Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

I am never sure if I understand you correctly but I think that is Lyric Suite's particular bone to pick with respect to PoE's Paladins. Had they been named differently he might have been content.

Thank you anon! You are a good anon!

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Paladins from D&D come from this brah:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Hearts_and_Three_Lions

The Song of Roland basically determined the conception of the medieval knight for subsequent generations up until today and blurring the Paladins of Charlemagne with the Crusaders is not such a wierd thing to do, since there's actually a continuation between them (Charlemagne, in case anybody forgot, was a Christian King and his Paladins inspired the ethos of all later knights).

It is lamentable anon because Dungeons Dragons Paladin do have pedigree anon of cuckoldry anon! It is lamentable anon! It is! Holger Carlsen anon is famous Danish cuckold anon! He is! He did lose cute swan wife anon to random peasant anon! He did! Do not worry anon it is okay anon because modern Paladin can be good strong BIG PENIS wife scholar anons anon because I do not believe anon in inherit guilt nonsense anon! Do not! It is American leftist cuckold nonsense anon! It is! Thank you anon! You are a good anon!
https://www.baen.com/Chapters/9781476780597/9781476780597___5.htm

 

[Ninjerk]

Let's just be honest with ourselves and say everything was and is gay.

Speaking of not gay Paladins:

This is a good reminder of why fantasy armor is retarded, ugly as sin and ridiculous. Absolutely nothing beats Gothic/Renaissance full plate. Functional and aesthetically beautiful.

Everything below the elbows looks kind of weird on this set, though.

Out of proportion, and those greaves look weird.

Looks like probably the work of Justin Sweet (Fallout splash screen painter). A number of concept art luminaries from the mid-2000s to now worked on projects like this while they were essentially still learning how to draw and paint. Back then, there was extremely limited access to traditional drawing and painting education in the United States. The internet and its culture hadn't developed to the point that art students/young artists with an interest in traditional (i.e. Renaissance and everything it inspired) art skills found one another and shared materials. The universities (and to a great extent even the private art schools) had nearly completely purged traditional art curriculums decades before--if Kev Ferrara is to be believed, there was even a "smashing of the casts" at Pratt or RISD (IDR which) where his mother worked as an instructor (students smashed plaster casts that had been molded directly from the works of great masters in order to prevent other students from using them for drawing/painting practice).

Some trivia:
I believe I read in an interview years and years ago that Jason Manley (artist on IWD) had the good fortune to be somewhat of a fuck up as a student and ended up attending a community college in Arizona or New Mexico where he studied under a guy who had kept some of the traditional art skills and curriculum alive--in the United States community colleges (sometimes called junior colleges) are generally seen as less expensive alternatives for students of poorer academic ability or adult students who need work/study balance and, as such, tend not to attract people who engage in whatever flavor-of-the-year art politics are en vogue. I'm speculating a bit, but I believe Manley and several of his friends went on to found Massive Black (literally named thus as an inside joke for "Massive Black Cock", as their logo features a rooster silhouette), a concept art studio that would contract out to game studios who wished to keep some of the art work external so they didn't have to go through a potentially costly hiring cycle for a relatively short part of a project. Manley registered the conceptart dot org domain and ran the site for, I think, nearly a decade where it earned a reputation as a place where snowflake anime-tracers and Deviantart-ists would frequently leave in tears after being told, "Your art sucks. Go draw from life." Somewhere around 2010 or so, Manley started TAD, The Art Department, as an initiative to start ateliers all over the United States (maybe the world, I don't remember, doesn't matter now anyways) where students with similar interests in, e.g. concept art, illustration, industrial design could gather together and learn art skills that would serve them in commercial capacities and sidestep all the modernist-and-later shit that ruled the art establishment in North America (and probably still does).

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

I'm speculating a bit, but I believe Manley and several of his friends went on to found Massive Black (literally named thus as an inside joke for "Massive Black Cock", as their logo features a rooster silhouette)

What! Why do Americans anons! Why do! What! Is it quintessentially American nonsense anons! Is it! What!

 

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

Let's just be honest with ourselves and say everything was and is gay.

Speaking of not gay Paladins:

This is a good reminder of why fantasy armor is retarded, ugly as sin and ridiculous. Absolutely nothing beats Gothic/Renaissance full plate. Functional and aesthetically beautiful.

Everything below the elbows looks kind of weird on this set, though.

Out of proportion, and those greaves look weird.

