Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[tdphys]

I pity all these people who can't enjoy a great game because they are crippled with rose-tinted nostalgia.

You sir, get my first brofist ...

 

[Zetor]

Also LOL if they still can't balance the XP gain and have to follow a specific road for the best challange.

Name one cRPG with no level scaling and comparable scope + freedom to pick the order in which you do things, which doesn't have this problem.

I can think of quite a few older games that pulled this off: Wizardry 7, Exile 3, etc. Underrail too, if you're looking for a newer example. You could argue that when doing the content balanced for a certain power level in these games, the first area/quest/whatever will be challenging, while the subsequent ones get easier and easier... thing is, though, when you hit the next tier of content (such as moving on to the Golems area in Exile 3), you'll suddenly face challenging content again, and the cycle repeats. Based on what I've been reading (correct me if I'm wrong) this doesn't hold for PoE with WM anymore, ie. if you do all side content in act 1/2, you breeze through the rest of the game, expansion included, even if you're playing PotD... and you actively need to skip content to keep the game challenging. That, to my mind, is a design flaw.

It comes back to the argument about completionism destroying the game's challenge because of character power from sidequest/area xp&loot spiralling out of control and the game being unable to compensate for that (you need to balance for players who only do the critical path, after all). Sure, there are a few side encounters that are really difficult (bottom of the megadungeon), but honestly the rest of the game should be balanced in a way to provide at least some segments of challenge throughout, no matter how much sidequesting the player did early on... at least on POTD. I don't really mind scaling to accomplish this, or even a hard xp cap for each chapter (content should still be worthwhile to do because of loot and other lateral advancement).

How does the post-WM scaling work in POE? Is it BG2-like (different enemy types) or does it scale up enemy stats? How much does an encounter's challenge depend on being overleveled/underleveled, as compared to an IE game?

 

[Roguey]

The fuck? Should I give the game a blowjob as well?

Unity plus yuge background images, whaddya gonna do

 

[Infinitron]

Unity plus yuge background images, whaddya gonna do

The long load times aren't mainly about backgrounds, they're about the gameplay data that accrues as you progress through the game and how the game handles it. You can look at the savegame file sizes and see how load times reach critical mass when they hit over 3 megabytes or so

 

[AwesomeButton]

I managed to get her at level 5. Durance with mechanics knocked them down with seal, got lucky since she died before she got the AoE stun off.

I succeeded myself a bit after I wrote the question. I managed to shoot a Crackling Bolt in such a way that it ricocheted twice through all four knights, leaving only two of them alive. From then on, it wasn't that hard. But it was kind of a lucky one.

 

[Excidium II]

Unity plus yuge background images, whaddya gonna do

The long load times aren't mainly about backgrounds, they're about the gameplay data that accrues as you progress through the game and how the game handles it. You can look at the savegame file sizes and see how load times reach critical mass when they hit over 3 megabytes or so

Could be worse...http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...awakens-released.105387/page-223#post-4391557

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

I find having spell accuracy much more "realistic" than having the success of a spell be only based upon the receiving target(s). In the BGs the skill of the caster is irrelevant, every wizard regardless of level casts fireball the same way, that's just stupid. There sure as hell is a big difference between an archmage and an apprentice casting any spell. They changed that obvious flaw in later editions of DnD where you can increase your DCs in a variety of ways.

Fireball is basic damage spell in IE games : This spell creates an explosive burst of flame dealing 1d6 damage per each level of caster up to 10d6

No difference at all between 2nd lvl mage casting it from a scroll and mage lvl 10th right?

You have spells like Dispel Magic where casters lvl makes difference between success and failure.

FFS there is huge difference between low lvl mage casting his single magic missile and Archmage releasing sequencers full of max out Magic Missiles. But i guess reading spell description is beyond your comprehension. Apparently 1d6 is too difficult better just have Sawyers +5% damage and +2% casting speed. Muh archmage

 

[Drudkh]

Avoid making too many different save files and invest in a solid state drive.

Actually, one can't avoid having excessive and unwanted save files because the game automatically "auto-saves" singular game saves constantly that the consumer would have to go behind the game and delete them constantly. It's total rubbish.

Btw, Roguey, i'm curious how you've been enjoying the game now that it has concluded production? You've been defending it alot without having played it much. (supposedly) The wait is over because it's out and finished; considering that you've been pretty even with your comments on it thus far, i'm interested to see if you like it.

 

[Infinitron]

Roguey's latest excuse for not playing the game is that the DRM-free patch isn't out yet.

 

[Roguey]

Actually, one can't avoid having excessive and unwanted save files because the game automatically "auto-saves" singular game saves constantly that the consumer would have to go behind the game and delete them constantly. It's total rubbish.

Btw, Roguey, i'm curious how you've been enjoying the game now that it has concluded production? You've been defending it alot without having played it much. (supposedly) The wait is over because it's out and finished; considering that you've been pretty even with your comments on it thus far, i'm interested to see if you like it.

Huh there's no "disable autosave" option, what an oversight.

The least they could have done was make something like 3-5 rotating autosaves. Rotating autosaves ftw

I want the final "we're not supporting this any more" patch for the disc version I've already installed.

 

[Infinitron]

The least they could have done was make something like 3-5 rotating autosaves. Rotating autosaves ftw

Rotating autosaves were added in Patch 2.0.

 

[Ninjerk]

Roguey's latest excuse for not playing the game is that the DRM-free patch isn't out yet.

I don't see eye-to-eye with you on a few things, but I'll be damned if you don't hoover up the latest news.

 

[Rev]

Just finished TWM2. I liked it and it has definetely a stronger focus on story than TWM1, so storyfags who felt the first part was too thin on the narrative side should be happier here. The themes and dialogues in the second half of the expansion are very interesting, although I feel they should've been more reinforced by the other quests, companions (aside from Maneha, whose quest is short and not flesh out enough, following the tradition of PoE's companion quests) and NPCs to help you have a more defined stance on the subjects.
It was nice to see more reactivity in the expansions than in the vanilla version, there's still room for improvements but it's a footstep in the right direction and we can hope they aim higher in PoE2. Also, they've improved the stealth sections (guards have basic routines and don't just stand on their spot doing nothing as in the OC, and in a specific area the game took into account whether it was night or day: if you sneak your way in the night there will be fewer guards as the other will be sleeping, making it much easier to avoid enemies) so that it's possible to avoid most of the mobs.
All in all, it's a good expansion pack which addresses some of the flaws of the original game, although it won't change the mind of those who really didn't like it.

 

[CptMace]

although it won't change the mind of those who really didn't like it.

Of course it won't, the design philosophy and implementation is the prime grief of people who can't bear poe and this will never change, not even in the sequel.

Talking about the sequel, I wonder how they'll manage not to follow BG2's path to powergamingfest. I mean, there's already a bunch of dragons, a champion of the god of death and a damn renown archmage. inb4 you get to slain every god you want in PoE2, because awesome, because it's been established they're very mortal, and because there's frankly not much else more exciting than dragons and archmages.

 

[Dorateen]

Sounds like Elminage Gothic…. And every quality computer role-playing game franchise I’ve played through.

 

[Infinitron]

I don't know about "any god you want", but fighting Woedica seems like a likely endpoint to the PoE saga. (of course they could do other Eora games after that)

 

[CptMace]

Fighting Woedica sure, but I'm pretty certain they'll let the player free to try any other god. It would be the perfect occasion to design some badass moments. Make 'em optional so you can get a cannon version where they're unharmed and here you go.

