Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, the idea of "Unholy" Paladins is pretty neat. Not exactly original as fallen holy knights are a recurring element in fantasy fiction, but it is interesting how they're a legal and established order instead of renegades.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Lastly, murder is a worst crime than abuse.

An unfortunate but necessary and noble instance of vigilantism given the breakdown of law and order. The local lord is a fool and society is collapsing. A man must do what needs be done: execute the wifebeater with extreme prejudice. The first duty of family is to look after your own. That bear simply rid the world of another family wrecker. No higher justice than that.

Just consider that as a D&D style Paladin it would be your duty to kill the guy yourself anyways.

True Paladins do not convict before the trial.

What if the Paladin is the judge though?

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yeah, the idea of "Unholy" Paladins is pretty neat. Not exactly original as fallen holy knights are a recurring element in fantasy fiction, but it is interesting how they're a legal and established order instead of renegades.

I did one playthrough as a bleak walker (must be my only full playthrough), and I liked the opportunities to roleplay this kind of character.

 

[Orud]

There were plenty of religious knightly orders in the past, on which the concept of a Paladin is largely based, whos missions and vows were quite different from one another. It's why I like the different orders in Pillars.

They were feared and respected because they were some of the few well equipped and trained armies, in a time where regular armies didn't even have a common dress-code and 'bring your own weapon and armor' was often expected from soldiers. Some even became revered for simply their skills in logistics or their efficiency and reliability in doing business. But almost never because they were 'nice', that came mostly from propaganda and myths (e.g. the knights of Camelot).

 

[Lyric Suite]

I hate the paladins in this game, so much so i had to make my own canon about the one i picked, the Darcozzi, out of spite for Sawyer.

What are paladins in this game? Just some secular zealots that draw power from their own fanaticism as apparently that allows them to tap something out of their own souls. Of course, all those powers for some reason are then based on the classic paladin archetype which makes no sense.

Imagine having "faith and convinction" and be capable of abilities like "lay on hands" (which comes from Christianity) because you are really, really obsessed about the "sancticty" of business contracts.

If there is no religion involved than those are not paladins, they are just figther orders. The communist Red Army could be "paladins" according to the logic of this game. As long as you are fanatic about an ideal, you suddenly get magical spiritual powers that resemble those of the old paladin lore.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I hate the paladins in this game, so much so i had to make my own canon about the one i picked, the Darcozzi, out of spite for Sawyer.

What are paladins in this game? Just some secular zealots that draw power from their own fanaticism as apparently that allows them to tap something out of their own souls. Of course, all those powers for some reason are then based on the classic paladin archetype which makes no sense.

Imagine having "faith and convinction" and be capable of abilities like "lay on hands" (which comes from Christianity) because you are really, really obsessed about the "sancticty" of business contracts.

If there is no religion involved than those are not paladins, they are just figther orders. The comminist Red Army could be "paladins" according to the logic of this game. As long as you are fanatic about an ideal, you suddenly get magical spiritual powers that resemble those of the old paladin lore.

Unless I am mistaken this is a DnD 4e thing too. Not that they are right either.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I wouldn't know about that. My knowledge of D&D is stuck at the 3rd edition.

 

[Orud]

Even in D&D 3.x, I just checked my 3.5 manual, Paladins do not require to be religious. Paladins are about vows, duty and conviction.

I can't confirm for AD&D, because those manuals are tucked away... somewhere.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Even in D&D 3.x, I just checked my 3.5 manual, Paladins do not require to be religious. Paladins are about vows, duty and conviction.

I can't confirm for AD&D, because those manuals are tucked away... somewhere.

But Lawful Good right?

 

[ferratilis]

PoE will make him so pissed he'll convert to Islam for real and never play video games again.

You're thinking about Paladins as a holy order, which is what D&D also went for, they're like a mix of a fighter and priest. Think of PoE paladins more as chivalric orders. They don't serve gods, but ideals. Depiction of paladin orders in PoE is my favorite in any media because of dispositions, and how they force you to stick to your chosen values.

 

[Orud]

But Lawful Good right?

Correct, a vow to righteousness is all that is required.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Think of PoE paladins more as chivalric orders. They don't serve gods, but ideals. Depiction of paladin orders in PoE is my favorite in any media because of dispositions, and how they force you to stick to your chosen values.

That works for knights, maybe, not Paladins, in my opinion.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Chivalric Orders would also encompass Military-Religious orders, which is what Paladins were based on.
Think less Camelot and more Templars.
Knights weren't monks, but Templars were.

 

[Lyric Suite]

PoE will make him so pissed he'll convert to Islam for real and never play video games again.

You're thinking about Paladins as a holy order, which is what D&D also went for, they're like a mix of a fighter and priest. Think of PoE paladins more as chivalric orders. They don't serve gods, but ideals. Depiction of paladin orders in PoE is my favorite in any media because of dispositions, and how they force you to stick to your chosen values.

Chivalric values are spiritual.

