Game News Queen's Wish 2: The Tormentor now on Kickstarter

[gaussgunner]

You know, thinking about it, maybe the reason Exile 1-3 were good was at the time he was just copying the then relevant Ultima.

Where did he copy Geneforge from?

There was a lot of biotech fantasy/horror shit in the nineties, Geneforge isn't unique.

Still might be one of the better turnbased rpg series. Sometime I'll finish it, instead of buying this new trash.

 

[Alter Sack]

The initial goal is almost reached after the campaign has been online for only one day.

He sure seems to still have a dedicated following despite a constant decline of his games gameplay wise.

I wonder why?

Is the shareware look this stingy bastards prefers for his games so endearing?

 

[Mortmal]

The initial goal is almost reached after the campaign has been online for only one day.

He sure seems to still have a dedicated following despite a constant decline of his games gameplay wise.

I wonder why?

Is the shareware look this stingy bastards prefers for his games so endearing?

Because despite the shortcomings and lack of complexity it isnt half bad, tactical combat is good , its entertaining. There's still very few rpgs released ,a good one every few years, plenty of room for 20 guys like vogel to sell their indie games. Everyone going to play WOTR in september then what ? Wait a few more years for BG3 , wait even more years for owlcat sci fi game , new underail maybe ? And that's all.
He's guaranteed to always sell.

 

[thesheeep]

Interestingly (?), the guy says this trilogy will be his last original work (in his sense of 'original', that is, he will keep making remasters)...

Not his last original work, but his last original series.
Might mean that more entries in other series could happen.

Or not, of course.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

He'll finish us off with Queenie 3: Down With The Queen - Hail to the King Baby!

 

[Loremonger]

I often wondered why Queens Wish cast of characters looked so different than the previous 20 years of games. Now I know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stxVBJem3Rs&t=1853s

 

[Zeriel]

Vogel's history of aping thoughtlessly whatever is the current AAA wonder continues. You know, thinking about it, maybe the reason Exile 1-3 were good was at the time he was just copying the then relevant Ultima. I guess maybe he was always this way, it's just that what he's shamelessly copying is now so much more degenerated.

I agree that Vogel takes liberally from good ideas in other games, and that the difference in his more recent games have been a reflection of that. Taking good ideas from other games is what developers should be doing, though, and I disagree that he did so "thoughtlessly" or that he was "just copying." The combat in Exile is much better, the exploration is much better, the world is more packed and makes more sense (you don't tend to just have cities in the middle of the wilderness), the setting is actually interesting and not just a Garriott powerlarp (and no "Ye olde English" garbage), and there's thankfully no first person dungeon exploration. Though it was clearly inspired by Ultima, the Exile series is quite different and I'd argue better than the Ultima's (at least the Ultimas I've played).

I say he's copying thoughtlessly now because Witcher 3's XP design is one of its worst aspects. When you just copy something because its popular you end up aping really dumb stuff like this. See also his Bioware fascination.

That being said I will acknowledge this is all subjective.

 

[Contagium]

I don't get Jeff with his whole "I'm old/tired/the end is coming soon" routine that he's been flirting with for years. Seems like a ploy to keep his long time fans from leaving. He looks to be what, early 50's at the most? I'm well into my 40's and will happily plug along on my computer for work for the next 30 years if I live that long. Maybe just releasing the same game over and over again has accelerated the aging process?

 

[Tyranicon]

I don't get Jeff with his whole "I'm old/tired/the end is coming soon" routine that he's been flirting with for years. Seems like a ploy to keep his long time fans from leaving. He looks to be what, early 50's at the most? I'm well into my 40's and will happily plug along on my computer for work for the next 30 years if I live that long. Maybe just releasing the same game over and over again has accelerated the aging process?

He's 51.

I have a lot of respect for Vogel, but not because of his games. At the end of the day, he's just a toymaker who seems to be hyper-resistant to upgrading his games with new graphics and other QoL changes.

His shtick is really, really wanting to keep making games by himself, but it seems like he could benefit from hiring some more people. I get wanting to keep complete creative control, but sometimes we solodevs are mired in making the same game over and over again.

He's a case of hitting success early on and continuously attempting to recreate that success.