Character does look like gorilla anons! It is true anons! It is! Armour is cute anons but character is gorilla face anons! It is true anons! It is! Here anons I do give you this cute heterosexual human male fantasy hero wife scholar picture anons! I do! Thank you anons! You are all good anons!

 

[Nano]

Really, though, the PoEs' overall art style is one of their greatest assets, which matters if you're an atmospherefag (and I undoubtedly am). The comparatively more infantile KM, WotR and – God forbid – D:OS's are sadly lacking in this department. More contemporary CRPGs need to embrace a painterly aesthetic. If I'm going to be staring at a screen for hours, I want the visuals to be evocative.

This cannot be overstated. Sometimes I feel like starting up Kingmaker again, but then I remember the cartoon graphics and it kills it. And on the other end you have Pillars where everything except the art is boring.

 

[TedNugent]

Looks like probably the work of Justin Sweet (Fallout splash screen painter). A number of concept art luminaries from the mid-2000s to now worked on projects like this while they were essentially still learning how to draw and paint. Back then, there was extremely limited access to traditional drawing and painting education in the United States. The internet and its culture hadn't developed to the point that art students/young artists with an interest in traditional (i.e. Renaissance and everything it inspired) art skills found one another and shared materials. The universities (and to a great extent even the private art schools) had nearly completely purged traditional art curriculums decades before--if Kev Ferrara is to be believed, there was even a "smashing of the casts" at Pratt or RISD (IDR which) where his mother worked as an instructor (students smashed plaster casts that had been molded directly from the works of great masters in order to prevent other students from using them for drawing/painting practice).

I was thoroughly disgusted when I attempted for a year to be an art major at a local university that was known for its art program. All I wanted to do was either have something like my art classes in high school, ironically my teacher was an alumni of the same university, where they give you the tools and open ended reference materials to make what you want, or have a traditional art program in which you were taught how to use various media alongside classic art production techniques. Maybe the opportunity to work some real stone.

Unfortunately, I shit you not, I had a teaching assistant who ran the lab give us an assignment that had two options. The first was as part of the sewing requirement, which was to make three hackeysacks. The second was to make a pair of pants out of paper mache. You were to be graded on the level of detail on your paints, e.g. buttons, pockets, etc. Needless to say, I made the hackeysacks while sulking in futile rage.

I was absolutely beyond disgusted after two semesters without improvement and changed my major. I didn't expect much, but what the fuck.

 

[FreeKaner]

Let's just be honest with ourselves and say everything was and is gay.

Speaking of not gay Paladins:

This is a good reminder of why fantasy armor is retarded, ugly as sin and ridiculous. Absolutely nothing beats Gothic/Renaissance full plate. Functional and aesthetically beautiful.

Everything below the elbows looks kind of weird on this set, though.

Out of proportion, and those greaves look weird.

That's not Gothic, it looks like a corruption of 16th century Northern Italian armors. Like this one:

Spoiler

If anything it's the opposite, games overuse 15th-16th century plate armors and don't use actual medieval armor in their supposedly medieval settings.

Like 14th century armors:

Of course POE1 is different and it having full plate 16th century armor makes sense since it is supposed to be renaissance / early colonial.

 

[Ninjerk]

I was thoroughly disgusted when I attempted for a year to be an art major at a local university that was known for its art program. All I wanted to do was either have something like my art classes in high school, ironically my teacher was an alumni of the same university, where they give you the tools and open ended reference materials to make what you want, or have a traditional art program in which you were taught how to use various media alongside classic art production techniques. Maybe the opportunity to work some real stone.

Unfortunately, I shit you not, I had a teaching assistant who ran the lab give us an assignment that had two options. The first was as part of the sewing requirement, which was to make three hackeysacks. The second was to make a pair of pants out of paper mache. You were to be graded on the level of detail on your paints, e.g. buttons, pockets, etc. Needless to say, I made the hackeysacks while sulking in futile rage.

I was absolutely beyond disgusted after two semesters without improvement and changed my major. I didn't expect much, but what the fuck.