And even if i were to buy the premise, how do you reconcile the idea with the way the class was then flashed out? Every single ability in the Paladin talent tree is based on religious faith. Flames of Devotion, Sacred Immolation, Deprive the Unworthy etc etc. It's all 100% classic D&D Paladin stuff.

The disposition system is a good idea from a purely gameplay and roleplay point of view but the concept of the class makes no sense.

 

[Delterius]

Not to mention that the Steel Garrote is an actual religious order tied to Woedica, while the St Elcga Shieldbearers are based around a national figure of Aedyr it also tangentially carries Woedica connotations since Aedyr is her chosen country. The Bleak Walkers otoh are a group of ascetis from Ixamitl who carry Berath connotations. Other Paladin Orders also appear to carry ties to sainthood, such as Ydwen and the Kind Wayfarers. Paladins in PoE are anything from the IRL knight errants to the more specific D&D archetype. Don't see the issue here to be quite honest but if you want to play a more specific religious character you can have the same experience as a Priest.

 

[ferratilis]

For example:

Berath is the god of death, doors, and the wheel of reincarnation itself. Portrayed as either a genderless deity or twinned male and female incarnation, Berath seldom speaks with their followers. Their priests are expected to be rational and unemotional, treating death with a dispassionate dignity.

So all gods have certain attributes that are associated with them. Paladins who are followers of a certain god don't derive their Faith and Conviction from the belief in god, but embodying the values that the god represents. It's pretty clear from the game and dialogues. Again, most of you guys are thinking too much in context of D&D. Josh wanted to innovate on that.

 

[Lyric Suite]

His innovations suck and exist only on paper. The class is designed and plays exactly like the D&D Paladin.

 

[TedNugent]

I know you are just trying to be an edge lord (a pathetic one at that)

Oof

 

[Delterius]

For example:

Berath is the god of death, doors, and the wheel of reincarnation itself. Portrayed as either a genderless deity or twinned male and female incarnation, Berath seldom speaks with their followers. Their priests are expected to be rational and unemotional, treating death with a dispassionate dignity.

So all gods have certain attributes that are associated with them. Paladins who are followers of a certain god don't derive their Faith and Conviction from the belief in god, but embodying the values that the god represents. It's pretty clear from the game and dialogues. Again, most of you guys are thinking too much in context of D&D. Josh wanted to innovate on that.

Yeah. The Bleak Walkers aren't Paladins of Berath necessarily, but their background and philosophy tie them to the god of death. Meanwhile the Steel Garrote is straight up founded as an order dedicated to Woedica and the Shieldbearers of St. Elcga are founded as an order dedicated to Woedica's favored realm. In this context the only group I don't like very much are the Goldpact Knights, which are almost without flavor beyond being mercenaries. In what sense the Darcozzi Paladins and the Five Suns Brotherhood are more 'secular' they also make sense in a polytheistic world like Pillars'. They are tied to Vailians as a civilization and the old world royals / new world republics as their direct patrons. Their ties to the gods as the same as those of the vailians themselves.

 

[Grunker]

Honestly the Paladin stuff is some of the only PoE-lore I liked. I like the way their codes are implemented in the game as well, even if it does end up playing out simpler than it could. My favourite PoE-character was a colonist Darcozzi. Bonus autism points is that you can make all the imperialist choices while imagining the woke writers having a fit.

His innovations suck and exist only on paper. The class is designed and plays exactly like the D&D Paladin.

can you people make up your mind. one moment it's "he changed it now it sucks", the next it's "it's totally like d&d, that sucks"

 

[Grunker]

I'm currently running Tomb of Annihilation with my D&D-group, and playing a Flaming Fist character in that campaign is very much like playing Darcozzi in PoE2. Imperialist scum ftw. Bonus points if you play Lawful Good and your goal is to bring the light and justice of civilization to the unfortunate savage heathens of Chult. "I'm tomb raiding all your ruins, stealing all your cultural artifacts and colonizing your peninsula for your own good"

 

[Lyric Suite]

can you people make up your mind. one moment it's "he changed it now it sucks", the next it's "it's totally like d&d, that sucks"

Can you read the entire conversation before commenting on it?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

one moment it's "he changed it now it sucks", the next it's "it's totally like d&d, that sucks"

Changes only on paper innit.

 

[NJClaw]

But Lawful Good right?

Correct, a vow to righteousness is all that is required.

Unearthed Arcana introduced variant rules for all kinds of paladins. The paladin of freedom is CG, the paladin of tyranny is LE, and the paladin of slaughter CE.

 

[Delterius]

I'm currently running Tomb of Annihilation with my D&D-group, and playing a Flaming Fist character in that campaign is very much like playing Darcozzi in PoE2. Imperialist scum ftw. Bonus points if you play Lawful Good and your goal is to bring the light and justice of civilization to the unfortunate savage heathens of Chult

This is what happens when you let Paladins be in charge. My Priest of Wael followed the Gods' will and ensured that Vailian and Rauataian heresy wouldn't take hold in Deadfire. All Stemlords get to Walk the Plank, so to speak.