Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
29,564
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
With Pillars it seems that they didn't even try bothering. What would have been an improvement over the IE games is not "balance" but actually allow some of the roleplay possibilities inherent in those spells. It doesn't always have to be about combat. Hell, some of the quality of life stuff they added in the game could have been tied to spells.
One of pillows biggest issues for me is how boring and uninspired the magic is. It really damages the setting.
Rather than trying to improve an area where cRPGs failed, Sawyer just went in the complete opposite direction.
I hate how boring magic is in these games. It's barely above "at least you tried" level, restricted entirely to hindering enemies and helping allies.
It's only fair to directly compare it to AD&D as the entire purpose was to create a ruleset designed for cRPGs instead of tabletop, yet Sawyer completely failed. Sawyer is good at identifying problems, but pretty shit at fixing them.

Pull up a list of AD&D 2E spells including splatbooks, there's hundreds of different spells.
In a way, AD&D spells were created the same way a theoretical world with actual magical studies would be created. There are many, many authors and not every spell is meant to be -- on some level -- equivalent to others of the same tier. Many spells are completely situational, which makes sense as wizards would create spells for their specific purposes and perhaps teach them to wizards who study under them.

This is, I assume, a mostly complete list of spells for AD&D 2E: https://regalgoblins.com/spells.php
It includes PHB, splatbooks, UA, and his own homebrew spells -- sources for which are on the card itself.
There are probably more level 1 spells listed than there are spells in pillows entirely.

Picking a random level 1 spell
Patternweave
Patternweave allows the caster to make sense of apparent chaos. The caster can see such things as pottery shards reformed into a whole pot, shreds of paper formed into a page, scattered parts as a working machine, or specific trails appearing out of overlapping footprints.

After casting the spell, the mage studies seemingly random elements-broken bits of glass, shreds of paper, intermingled trails, etc. The items to be studied must be tangible-coded flashing lights, garbled speech, or thoughts of any kind cannot be studied.
The wizard must study the random elements for one round, after which the DM secretly makes a saving throw vs. spell for the wizard. If the saving throw is failed, the spell fails. However, if the saving throw is successful, the caster sees in his mind the pattern these objects form. If the items studied are truly random, no information is gained.

After the caster has visualized the pattern, he can attempt to reassemble the parts into their original form. This requires another saving throw vs. spell to determine whether the mage remembers sufficient details to accomplish the task. The amount of time required and the quality of restoration vary according to the complexity of the pattern. Reassembling a shredded map may be easy; reassembling a broken clock is significantly more difficult; rebuilding a shattered mosaic is extremely difficult. In any case, the wizard can make only a reasonable copy of the item. He can use this spell to restore works of art, but they will be worth only a small percentage of their original value.


This is an interesting spell. It is incredibly situational, yet could easily have many uses throughout basically any campaign you can think of.
PoE has nothing like this because magic is focused entirely -- and only -- on combat. How silly, do wizards do nothing but fight? They don't research, travel, cook food, grow plants, etc?

Ironically, one of the major issues with pillows is that it has no soul.

--
To be entirely fair, white march saw some usage of spells(and magical items) in dialogue/text encounters. I remember being able to use Eder's shield to put out flames because it was enchanted to be able to cast some frost spell.
This is what happens when people design cRPGs as a vehicle for combat encounters rather than as a vehicle for solving problems.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,829
Well, since they ret-conned the Vailians as being Africans doesn't that mean them speaking with an Italian accent in the game is super racist now?
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,829
Lol, wtf, how is letting the woman go "benevolent"? Who gives a fuck if her husband was abusive, murder is murder.
 

TedNugent

Arcane
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
6,497
Lol, wtf, how is letting the woman go "benevolent"? Who gives a fuck if her husband was abusive, murder is murder.
Yes, this was a bizarre situation and I'm not sure what they were trying to say here.

Dyrwood is a rather weird place.

It makes zero sense in the context of the god you're serving in that context and his own values. It literally lists out his values in the character creation menu, and they're the exact opposite of benevolent.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
Patron
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
7,587
Location
Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Lol, wtf, how is letting the woman go "benevolent"? Who gives a fuck if her husband was abusive, murder is murder.
In the context of the game, "benevolent" just means that you're willing to turn a blind eye to almost anything to avoid violence and that you are ready to forgive every possible behavior. To the point that even forgiving a genocidal nutjob and allowing him to keep genociding in his next lives is "benevolent".
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,829
Might just be "benevolent" compared to the other option you are given, to get their money to let them go.