 

[MightyHoax]

Jeff (a.k.a Jack) should stick to making movies, not games

 

[baud]

Choice 1: You Have To Do Dungeons In One Run

In our earlier games, you could whittle away at a dungeon in multiple trips. You could bust in, kill half of the enemies, return to town to rest, and then return to finish the dungeon off. When you got back, the foes you already killed would be (mostly) gone.

In Queen's Wish, all enemies respawn when you return to a dungeon. You have to use tactics and planning and conserve your power to finish the adventure in one run. The dungeons are very carefully balanced to make each run close and exciting. (But a lot of players don't like "exciting." "Exciting" is stressful.)

I haven't played Queen's Wish. Does that mean there are no more trash encounters that serve no purpose?
Endless purposeless trivial trash encounters is what made me stop playing Avadon (and it was already present in his former games I tried), so is QW better than the Avadon series?

No, not really, QW 1 had lots of trash encounters, they even respawned if you left the map

But don't they wear your resources down while you take them out, or do they just waste your time?

Both, IIRC, been awhile since i played QW1, (i left at the first "bunker" thing you find down south, the point where you start seeing evidence of the major villain)

there was even level scaling, for maximum time wasting; well the worse was with the random encounters in the outdoors map, since they don't give any reward (either loot or xp) and don't help clear a dungeon

 

[almondblight]

This is interesting. It looks like QW1 gives you an ending code you can enter at the start of QW2, so that your decisions in the first will have some impact on the second:

When you enter the code, Queen's Wish 2 will tell you what actions are being carried forward.

 

[Galdred]

This is interesting. It looks like QW1 gives you an ending code you can enter at the start of QW2, so that your decisions in the first will have some impact on the second:

When you enter the code, Queen's Wish 2 will tell you what actions are being carried forward.

Like in Mass Effect? :D

 

[vortex]

I really do wish Vogel and MRY teams up with Bioware and make AAA RPG we deserve.

 

[Darkozric]

I really do wish Vogel and MRY teams up with Bioware and make AAA RPG we deserve.

Don't use plural in the codex. YOU need not "we", retard.

 

[The_Sloth_Sleeps]

I really do wish Vogel and MRY teams up with Bioware and make AAA RPG we deserve.

Don't use plural in the codex. YOU need not "we", retard.

You mean we/them/their/xher deserve.

 

[Junmarko]

His shtick is really, really wanting to keep making games by himself, but it seems like he could benefit from hiring some more people.

Jeff Stingy-King Vogel paying salaries, yeah that isn't going to happen.

1st stretch goal is an iPhone port.

Secret stretch goal is him buying rocks for his glass barbeque.

 

[LudensCogitet]

Fuck you guys. I liked Queen's Wish and I'm backing this.

 

[duanth123]

I don't get Jeff with his whole "I'm old/tired/the end is coming soon" routine that he's been flirting with for years. Seems like a ploy to keep his long time fans from leaving. He looks to be what, early 50's at the most? I'm well into my 40's and will happily plug along on my computer for work for the next 30 years if I live that long. Maybe just releasing the same game over and over again has accelerated the aging process?

To be fair, Queen's Wish is the exact sort of game series you would expect from a 51 year old man LARPing as Danny Glover from Lethal Weapon.



Fogel just has an ego. That's always been his problem.

 

[Zyondyne]

I understand that this guy's games appeal to a certain small niche, but c'mon. Are those people even playing his games from start to finish anymore or are they only supporting him from some weird sense of nostalgia?

While I can appreciate his persistence of doing his own thing for so many years (and being profitable enough to continue, that unless he funds these games from other business ventures out of blind passion) I can't really praise his lack of imagination.

There is no problem with retro graphics and retro mechanics, but it's mostly the same retro graphics, the same retro mechanics. He's been doing most of the same mistakes since Geneforge era. There is absolutely no reason for refusing to implement at least QoL features in 2021 besides plain stubbornness or technical incompetence.

I truly believe you can fully realize your game vision without perverting it AND upgrading it to more modern standards WITHOUT doing the same game over and over again for the past 20 years. But honestly, after so much time, I think even if he wanted to substantially change something, he couldn't really do it. He's probably too afraid of alienating most of his fanbase (but maybe gaining new people?) which isn't that large to begin it.