 

[Zetor]

Speaking of challenge levels... what level do people typically do the act 2 faction missions at? (potd)

I'm trying to avoid getting overleveled by just following the main questline; worked ok until the Dozen fuckers sent me to a dungeon that is apparently ghost lighthouse 2.0. The 2 cean gwla + 4 spectre + shades + shadows group destroyed my level 5 party over and over -- had to pull out all the stops with consumables and whatnot (thank cthulhu for fear immunity scrolls), and it still took a lot of tries.

edit: a stealthed look at the next room reveals... more shades and cean gwla. [heavy breathing]

 

[AwesomeButton]

Speaking of challenge levels... what level do people typically do the act 2 faction missions at? (potd)

I'm trying to avoid getting overleveled by just following the main questline; worked ok until the Dozen fuckers sent me to a dungeon that is apparently ghost lighthouse 2.0. The 2 cean gwla + 4 spectre + shades + shadows group destroyed my level 5 party over and over -- had to pull out all the stops with consumables and whatnot (thank cthulhu for fear immunity scrolls), and it still took a lot of tries.

edit: a stealthed look at the next room reveals... more shades and cean gwla. [heavy breathing]

That should be around level 6-7. If you do all the quests inside Defiance Bay, without going to Dyrford, and you've done all the quests in Act I, you should reach level 8 with a 6-member party (XP is divided equally between party members) by the time you've finished everything in Defiance Bay.

The trick with Cean Gwla and Shades (which spawn Shadows) is to have your party have its backs against a wall if possible, so that you don't get flanked by the spawning Shadows or by teleporting Shades.

When you're facing Cean Gwla, it's important to cast Durance's Prayer Against Fear - lvl 1 spell, and Prayer Against Restraint - lvl 3 spell. Cean Gwla are nasty because they use Wail to cause a Stuck affliction which drops your Deflection, and then you get beat up by the other spirits. Also, I think Cean Gwla have a chance to cause Terrified affliction on each melee hit they do to you, and they had another ability which was causing mass Terrified affliction. The two priest spells should give you 30-something seconds of immunity from both of these afflictions.

- Use Flame damage against spirits, they have lower DR against that type of damage. If you have access to Shining Beacon - lvl 4 Priest spell, that works very well against spirits.
- Equip armors that have the highest DR vs Freeze damage.
- Possibly use potions to raise the Accuracy of the guys who you will use to cast Flame damage-dealing spells/scrolls.
- Use Durance's Instill Doubt to lower the enemies' accuracy.
- Use Bulwark Against the elements potions (you should be able to craft a couple), to raise your DR vs Freeze damage by 15, making you nigh-invincible - the Shades and Shadows deal only Freeze damage with their melee attacks.
- Concentrate fire on the Shades. When a Shade dies, its Shadows disappear with it.
- By now you should have found this sword. Since Eder comes proficient in swords, this will give him a nice bonus to Accuracy against spirits at the cost of 3 Will, which you can easily offset with some (Minor) Cloak/Ring of Protection, or with some buff to Will in some other form - spell, potion. Actually, if you use those Priest spells, you should have immunity to the attacks vs Will that Cean Gwla make anyway.

 

[Infinitron]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/84359-great-music/

Thank you guys for the compliment. Glad you like it. For what it's worth sp3cw4r, Caed Nua is one of my least favorite tracks as well. I like the beginning kinda (wish I could fix some things), I like the end, but the middle part makes me antsy for some reason.

Ok back to the topic at hand. To be frank, I have lots of regrets about the way combat music was handled. But we did the best we could in the amount of time we had. If I ever get the chance for a do-over, you can bet there will be a fresh approach.

Thanks! Honestly who knows what we're going to do next? Several folks from Obsidian mentioned the desire to do a sequel in the past, but in truth we're really just focused on the recent release of the White March Part II.

As for what I'd do differently? Good question, not sure off the top of my head. I'll have to think about it some more. A lot of the things I'd want to change have to do with tech. The audio team came on the project later than the rest of the team and we didn't have much time to introduce new audio features into the game. That ship had sailed, or so the saying goes. If I could go back in time I'd make sure we had some more features to help us make the game. It would have been hard to know then what I know now though, so I'm not sure the outcome could have been any different.