Clearly though, the good guy option is to feel sorry for them and spare them. You also can't conveniently report them because the only evidence you got was obtained by talking to a ghost.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,829
The punishment for hitting your wife is death anyways so a good paladin is supposed to let them go.

First, my character only has their word that the husband was abusive. Why would i want to believe them? Just because the game wants me to?

Second, the dude is a coward. Rather than confront the husband, he choses to murder him in cold blood.

Lastly, murder is a worst crime than abuse. Even in our own time that is still the case. We are not to the point where women can just murder their husbands or get someone to kill them willy nilly just because he slapped her a few times (not yet anyway).

Paladins are supposed to follow an higher justice that transcends the individual. They are neither pathological benefactors nor thoughtless inquisitors.
 
Last edited:

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Lastly, murder is a worst crime than abuse.
An unfortunate but necessary and noble instance of vigilantism given the breakdown of law and order. The local lord is a fool and society is collapsing. A man must do what needs be done: execute the wifebeater with extreme prejudice. The first duty of family is to look after your own. That bear simply rid the world of another family wrecker. No higher justice than that.

Just consider that as a D&D style Paladin it would be your duty to kill the guy yourself anyways.
 
Last edited:

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
29,564
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Lastly, murder is a worst crime than abuse.
An unfortunate but necessary and noble instance of vigilantism given the breakdown of law and order. The local lord is a fool and society is collapsing. A man must do what needs be done: execute the wifebeater with extreme prejudice. The first duty of family is to look after your own. That bear simply rid the world of another family wrecker. No higher justice than that.

Just consider that as a D&D style Paladin it would be your duty to kill the guy yourself anyways.
True Paladins do not convict before the trial.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Lastly, murder is a worst crime than abuse.
An unfortunate but necessary and noble instance of vigilantism given the breakdown of law and order. The local lord is a fool and society is collapsing. A man must do what needs be done: execute the wifebeater with extreme prejudice. The first duty of family is to look after your own. That bear simply rid the world of another family wrecker. No higher justice than that.

Just consider that as a D&D style Paladin it would be your duty to kill the guy yourself anyways.
True Paladins do not convict before the trial.
You cannot have a trial when no crime has been committed. The Truest Paladins know that to rid the world of a wife beater is a noble deed worthy of Valhalla. Besides, what are you going to do? Tell the judge that the voices in your head claim that someone failed to save a criminal?
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
29,564
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
You cannot have a trial when no crime has been committed. The Truest Paladins know that to rid the world of a wife beater is a noble deed worthy of Valhalla.
Dum dum he has to be guilty of wife beating first.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,829
Even if he was that still doesn't justify murder.

When i told them i would have to report the crime, Nonton didn't even try to give himself up for the sake of the woman. After all, he is the one who commited the deed, he could have said she had nothing to do with it. Instead, they both assault me, ready to commit even more murders it seems.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Even if he was that still doesn't justify murder.

When i told them i would have to report the crime, Nonton didn't even try to give himself up for the sake of the woman. After all, he is the one who commited the deed, he could have said she had nothing to do with it. Instead, they both assault me, ready to commit even more murders it seems.
*Execution. Crime always justify those.

If anything it's very cool that Pillars lets you be a ruffian like that. You barge into a village, break their customs and murder people who defended themselves and their families from a godless man. It's an echo of a time when Obsidian had the courage of giving you evil options.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,829
I know you are just trying to be an edge lord (a pathetic one at that), but as it were, you are actually given the option to attack them first. The game itself makes a distinction between you attacking them or them attacking you.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
I know you are just trying to be an edge lord (a pathetic one at that), but as it were, you are actually given the option to attack them first. The game itself makes a distinction between you attacking them or them attacking you.
have you tried killing the backer npcs? i think you can do it without repercussions and they drop good loot.

what do you suppose sawyer meant by this
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
57,829
I know you are just trying to be an edge lord (a pathetic one at that), but as it were, you are actually given the option to attack them first. The game itself makes a distinction between you attacking them or them attacking you.
have you tried killing the backer npcs? i think you can do it without repercussions and they drop good loot.

what do you suppose sawyer meant by this

I did lul

You can only kill them out of sight. If you kill them in front of others everybody becomes red. Pity.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
Patron
Joined
Nov 23, 2014
Messages
16,710
Location
At large
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
What do you think of the paladin subtypes that Sawyer came up with? I rather liked the concepts of the Bleak Walkers and the Goldpact Knights.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom