is pretty good, the scaling is kinda gamey but it really gives you flexibility, I doubt anyone would mind if they made it automatic ( obvious Bethesda comparisons aside) .

If you're playing with a high-level party the battle is pretty easy. If you get less allies you'll likely have to face more enemies but they shouldn't be hard to manage.
The CYOA section of the battle is cool, though.

Inviato dal mio D5803 utilizzando Tapatalk

How much can you do with it? I only had the Doemenels and was told my army was getting decimated so I charged straight for the guy. Probably got more loot this way too.

But you're not considering all of the things.You just have a list of all the ways the game isn't like BG2.

I pity all these people who can't enjoy a great game because they are crippled with rose-tinted nostalgia.
 

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Re: becoming overlevelled

Could be. For the ultimate BALANCE, maybe they could have some kind of total amount of experience that you can earn per-area or per-act, with diminishing returns for each quest. Finish one quest, you get 33% of the total amount, finish two, you get 50%, etc.
 
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Getting a bit tired of this canard frankly. Maybe I should write that boilerplate I can paste in every time somebody squawks it.

True: Pillars has no über items like Crom Faeyr, Carsomyr, or Celestial Fury.
False: Pillars items are mostly "+2 sword of nothingness that you can enchant and make everything the same."

If you went through all of Pillars with the same crossbow, you missed out on an entire system. You never found out how to use Marking weapons to dramatically boost the power of your entire party, how to make crit-focused builds based around Hours of St. Rumbalt, Tall Grass, or Holdwall, how to make a ranger's pet hit like a panzer by synergising with Persistence, how to make a back-row paladin that can give 10 levels worth of extra combat ability to any party member at will by combining paladin abilities with St. Garam's Spark, and so on and so forth.

It's all there under your nose, and you completely missed it.

My argument is not about variety of builds, but about how boring loot is. System or not, I didn't find anything better than said blue xbow. Enchanting is boring as hell. It's like comparing Skyrim loot to Morrowind.

But you're not considering all of the things.You just have a list of all the ways the game isn't like BG2.

That was my initial point anyway, it is inferior to an old ass game. A lot of things are worse than they should be, all things considering. Either come up with a new system or improve an existing one. They watered it down. All there is to it.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
My argument is not about variety of builds, but about how boring loot is. System or not, I didn't find anything better than said blue xbow. Enchanting is boring as hell. It's like comparing Skyrim loot to Morrowind.

The only thing you can make by enchanting your blue crossbow is a better blue crossbow with elemental damage + slaying.

You can't craft weapons that give +10 accuracy to an ally, cause DoT, knockdown on crit, drain endurance, have +6 accuracy when attacking same enemy as party member, have a higher attack rate, have armor piercing etc. etc. You can find them, and improve them.

That stuff is objectively there. What you're saying is objectively and demonstrably not true. If you missed it, you weren't paying attention.
 

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
What's wrong with having the possibility to be overlevelled?
It makes you feel like you accomplished something.
Best example: Gothic.
Depends on the structure of the game. In a linear act-based game it's bad if an entire act can be trivialized. Open world with all sorts of badass enemies scattered around is something else.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
What's wrong with having the possibility to be overlevelled?
It makes you feel like you accomplished something.
Best example: Gothic.

I usually get bored and stop playing if combat becomes a complete cakewalk and the story isn't interesting enough to keep going. That's why I've only finished BG2 once or twice.
 

MediantSamuel

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Does anybody have a White March part 1 ready save game they could upload for me?

I kind of want to see if it's any better than the base game but I don't want to replay said base game to find out. :(
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Does anybody have a White March part 1 ready save game they could upload for me?

I kind of want to see if it's any better than the base game but I don't want to replay said base game to find out. :(

Switch to story mode, rush through to Act 2, switch to the difficulty of your choice, play WM. Takes about a half an hour. (You'll need the console to use PotD though I think.)
 

Rev

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If you're playing with a high-level party the battle is pretty easy. If you get less allies you'll likely have to face more enemies but they shouldn't be hard to manage.
The CYOA section of the battle is cool, though.

Inviato dal mio D5803 utilizzando Tapatalk

How much can you do with it? I only had the Doemenels and was told my army was getting decimated so I charged straight for the guy. Probably got more loot this way too.
I had the Crucible Knights and another ally from TWM1, but I was told that the battle wasn't going that well.
Then Gathbin's reinforcements arrived and betrayed him because I spared his captain earlier and we completely annihilated his army, until Lord Gathbin demanded a duel and I killed him and his last men (I could also let my soldiers deal with him, I think).
 

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