The bottom line though is that you folks liked the game. We made it for you, so if you're happy we are too

 

[Zetor]

Speaking of challenge levels... what level do people typically do the act 2 faction missions at? (potd)

I'm trying to avoid getting overleveled by just following the main questline; worked ok until the Dozen fuckers sent me to a dungeon that is apparently ghost lighthouse 2.0. The 2 cean gwla + 4 spectre + shades + shadows group destroyed my level 5 party over and over -- had to pull out all the stops with consumables and whatnot (thank cthulhu for fear immunity scrolls), and it still took a lot of tries.

edit: a stealthed look at the next room reveals... more shades and cean gwla. [heavy breathing]

That should be around level 6-7. If you do all the quests inside Defiance Bay, without going to Dyrford, and you've done all the quests in Act I, you should reach level 8 with a 6-member party (XP is divided equally between party members) by the time you've finished everything in Defiance Bay.

The trick with Cean Gwla and Shades (which spawn Shadows) is to have your party have its backs against a wall if possible, so that you don't get flanked by the spawning Shadows or by teleporting Shades.

When you're facing Cean Gwla, it's important to cast Durance's Prayer Against Fear - lvl 1 spell, and Prayer Against Restraint - lvl 3 spell. Cean Gwla are nasty because they use Wail to cause a Stuck affliction which drops your Deflection, and then you get beat up by the other spirits. Also, I think Cean Gwla have a chance to cause Terrified affliction on each melee hit they do to you, and they had another ability which was causing mass Terrified affliction. The two priest spells should give you 30-something seconds of immunity from both of these afflictions.

- Use Flame damage against spirits, they have lower DR against that type of damage. If you have access to Shining Beacon - lvl 4 Priest spell, that works very well against spirits.
- Equip armors that have the highest DR vs Freeze damage.
- Possibly use potions to raise the Accuracy of the guys who you will use to cast Flame damage-dealing spells/scrolls.
- Use Durance's Instill Doubt to lower the enemies' accuracy.
- Use Bulwark Against the elements potions (you should be able to craft a couple), to raise your DR vs Freeze damage by 15, making you nigh-invincible - the Shades and Shadows deal only Freeze damage with their melee attacks.
- Concentrate fire on the Shades. When a Shade dies, its Shadows disappear with it.
- By now you should have found this sword. Since Eder comes proficient in swords, this will give him a nice bonus to Accuracy against spirits at the cost of 3 Will, which you can easily offset with some (Minor) Cloak/Ring of Protection, or with some buff to Will in some other form - spell, potion. If you use those Priest spells actually, you should have immunity to the attacks vs Will that Cean Gwla make anyway.

Yea, I figured out the way to deal with them after a few tries (bait out group with tank, summon a throwaway critter to hold the line with everyone backing up at arbalest / wand range until they use their aoe stun, then move a bit closer to attack), and positioned my group at a bottleneck just outside the room with everyone hanging way back at the start to avoid getting 'aggro'... the biggest problem was actually hitting the things, since my group doesn't have many good options. Even when not feared, I had less than 30%ish hit chance on my monk and paladin, and neither of them have problems hitting anything else (high perception, using all the accuracy boosts I can, etc). Moving anyone that's not the tank into melee range is a no-no (though my monk has the anti-ghost sword), ditto with summoning fodder -- it can backfire badly when the 4 enemy spectres choose that cue to teleport past my tank and murder the backline. My custom party of fighter/monk/paladin/chanter/cipher/druid has no priest spells, so I have to rely on fear immunity scrolls instead (used 2), and my tank also used a few fire scrolls on the banshees. I stole Eder's armor that's pretty decent against frost, but fine platemail/brigandine seems to be better overall.

