Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[IHaveHugeNick]

Act 2 railroaded finale is a total boner killer. You put in all that work balancing different factions, and in the end none if it matters. The game never picks up after this.

 

[Infinitron]

Well it did not last as i dropped the game shortly after act 2...

Not a bad game at all but something is definitively wrong with it IMO. I think it may mostly be the setting (boring locations, boring town) and still too much linear to my taste.

All you have to do after that is go do a quest for one out four groups of gods, and then you can jump right into the endgame. Ironically it's a pretty non-linear act.

 

[Metal Hurlant]

I'm disappointed in all you guys who didn't finish it. I can't be the only mug who didn't like this game and continued to trudge through this steaming pile of disappointment just to see how it all ended.

 

[Endlösung]

The kike finished it seven times.

 

[Sannom]

He doesn't have the hat and I don't think the Leaden Key has a standard uniform except for the mask.

 

[Sizzle]

Act 2 railroaded finale is a total boner killer. You put in all that work balancing different factions, and in the end none if it matters. The game never picks up after this.

the part that annoys me is that he is still dressed like a member of the leaden keywhen he walks in. imagine that scene in the dark knight where the joker tries to kill gordon by dressing up as a police officer and change it so t hat the joker just walks up to the podium from the middle of the street and shoots at him

The scene wasn't bad because of the way he was dressed - it was the entire execution of it that sucked.

The way he casually strolls in, and drops to his knees - and no one, in a heavily guarded throneroom full of people who are mistrustful of each other - is even slightly suspicious of this was the most idiotic thing in the entire game for me.

"OMG, the Duc got assassinated!" - "You don't think it had anything to do with that weird dude who's kneeling and chanting in the back aisle, do you?" - "...nah, he was probably a janitor."

 

[Rev]

So I started playing PoE again from the start. I gotta say, it's definitely a better experience this time around, not that I vehemently hated the game at release either (like most), but it certaintly had alooot of shortcomings, mostly noticeably the combat.

Enjoying myself so far, and I guess the story is what it is.. somehow it draws me in more, perhaps because combat is less of a clusterfuck than before. The constant exposition is the same (shit) but once you ignore that, the game flows quite well.

I'm not sure if I should get White March or not... is it really worth it? I mean the extra story and quests, compared to the main quest? Hmmm.. I can get it for like 10 euro for PART I and II at cdkeys. Hummm

They made some good improvements to the area and quest design in the expansions (there is more room for stealth and non-lethal solutions, instead of just having to clear the dungeons of all enemies). They included more of the CYOA segments and also enhance them (you can use spells and talents in some interactions, for example).
They also put some reactivity, nothing ground-breaking but your choices in TWM1 (for example) will have some different outcomes in TWM2, whereas in the base game reactivity was a bit lacking.
Other than that, TWM1 is not heavily focused on the narrative side and is more focused on combat, exploration and dungeon crawling, while TWM2 is the opposite (although you can have a lot of fights if you want to) and explores some of the lore, especially the relationships between some gods and their views.

If you like the game, you should like the expansions as well: TWM has a better pacing and is definetely an improvement on the gameplay side. If you are not totally convinced by the game, you won't probably change your mind with TWM, though.

 

[Sizzle]

also i feel like it would be in everyones best interests to arrest the dude?

and then have a trial?

Well, the Dozen losing their shit when the Duc got whacked was pretty much a given - they're the most anti-animancy faction in the game. So that part at least is logical.

 

[Sizzle]

Rev You forgot to add that they actually patched in better pacing by removing some mobs in some areas due to player complaints of tedium.

also i feel like it would be in everyones best interests to arrest the dude?

and then have a trial?

Well, the Dozen losing their shit when the Duc got whacked was pretty much a given - they're the most anti-animancy faction in the game. So that part at least is logical.

True! But the Dozens leader says "NO! AVENGE THE DUC!" So it always felt weird to me. Also because this was in the playthrough where I made the Duc pro-animancy, so if I was the dozens leader I would have been like "oh well there you have it, even if it was gonna be legal, these people are lunatics."

That part makes perfect sense - the Dozen are hotblooded, jingoistic, and just aching for an excuse to smash the patriarchy animancy.

But the Duc's "ruling" never made much sense to me, because no matter even if he ruled in favor of animancy, he was (at least to the public's eye) assassinated by a respected animancer in a coup.