I actually forgot to mention that TAD ended up being a bit of a scam. Artists that had lent their skills for digital tutorial videos started reporting that their checks weren't arriving on time, then they were weeks late, etc. IIRC Marshall Vandruff was involved with one of the ateliers in SoCal and ended up splitting it off from TAD when no one was getting paid but restoration work was still getting done on Manley's Dodge Dart (that curiously seemed to be on display at either MB or perhaps one of the atelier locations, it's been so long I don't remember). Art seems to be a much easier field to hoodwink people in than some of the harder subjects.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Looks like probably the work of Justin Sweet (Fallout splash screen painter). A number of concept art luminaries from the mid-2000s to now worked on projects like this while they were essentially still learning how to draw and paint. Back then, there was extremely limited access to traditional drawing and painting education in the United States. The internet and its culture hadn't developed to the point that art students/young artists with an interest in traditional (i.e. Renaissance and everything it inspired) art skills found one another and shared materials. The universities (and to a great extent even the private art schools) had nearly completely purged traditional art curriculums decades before--if Kev Ferrara is to be believed, there was even a "smashing of the casts" at Pratt or RISD (IDR which) where his mother worked as an instructor (students smashed plaster casts that had been molded directly from the works of great masters in order to prevent other students from using them for drawing/painting practice).

 

[TedNugent]

If anything it's the opposite, games overuse 15th-16th century plate armors and don't use actual medieval armor in their supposedly medieval settings.

To be fair, it is particularly refreshing that PoE does in fact have authentic brigandines.

Also, they had full plate in the 14th century. The stylings may be off, but there are depictions in art and on 14th century tombs showing as much. They don't have to do a coat of plates/mail for the 14th century, they'd just have to get the styling right. I was also thinking, this game does fail on helmets, with weird shit like jousting helms and great helms, without any of the normal stuff like bascinets. If they were leaning toward a late medieval/Renaissance vibe, I definitely find close helms and armets especially to be dope looking helmets, alongside the classic sallet. The utilitarian kettle helm really should be there, too. Maybe even a conquistador helmet. I really hope they have those in Deadfire.

But yes, I was wrong about saying "Gothic." I was thinking Milanese, but I knew that didn't look right, either. But the point still stands, Gothic alongside the especially late Italian armors are some of my favorites.

Side note, love this documentary and the host.



How's this for -50% reaction time.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Unless it's a historical game idc what kind of stuff it has in it as long as it's cool. I'd play a game set in ancient rome with firearms.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I never undrstood the big deal that Pillars' writers are trying to make of "omg, gods aren't real gods, they are these very powerful engwithans who through [magical gibberrish explanation] secured immortality for their consciousness".

Isn't it obvious that the average person in the world wouldn't make a distinction between "a god" and whatever "non-god" these engwithans have become, and if anything, this revelation confirms that there exist conscious forces watching and controlling the world.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I never undrstood the big deal that Pillars' writers are trying to make of "omg, gods aren't real gods, they are these very powerful engwithans who through [magical gibberrish explanation] secured immortality for their consciousness".

Isn't it obvious that the average person in the world wouldn't make a distinction between "a god" and whatever "non-god" these engwithans have become, and if anything, this revelation confirms that there exist conscious forces watching and controlling the world.

They became gods the same way like 70% of the forgotten realms pantheon did, yet nobody ever calls them fake gods.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Unless it's a historical game idc what kind of stuff it has in it as long as it's cool. I'd play a game set in ancient rome with firearms.

Pretty sure Archimedes could have made a few firearms if his life wasn't cut short.

 

[Napalm]

I never undrstood the big deal that Pillars' writers are trying to make of "omg, gods aren't real gods, they are these very powerful engwithans who through [magical gibberrish explanation] secured immortality for their consciousness".

Isn't it obvious that the average person in the world wouldn't make a distinction between "a god" and whatever "non-god" these engwithans have become, and if anything, this revelation confirms that there exist conscious forces watching and controlling the world.

It is especially amusing because shortly before you get the whole "gods are FAAAAKE!" reveal you have to jump into some super deep hole, and you need to have sucked up to one of those "fake" gods to survive it or you will get pancaked.

 

[Delterius]

I never undrstood the big deal that Pillars' writers are trying to make of "omg, gods aren't real gods, they are these very powerful engwithans who through [magical gibberrish explanation] secured immortality for their consciousness".

Isn't it obvious that the average person in the world wouldn't make a distinction between "a god" and whatever "non-god" these engwithans have become, and if anything, this revelation confirms that there exist conscious forces watching and controlling the world.