MVPs were cipher (have to spend the start of the encounter sniping some easy-to-hit shadows to pool focus, then burn it with the level 3 "death beam between you and a party member" spell... works very well against the banshees) and druid (level 1 and level 2 both have very good fire AOE spells that are basically autohit). Monk was relegated to 'beat up the small stuff that breaks away from the group' duty. Chanter kept summoning the ghost to stun the small fry for my cipher to build up focus on. Paladin used the "mark target" ability on the first banshee and focused it down from range with my tank rotating knockdowns on it while also keeping the tank alive, then helped the others deal with the small fry. Oh yeah, I also found some ring that does extra burning damage when the target is hit, that did some good work as well combined with sunbeam spam. I also tried out the druid version of the spell, but they kept fully resisting it each time.

Overall it was an interesting challenge, though most of the issue was actually getting good hit% on the things: attacking them with my monk or paladin when they weren't CC'd was a lost cause with the crap hit chances, even if they had fear immunity and neither of them were blinded or otherwise debuffed... is that the level difference? Maybe I should load up on those +accuracy potions, though they don't seem to last long enough. The shades/shadows were trivial (I actually liked it when they decided to teleport into the group, because my cipher could actually generate focus) and the spectres mostly stayed put until the end thanks to the bottleneck. Resting in advance to get +10% hit chance on spirits probably would've made things easier, but I don't rest until the group is near dead and out of almost every option dammit /grumpytroll

 

[Infinitron]

Being able to hold out for a long time but not actually being able to inflict much damage is generally a sign that you're underlevelled, yes.

It can be a bit confusing because in many RPGs an enemy that outlevels you will invariably wipe you out quickly, leading one to think that they are at the right level and are just doing something wrong if they manage to survive for a long time.

 

[AwesomeButton]

At level 5 your guys have relatively low base Accuracy, so I see what you mean. The Shadows, Shades and Cean Gwla all have pretty high Defenses. Especially the Cean Gwla, that's a 9th level enemy you're taking on with a lvl 5 party In those cases, I'd look for spells that lower their defenses first.

Even when not feared, I had less than 30%ish hit chance on my monk and paladin, and both of them have very high PER

Something I'd recommend is always try to flank an enemy, for the Flanked effect of -10 deflection. Perception only gives one Accuracy per point, while talents and buffs raise it by more, but I'm sure you know that anyway. The Paladin has this nice talent (Coordinated Attacks) that gives +10 accuracy to party members attacking the same target as the paladin, but I think the paladin gets access to that at level 6 (the PoE wiki wrongly shows this as level 9).

I stole Eder's armor that's pretty decent against frost, but fine platemail/brigandine seems to be better overall.

BTW, if you don't mind the difference in 4DR from the Fine Brigantine, you can equip Fine Hide Armor instead and save half the recovery penalty - 25% instead of the brigandine's 50%. The Fine Brigandine has 12DR vs Freeze, and the Fine Hide has 9.

 

[Renfri]

Started second playthrough now that second part of expansion was released, and after all patching and stuff, I still found bug in Gilded Vale.

Spoiler

Mill Drama quest. After listening yelling part I went to meet dwarf & Co who were outside before going inside the Mill. I was hoping they would order me to kill hippies inside Mill, and after talking trio first, it turns out that if I now talk to Mill dude or trio in the Inn, nothing happens.

 

[Zetor]

At level 5 your guys have relatively low base Accuracy, so I see what you mean. The Shadows, Shades and Cean Gwla all have pretty high Defenses. Especially the Cean Gwla, that's a 9th level enemy you're taking on with a lvl 5 party In those cases, I'd look for spells that lower their defenses first.

Especially when there's two of them AND a full retinue of spectres! Shit was nastier than the big bad of Caed Nua (on hard, natch). Still, it was somewhat fun trying to figure out a way to beat those blobs of ectoplasm and quickloading as soon as it looked like the encounter was becoming unwinnable.

Thanks both of you for the info/tips about to-hit chances and whatnot, btw! The group doesn't have any problems hitting enemies normally, so I figured the banshees were super hard to hit due to being incorporeal. I think the second ghost room is skippable... otherwise - or if there's another two-banshee encounter - I'll probably just backtrack and follow up on the other half of the main quest until I hit level 6 at least.