I get that they had to put in some Defiance Bay end slide reactivity modifiers somewhere, but here it seems that animancy would be screwed no matter what the Duc said mere seconds before his death.

 

[AwesomeButton]

At the time the Duc is assassinated, he hasn't taken any part in the game's story, the player hasn't even seen him in person, and he means absolutely nothing to the player. What is supposed to feel shocking here? The quality of the writing makes it impossible to warm-up the player and raise his interest in advance of first meeting the Duc. The player ends up not caring one bit about the Duc's assassination. Just one more in-engine cutscene where there is some dialogue and someone is killed at the end.

 

[Sizzle]

At the time the Duc is assassinated, he hasn't taken any part in the game's story, the player hasn't even seen him in person, and he means absolutely nothing to the player. What is supposed to feel shocking here? The quality of the writing makes it impossible to warm-up the player and raise his interest in advance of first meeting the Duc. The player ends up not caring one bit about the Duc's assassination. Just one more in-engine cutscene where there is some dialogue and someone is killed at the end.

Not quality of the writing per se - like you said, the player hasn't met the Duc before, all he has to go on is what Madame Web said about him ("Oh, he's a swell guy, really knows his stuff!"). No writing, no matter how good, would make you feel sympathy for a figure you haven't met, and who isn't directly involved in the plot.

Even NWN 2 did it better with Lord Asher, pompous ass that he was, you at least get to see him a couple of times. With Duc Aevar, all you have is other characters name-dropping him.

For his oh-so-shocking "twist" to mean anything, you first had to make the player care - if not for the character himself, then at least about what he could do for you.

Unfortunately, that's a common theme in PoE - they laid the groundwork of interesting backstory, but just couldn't tie it together. From what other characters said about him, I was looking forward to meeting the Duc - a common man ascended to rulership, who is respected by all sides for his ability to understand and navigate most problems, both form a high and lowborn perspective. All well and good enough, could be fun. And then you meet him. And instead of an interesting, multi-faceted character, you get a short watered-down version of the Trial scene from NWN 2, after which the power of a plot-mandated cutscene takes over, and you're left there standing on the balcony like a dunce.

 

[Infinitron]

The Duc obviously doesn't and isn't meant to matter as a character in his own right. It's about the fate of the city and animancy, etc.

 

[Delterius]

I think that's part of the problem. Even characters that have more to do with the plot could really use some more development, like Lady Web.

 

[Sizzle]

It's about the fate of the city and animancy, etc.

A bad way to go about it. No matter even if the Duc rules in favor of animancy, he is, at least as far as the public (and nobility) are concerned, assassinated by an animancer in the middle of his speech.

That would be akin to a king signing some sort of treaty and getting poisoned making a toast to said treaty right after. Would the treaty still stand? Probably not.

Really dislike that entire scene, one of the absolute weakest parts of the game.

 

[Infinitron]

That would be akin to a king signing some sort of treaty and getting poisoned making a toast to said treaty right after. Would the treaty still stand? Probably not.

The Sanitarium does get burned down no matter what you do. This is how the ending explains it, in case you forgot: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Endings#Animancy

The duc's assassination at the apparent hands of an animancer had caused catastrophic rioting in the streets of Defiance Bay, but those who had escaped the melee in the palace hearings remembered the testimonies of the strange guest who had shown up that day and absolved animancy, implicating the Leaden Key instead.

The rumor spread quickly, and soon the popular belief was that the assassin had been a Leaden Key spy.

When the Legacy had lifted, people came to see it not as a sign that the riots had been according to the gods' wishes, as Thaos had hoped, but as a confirmation that animancy had never been the source of the problem in the first place.

Dyrwoodans instead convinced themselves that the riots had somehow purged Defiance Bay of Leaden Key spies, and that the end of Waidwen's Legacy was their well-deserved reward.

The rage against animancers was quickly forgotten, and those who had survived were permitted to return to Brackenbury Sanitarium and rebuild it so they might resume their studies.

I guess this could have been executed with more detail by giving you the option to tell somebody about the Leaden Key agents hiding under the ruined temple of Woedica or something.

 

[Sizzle]

That would be akin to a king signing some sort of treaty and getting poisoned making a toast to said treaty right after. Would the treaty still stand? Probably not.