The issue was never one of confirmation but rather one of dessecration. If you can just create new gods or perhaps even kill the old ones with enough earthly sacrifice, well then the relationship between the world and the divine is less of an actual religious experience and more of a quid pro quo. Under the new paradigm mortals can make use of a transcendental power in the name of influence, knowledge, or stability. But the Gods outright rely on the flow of mortal souls in order to survive. How this imbalance is solved going forward was *supposed* to be the premise of Deadfire. From what I remember Forgotten Realms has a similar core issue. The Gods were once too tyrannical or detached from mortals, so they were humbled by a higher power and re-made to require mortal worship in order to exist. In theory a mortal soul could just worship no Gods at all. That would probably be a bad thing long term. The solution in that setting was the Wall of the Faithless.

I agree that the main plots of Pillars 1 and 2 completely failed to make a compelling case out of this. Iovara calling the gods fake could be a hint it but is a poor choice of words. It's like they hadn't yet decided on wether the Gods were these abstract forces of the collective unconscious given a some staying power by the Engwithan sacrifice or the actual entities that we see in Deadfire. The DLCs however are a different story. White March and Beast of Winter in particular are what start outlining that conflict. But two auxilliary stories can't make up for the distractions of the main plotlines so they eventually ended up patching in a long fireside chat with Woedica where she outright spells everything out. Beast of Winter was particularly egregious about this. It consists of scenes that had to have been a part of the main plot of Deadfire. It explains Eothas' motivations and the main mystery of Deadfire better than Deadfire ever bothered to and it's agonizing. Meanwhile White March actually showed you that the price of the old paradigm was the Gods committing genocide whenever mortals learned too well. You know, Thaos' informed and never shown character trait.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

a shitton of gods in forgotten realms are just mortals who attained godhood
you play as the child of one in baldur's gate

woops guess you're retroactively no longer the child of a god in BG1 & 2.

 

[TedNugent]

Thanks for the spoiler you fucking faggots

 

[Parabalus]

I never undrstood the big deal that Pillars' writers are trying to make of "omg, gods aren't real gods, they are these very powerful engwithans who through [magical gibberrish explanation] secured immortality for their consciousness".

Isn't it obvious that the average person in the world wouldn't make a distinction between "a god" and whatever "non-god" these engwithans have become, and if anything, this revelation confirms that there exist conscious forces watching and controlling the world.

They became gods the same way like 70% of the forgotten realms pantheon did, yet nobody ever calls them fake gods.

FR pantheon is evershifting, Eora's was constructed once.

Also in FR individual mortals 'ascend' to godhood, here they were mass sacrificed and just used as raw material for sculpting the gods.

 

[Darth Canoli]

It is especially amusing because shortly before you get the whole "gods are FAAAAKE!" reveal you have to jump into some super deep hole, and you need to have sucked up to one of those "fake" gods to survive it or you will get pancaked.

It's funny how Avellone managed to pull ONE single "metaphysical" plot and then, all of the other retards tried to pull one as well but they lack the brains and the talent.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Thanks for the spoiler you fucking faggots

don't expect people to spoiler a discussion about a 7 year old game

 

[Delterius]

I never undrstood the big deal that Pillars' writers are trying to make of "omg, gods aren't real gods, they are these very powerful engwithans who through [magical gibberrish explanation] secured immortality for their consciousness".

Isn't it obvious that the average person in the world wouldn't make a distinction between "a god" and whatever "non-god" these engwithans have become, and if anything, this revelation confirms that there exist conscious forces watching and controlling the world.

They became gods the same way like 70% of the forgotten realms pantheon did, yet nobody ever calls them fake gods.

FR pantheon is evershifting, Eora's was constructed once.

Also in FR individual mortals 'ascend' to godhood, here they were mass sacrificed and just used as raw material for sculpting the gods.

And even so in FR the gods had to create Super Hell to make sure people still worshipped them.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Thanks for the spoiler you fucking faggots

You should thank them twice if it saves you from playing the game, you'd never know how grateful you really are...

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I never undrstood the big deal that Pillars' writers are trying to make of "omg, gods aren't real gods, they are these very powerful engwithans who through [magical gibberrish explanation] secured immortality for their consciousness".

Isn't it obvious that the average person in the world wouldn't make a distinction between "a god" and whatever "non-god" these engwithans have become, and if anything, this revelation confirms that there exist conscious forces watching and controlling the world.

They became gods the same way like 70% of the forgotten realms pantheon did, yet nobody ever calls them fake gods.

FR pantheon is evershifting, Eora's was constructed once.

Also in FR individual mortals 'ascend' to godhood, here they were mass sacrificed and just used as raw material for sculpting the gods.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...