Eternity PoE II: Deadfire Sales Analysis Thread

[Lycra Suit]

Baldur's Gate in the unity engine?

Not sure if want.

 

[imweasel]

Senile Sawyer.

Spoiler

Sawyer isn't senile. Sawyer is just Sawyer.

 

[Lhynn]

He was born old and boring

 

[nikolokolus]

Looking at how extremely low PoE1's achievement %s are - only 43% finished Act 1 - it probably suffers from the same issue as Legend of Grimrock: a lot of people bought it blindly due to the hype but found out that they don't like IE-style games.

Or they don't like Obsidian's take on it, at least.

I have a theory that Deadfire's low sales might be a long standing reaction to the general audience being disappointed/bored with PoE on release.

I've been thinking and this could be the reason for Deadfire's disappointing sales. It looks like a lot of people simply didn't like PoE's initial release, despite general critical acclaim. We've seen the effects of it in The White March which sold badly. Obsidian thought it was because TWM came out too long after Pillars and interest had faded - what if that was not the main reason? What if the actual reason was very low excitement for PoE following its release, so much that 57% of players didn't even finish Act 1 (and then left and never came back to the franchise)?

It looks like people really didn't like the game and didn't return after its patching and didn't care about the release of better content. That might have resulted in a disappointing TWM sales, and subsequent Deadfire sales.

I fall firmly into this category. From enthusiastic first-time Kickstarter backer, to cynical pass after trying and failng to make it stick on 4 aborted play-throughs, on several different patch versions. It just bored the hell out of me.

All of the elements of what I thought would make an engrossing game should be there: pretty to look at, early-modern, party-based, some Avellone NPCs, etc., but the mix wasn't right, or the gameplay never felt very good, or the prose just felt a little too "try hard," who knows? I just know I wasn't going to D1P or back another round of crowdfunding, nor pay full price.

Maybe when it hits 75% off in a Steam sale I'll pick it up and won't feel like I wasted my money if it sucks the same way PoE1 did.

 

[2house2fly]

and it ends.

Pillars of Eternity 2 director Josh Sawyer has an enviable list of credits to his name, from Icewind Dale to Neverwinter Nights 2, Fallout: New Vegas, and Tyranny

lol, gaming journalism

You will be remembered for Tyranny, Josh.

Reminds me:

Like Tyranny?

Like what?

Tyranny.

I heard the audio of that. I would have transcribed it like this:

Like [unintelligible]

Like what?

Tyranny.

 

[markec]

Even if it goes a bit better than currently expected, I see no reason for a sequel from a business point of view. It would make more sense to take the risk and develop a brand new IP. Now, if PoE2 reaches a cult status in the far future after heavy patching and modding, then it's different.

It will sell well as a trilogy, most likely.

Hong Kong got carried that way.

After denial and anger I can see Obsidiantards are in the third stage of grief "bargaining", soon will come depression and acceptance.

 

[Quillon]

I heard the audio of that.

Where?

 

[Roguey]

Like [unintelligible]

I understood it immediately.

 

[Sacred82]

Like [unintelligible]

I understood it immediately.

senpai speaks directly into your mind

 

[Roguey]

senpai speaks directly into your mind

I suppose it's possible that since I had already been listening to Bubbles for a while, I got used to parsing his accented words. But that wouldn't explain how Sawyer was allegedly unable to understand.

 

[Sacred82]

senpai speaks directly into your mind

I suppose it's possible that since I had already been listening to Bubbles for a while, I got used to parsing his accented words. But that wouldn't explain how Sawyer was allegedly unable to understand.

oh, I thought it happened the other way around. Didn't expect Bubbles to still be a thing.

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

PoE IP is pretty much worthless,it is a generic world filled with plotholes bigger than the world and kind of mediocre fallowing,wouldn't even call it a fanbase.It doesn't shine with anything good,i see no reason for someone to buy this IP and not make better one with money. The greatest problem for the game is the lack of good writing. All the classics have a ton of problems,but all of them have really good writing. It is what is important in a rpg.

Do you think that BG2 or DA:O didn’t have plot holes or bad writing? It was not just one thing that prevented them for copying the Bioware formula after all those years. They lack a strong vision behind them and tried to shoot in all directions. PoE2 is not what BG2 would look like with better graphics, it is what a person that doesn’t like what he is doing would reimagine so. You see, the irony is that types like David Gaider that are so mistreated here have a much deeper understanding of games than Josh Sawyer. You can tell this by the examples of games that formed his identity as a gamer (Civilization, etc.)., only good stuff, and by his role on BG2. The same could be said about James Ohlen and Kevin Martens role in BG2. They were passionate D&D players doing their best. They were not playing safe or trying to make a product that would capture “that part of the market”. Bioware games didn't have walls of text either. But the main lesson we can take from this is that Bioware is similar to that pop singer you hate and despise. It is tempting to believe that anyone can do what they do because you hate their work, but it is not like that. You need to have a lot of professionalism and understanding to do the right kind of soap opera garbage that will attract a wider audience. Hell, Bioware itself is declining now that their older names are leaving. Do you think this is a coincidence?