The Sanitarium does get burned down no matter what you do. This is how the ending explains it, in case you forgot: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Endings#Animancy

Didn't forget, and I'm not arguing against that, but against it being tied to what the Duc said seconds before he died.

Reprisals were a given, but the fate of animancy should have been decided in other quests, not with "Well, you could tell the Duc really seemed into/against it before they killed him." series of answers you give at the hearing.

 

[LESS T_T]

Sawyer going GDC Europe (August 15-16 at Cologne, Germany): http://schedule.gdceurope.com/session/looking-back-and-moving-forward-with-pillars-of-eternity

Looking Back and Moving Forward with Pillars of Eternity

'Pillars of Eternity' is a crowdfunded PC RPG with its roots in 'Baldur's Gate', 'Icewind Dale', and 'Planescape: Torment'. Creating a spiritual successor to such beloved games after more than a decade presented a number of challenges. This talk looks at several of these problems and examines how the team at Obsidian attempted to achieve a classic look and feel while accounting for contemporary design sensibilities. The session will also show what Obsidian learned from its successes and failures and how the team plans to apply those lessons in the future.

Takeaway
Attendees will gain insights into the benefits and pitfalls of making a "retro classic", especially for a crowdfunding audience that is emotionally (and financially) invested from the start of the project. Special emphasis will be given to feeling and its significance to players.

Intended Audience
This talk will benefit anyone involved in the creation of retro classic / "old school" games as well as people involved in working with an active community of crowdfunding backers. The lecture will use RPG terms, but will not require deep RPG knowledge.

Looks more general post-mortem talk than the attributes talk.

 

[Infinitron]

Not just that. It sounds like it might have PoE2 details.

 

[LESS T_T]

Yeah, sounds like it.

Oh, and he surely updated his profile:

Josh Sawyer | Design Director, Obsidian Entertainment

 

[Roguey]

Attendees will gain insights into the benefits and pitfalls of making a "retro classic", especially for a crowdfunding audience that is emotionally (and financially) invested from the start of the project.

Benefit: some guy will send in more, better QA feedback than the QA people you're actually paying

Pitfall: he will lose his mind and completely turn against you when it turns out you weren't making the game he wanted

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Benefit: some guy will send in more, better QA feedback than the QA people you're actually paying

Pitfall: he will lose his mind and completely turn against you when it turns out you weren't making the game he wanted

 

[Sensuki]

An insight that definitely won't be included in the talk

 

[Daedalos]

So I finally finished this.

I kind of liked it, I guess. Questions of faith, believeability in humans and in yourself instead of relying on external forces to guide you through life. Questions that are upon us today and always has been.

Just never understood how the Engwith could build those machines, and how man created gods were created from that many souls, like did it just emerge when there was enough?

I found it interesting, the theory that without SOMETHING to believe in, without some form of belief system or faith in someone or something, humans - people just scatter and dispair. Too much knowledge, too much brain power for our own good, so we simply self-destruct.
We must be occupied with something in order to peacefully exist with eachothers and come to terms with our own mortality.

Rational thought and the acceptance of nothing and of death vs the need for a higher belief for a higher meaning of our life and the existence of the universe and world.

I liked a lot of the side quests/stories, too. Sometimes even more than the main quest.

I guess I also liked the toying with the ideas of past lives, and the redemption of those, reincarnation, time and immortality

 

[adddeed]

Oh look a storyfag. How about the actual gameplay? You can read about past lives and other nonsense in books you know, and where it's actually good.

 

[Daedalos]

Oh look a storyfag. How about the actual gameplay? You can read about past lives and other nonsense in books you know, and where it's actually good.

I feel the gameplay discussion has been done to death in this thread, which is why I focus more on the story and writing. (not that THAT hasn't also been discussed to death here, like everything)

The TLDR version amounts to something like: "the rTwP implementation fucking sucks, we wish it'd been TB."

The combat was super obtuse, buggy and so forth in the beginning. It's been made more tolerable with recent patches, but still pretty messy and shitty overall. (That's why they made STORYMODE, I guess)
The itemization is kind of shit, but improved from the release version, there's still grinds to be had, and the Od Nua 15 levels still outlevel you too fast for the other content.

There's also still shitloads of skills you never use (especially on priest), and overall the UI still leaves alot to be desired.