 

[Radiane]

QoL features? I never did miss anything while playing his games, and i have played much more modern games than Spiderweb Games, but well, i don´t back his games because as much as i do love this guy and his company, i admit that i am a cheap fuck and also, i just find his constant money begging unpleasant (i don´t care if that is considered a "standard" thing nowadays or not), but none the less i sicerely hope it turns out well for him and this game turns out to be another superb masterpiece from the great master himself. Can´t wait to play it

 

[V_K]

refusing to implement at least QoL features in 2021

He introduced quest markers (and I think quest compass) in Avadon.

Spoiler

 

[LudensCogitet]

I understand that this guy's games appeal to a certain small niche, but c'mon. Are those people even playing his games from start to finish anymore or are they only supporting him from some weird sense of nostalgia?

While I can appreciate his persistence of doing his own thing for so many years (and being profitable enough to continue, that unless he funds these games from other business ventures out of blind passion) I can't really praise his lack of imagination.

There is no problem with retro graphics and retro mechanics, but it's mostly the same retro graphics, the same retro mechanics. He's been doing most of the same mistakes since Geneforge era. There is absolutely no reason for refusing to implement at least QoL features in 2021 besides plain stubbornness or technical incompetence.

I truly believe you can fully realize your game vision without perverting it AND upgrading it to more modern standards WITHOUT doing the same game over and over again for the past 20 years. But honestly, after so much time, I think even if he wanted to substantially change something, he couldn't really do it. He's probably too afraid of alienating most of his fanbase (but maybe gaining new people?) which isn't that large to begin it.

How many of his games have you played? I ask for 2 reasons:

First, the criticisms you have are the criticisms of someone who has played many of his games. Did you play a bunch of them, and then a remaster made you decide he was just rehashing?

Second, because I haven't played many of his games myself. I played Queen's Wish all the way through (took me, like, 40 hours?) And I genuinely enjoyed it. I thought the base building was a bit thin, but the plot was interesting (Jeff is a an actually good _game_ writer), the tactical combat was consistently challenging, and I appreciated that it wasn't afraid to be a concise game system. Respecing between dungeons and having to do everything in one run may not be "realistic", but they made for interesting gameplay.

 

[MRY]

I really do wish Vogel and MRY teams up with Bioware and make AAA RPG we deserve.

~16 years ago I reached out to Vogel and offered to do writing for him for free, as I loved his games and their atmosphere but found Limoncello, etc., a bit grimace-inducing. He very politely declined, explaining that writing is one of his favorite parts.

The reason I ultimately stopped playing his games, though, was not the writing so much as that the formula was a bit repetitive, but when he varied from the formula, I found the variations generally made things less fun. As the gameplay engaged me less, what I recall to be the games' other flaws (lack of art direction; emphasis on tedious pre-buffing, rest-spamming, and grinding; lack of satisfying character progression/itemization at higher levels) outweighed the parts I enjoyed (particularly the exploration).

Probably my favorite experiences were the original Exile, Avernun 2 (the first Exile 2 remake), and Geneforge 1. I'm sure that's just idiosyncratic based on when I played them and has little to do with objective quality.

 

[MRY]

the reason Exile 1-3 were good was at the time he was just copying the then relevant Ultima

This doesn't seem right to me. Exile I was released after Ultima VIII; not only was the Ultima series declining in relevance, the Ultima game that Exile 1 is closest to is probably Ultima III or something (Exodus -> Exile feels naturaly), a game that was over a decade old at that point. (Subsequent Ultimas didn't offer full party creation, didn't have non-human party members, and they focused on morality aspects that are absent from Exile.) But the exploration in Exile doesn't feel anything like it does in the early Ultimas. If anything, I would say that the game took elements of Ultima III, Ultima VI (that's the first one where combat takes place seamlessly within exploration, right?), Gold Box games (the combat itself feels much more Gold Box than Ultima), some other source for character design (which has a point-buy system that is taken from yet another franchise), etc. His early games may have copied a lot of stuff, but they're a quilt of influences, not copying from a single source. And the world building is quite original (at least, it seemed so to me?).

I'll also agree with Elwro that I enjoyed Vogel's games more than the Ultima series. I'm sure if I'd played the Ultima games as they came out, it would've been an extraordinary childhood experience -- the progression from U4->U7 in particular. But I just dipped in and out and only played them seriously long after their releases. The Exile/Avernun (first remake)/Geneforge experience had more interest choices, more engaging gameplay, and better worldbuilding. I get why Ultima was groundbreaking, but the core of it was Garriott's love of Renaissance Fair/LARPing experiences, and that didn't really do much for me.