 

[fantadomat]

PoE IP is pretty much worthless,it is a generic world filled with plotholes bigger than the world and kind of mediocre fallowing,wouldn't even call it a fanbase.It doesn't shine with anything good,i see no reason for someone to buy this IP and not make better one with money. The greatest problem for the game is the lack of good writing. All the classics have a ton of problems,but all of them have really good writing. It is what is important in a rpg.

Do you think that BG2 or DA:O didn’t have plot holes or bad writing?

Far superior writing in all possible aspects,don't remember a simple plothole. In PoE the main stories are giant plotholes,like a giant statue that move(physically impossible) to destroy a giant macihene that recycle souls back in to the world(how were people born before that?). By people that weren't technologically advanced,on the same level as any tribe around them,according to the ingame lore and its website,yet they were able to build weather machines and mechs.

Please tell me where were the plotholes in BG and DAO!

 

[2house2fly]

Christ man, you're complaining that a physically impossible thing happened in a fantasy setting? Fucking hell here's a Baldur's Gate plot hole for you: you can't be a child of the god of murder because gods don't exist

 

[Elex]

Christ man, you're complaining that a physically impossible thing happened in a fantasy setting? Fucking hell here's a Baldur's Gate plot hole for you: you can't be a child of the god of murder because gods don't exist

because the story is about pretending be a son of a god, pretty common in history.
"I am the son of the god of murder"
"god of murder don't exist"
"fine i will still murder you"

 

[felipepepe]

Christ man, you're complaining that a physically impossible thing happened in a fantasy setting? Fucking hell here's a Baldur's Gate plot hole for you: you can't be a child of the god of murder because gods don't exist

I rarely agree with fantadomat, but he's right and you completely missed the point.

It's all about INTERNAL consistency. There are gods in BG's world, so it's possible for there to be a child of a god. PoE is a medieval fantasy world that makes no sense - most people use swords and armors like it's the middle ages, but there are gun powder (which made armor& castles useless) lying around and somehow there's also the tech for giant machines. That made sense in Arcanum, where all that was integrated into a giant conflict of magic & science, but in PoE nothing is ever addressed.

 

[ArchAngel]

People buy games and never play them all the time. I guess they could be waiting for patches.

Or to ask for a refund after playing for 20 mins.

That interest is waning seems perfectly reasonable tbh. The people who got it on release have mostly finished the game by now and no sane person would play through the game before patches.

This is fine.jpg.

Do you think anyone who enjoyed BG2 on release would stop replaying the game because of bugs? Of course not. The interest is waning because the game sucks.

When I played BG1 and Bg2 for first time, I played both for weeks without stopping. Hybrid shitposter speaks the truth.

 

[ArchAngel]

I never understood how people could stomach rtwp for infinity engine games.Especially after playing temple of elemental evil.

Some of us are older than 15 so we played IE games before ToEE. Also ToEE at the time was barely playable due to game being released basically unfinished. I had way more fun with it later when I played it with Co8 patch.

 

[Riddler]

People buy games and never play them all the time. I guess they could be waiting for patches.

Or to ask for a refund after playing for 20 mins.

That interest is waning seems perfectly reasonable tbh. The people who got it on release have mostly finished the game by now and no sane person would play through the game before patches.

This is fine.jpg.

Do you think anyone who enjoyed BG2 on release would stop replaying the game because of bugs? Of course not. The interest is waning because the game sucks.

When I played BG1 and Bg2 for first time, I played both for weeks without stopping. Hybrid shitposter speaks the truth.

So did I BUT I had way less options back then. I still think BG2 is an immensely superior game that I would have played longer at release than Deadfire even if it had been released today but the same general trend holds. I play and finish single player games one by one, giving maybe a week to each, almost regardless of quality. Few are the singleplayer RPGs that keep my interest for more than 1 week at a time.

I regularly return to IE games but seldom for more than a playthrough, which takes me a few days to a week.

 

[Infinitron]

I heard the audio of that.

Where?

Posted by Bubbles on badgame.net: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6f3m77psqorjwbw/160816_0026.wav

 

[TT1]

Christ man, you're complaining that a physically impossible thing happened in a fantasy setting? Fucking hell here's a Baldur's Gate plot hole for you: you can't be a child of the god of murder because gods don't exist

I rarely agree with fantadomat, but he's right and you completely missed the point.

It's all about INTERNAL consistency. There are gods in BG's world, so it's possible for there to be a child of a god. PoE is a medieval fantasy world that makes no sense - most people use swords and armors like it's the middle ages, but there are gun powder (which made armor& castles useless) lying around and somehow there's also the tech for giant machines. That made sense in Arcanum, where all that was integrated into a giant conflict of magic & science, but in PoE nothing is ever addressed.

I disagree with you.

While, in fact, there is gunpowder and armor coexisting together, Eora (or at least the Eastern Reach) is undergoing a clear transition, just as it happened to Earth. Even today there are fortress and armor coexisting with gunpowder and machine guns, just because they protect more than simply not using anything.

The machines that exist in PoE are an enigma and nobody knows how to use them, it's not as if the machines were created used by any ordinary citizen. No one knows how it was done. There is no conflict, for the simple fact that the machines are a relic and a total mystery, like the construction of the pyramids or the Nazca lines.

 

[ArchAngel]

People buy games and never play them all the time. I guess they could be waiting for patches.

Or to ask for a refund after playing for 20 mins.

That interest is waning seems perfectly reasonable tbh. The people who got it on release have mostly finished the game by now and no sane person would play through the game before patches.

This is fine.jpg.

Do you think anyone who enjoyed BG2 on release would stop replaying the game because of bugs? Of course not. The interest is waning because the game sucks.

When I played BG1 and Bg2 for first time, I played both for weeks without stopping. Hybrid shitposter speaks the truth.

So did I BUT I had way less options back then. I still think BG2 is an immensely superior game that I would have played longer at release than Deadfire even if it had been released today but the same general trend holds. I play and finish single player games one by one, giving maybe a week to each, almost regardless of quality. Few are the singleplayer RPGs that keep my interest for more than 1 week at a time.

I regularly return to IE games but seldom for more than a playthrough, which takes me a few days to a week.

Not my experience. At the time I had other fun games I played a lot (mostly in MP) but I stopped it all and lost weeks of my life just to BG1 and later to BG2. I would finish the game and immediately start over with a different party composition trying to do stuff differently.
Even later when BG1EE was released again I lost weeks of my life just playing that and I had a bigger choice of games as you said. But still none of them are as good as Bg1EE where I would again start over and try solo play, all custom made characters play, all mages play, no casters play...

 

[Blakemoreland Hybrid Boss]

cRPGs reflect what the developers are about (their formative experiences, game preferences, general culture, political inclinations, etc.). If a developer tries to make a game just like it was made by completely different people more than a decade ago, he will fail. Not only will he fail, he will add his own unwanted personal contributions to the legacy that were supposed to emulate, which can come across as a betrayal or lack of understanding of the subject. Even if the creators of BG2 themselves would try to recreate its magic they would fail because they are completely different people now. The players themselves are different people now. That is why these nostalgia projects are all doomed from the start.

Notice that developers think they can pretend doing the stuff you like when the reality is that they don’t play the same games you play, if they play games at all instead of squander all their spare time on social media. But you can’t pretend to know how encounter design or combat system works, because it shows. If you only play Hitman or Cities: Skylines in your spare time instead of playing cRPGs, this will be reflected in your game. You can’t just turn of the switch and do cRPG stuff to please those grognard traditionalist dudes. You need to be immersed in cRPGs and take them seriously in order to remain sharp. There are a lot of burnout cRPG developers living double lives at this point. They pretend they like cRPGs, but it is just the stuff they need to do to pay their bills. There is a big chasm between most cRPG developers and their audience right now, and it only grows as time passes and players try to be forgiving and understanding with their bland uninspired games.

 

[Flou]

I'm sure they expected much better. I wonder what they can do from here on out to get the franchise back on track.

Another Kickstarter / Figstarter with somewhat modest and reasonable stretch goals that don't push back their release date by much. This time stick with the mechanics you've made for the 2nd game, instead of blowing it up and tweaking it for an eternity. Make it higher lvl campaign and the end of the story for The Watcher character. Have big ass battles with difficult enemies and an epic story.
Promote the fuck out of it as the end of the The Watcher trilogy (sorta like Throne of Bhaal, a stand alone game. Not a fucking DLC). Make it into a 40-50 hour long game and if anything improve on the coding and graphics.
And don't fucking slack with KS/Fig campaign updates. Having few months without updates is just bad marketing and there's no excuse for it.

Boom, there you have yourself a Feargus slamdunk. Releasing the 3rd game or 2.5 will improve their numbers on 1st and 2nd game as well. Naturally they aren't getting as much money from those titles at that point, but it's still income.

You can thank me later Feargus. I accept donations in the same size you would hand out to Harvard, Stanford etc. to get your kids in.

 

[Quillon]

I heard the audio of that.

Where?

Posted by Bubbles on badgame.net: https://www.dropbox.com/s/6f3m77psqorjwbw/160816_0026.wav

Why you have made us read when there is VO?

Post the whole thing!