Red Dead Redemption 2 - now available on PC

[Sentinel]

So what? This was Arthur Morgan's story, not John Marston's. They completely marginalized their own protagonist.

How? Arthur's story and character surpasses that of John's. Even John's epilogue arc revolves around Arthur's actions. If anything, Marston got marginalized in the epilogue, not Arthur. Hell, even in RDR1 you could say that Marston got retroactively marginalized, since when Dutch is face to face with him, he gives him the same speech he gave Arthur/the cops on that cliff, revealing that even at that moment Dutch was thinking of Arthur, instead of actually talking to John.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

With a completly overrated boring as death story about some sociopath fooling a bunch of gullible morons into doing the same stupid shit over and over and over again. And you play the gullible morons.

I'm amazed that you didn't get this story. It's not exactly poetry for which you require knowledge & workshop to understand all that the writer was trying to convey, you know.

Spoiler

First of all, the Dutch giving the first speech in the game at Colter is not the same Dutch at Lakay/Beaver Hollow. Well, you can argue that he may be, given that his apparent decline and changes in behavior started to happen offscreen a bit before the Blackwater massacre and leading to it, but that is still open to interpretation, which even main characters & Sadie talk about explicitly.

Still, while it is possible that he was, like you said, psychopath from the get-go manipulating everyone, it is also possible that the events of RDR2 (the gang getting into increasingly more trouble & pressure from encroaching law & order, deaths of many members, above all Hosea i.e. the yin to Dutch's yang, influence of Micah, Dutch sustaining brain damage during Saint Denis trolley robbery, and so on) was too much for Dutch, his ego or his sanity to handle. Or maybe he was deluding himself in good faith, that he was a better man than he deep down really was, until it was not possible anymore, with combination of either of the factors listed above.

All in all, as it happens often in real life, there is no clear, singular interpretation to one's "true character", actions and underlying motivations, and human history is full of examples of such people.

Also, to say that you play as "gullible morons" leads me to believe that you did not pay attention to Arthur or John's backstory, and you apparently also do not understand how, once again arguably depending on the interpretation, decades-long friendships, quasi-familial ties, co-dependent relationships, or cults work.

 

[Drakron]

No, I started hating the game once I started playing it. Most heavily scripted, you cannot walk 2 steps off the prescribed path, dumbed down game I've ever played. With a completly overrated boring as death story about some sociopath fooling a bunch of gullible morons into doing the same stupid shit over and over and over again. And you play the gullible morons. Once you look past the pretty graphics and physics, this game is absolute horseshit.

You are playing a 2018 Rockstar game.
But I will say you are entirely right about Dutch since RDR2 made him a fucktard that never gets anything right making the deal about having to kill him in RDR completely stupid as a result as the rest of the gang being mostly gullible morons, RDR2 would been better with Dutch as a protagonist instead of that cardboard outline named Arthur Morgan.

But you should be aware that people will defend this because Rockstar can do no wrong, just like people did with Bethesda "it just works" ... then again the whole thing was so they could pull another GTAO anyway.

 

[sullynathan]

Porky es stupido

 

[Sentinel]

No, I started hating the game once I started playing it. Most heavily scripted, you cannot walk 2 steps off the prescribed path, dumbed down game I've ever played. With a completly overrated boring as death story about some sociopath fooling a bunch of gullible morons into doing the same stupid shit over and over and over again. And you play the gullible morons. Once you look past the pretty graphics and physics, this game is absolute horseshit.

You are playing a 2018 Rockstar game.
But I will say you are entirely right about Dutch since RDR2 made him a fucktard that never gets anything right making the deal about having to kill him in RDR completely stupid as a result as the rest of the gang being mostly gullible morons, RDR2 would been better with Dutch as a protagonist instead of that cardboard outline named Arthur Morgan.

But you should be aware that people will defend this because Rockstar can do no wrong, just like people did with Bethesda "it just works" ... then again the whole thing was so they could pull another GTAO anyway.

Nothing regarding Dutch in RDR2 contradicts anything in RDR1. He was hunted in RDR1 because he was one of the few surviving members of one of the most dangerous gangs. That's it. Not because he was a genius. Moreover, RDR1 makes it very explicit that Dutch had lost his marbles. John says as much, and Dutch's completely unkept appearance and near incoherent speech reflects it.

All RDR2 does is give you 4 theories on why Dutch went bananas.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

How?

By having his supposedly climactic death followed by 10 hours of milking cows, cleaning up horse manure, and fishing. Followed by another guy doing what he should've rightly done. Do you want to see how to do what Rockstar was trying to do here properly? Watch The Shootist or the end of Gran Torino. There you have cool characters doing decisive things in tough circumstances to help others. Not the way Arthur went out like a dog.

I'm amazed that you didn't get this story. It's not exactly poetry for which you require knowledge & workshop to understand all that the writer was trying to convey, you know.

Not liking a terrible story is not the same as not getting it.

Spoiler

First of all, the Dutch giving the first speech in the game at Colter is not the same Dutch at Lakay/Beaver Hollow. Well, you can argue that he may be, given that his apparent decline and changes in behavior started to happen offscreen a bit before the Blackwater massacre and leading to it, but that is still open to interpretation, which even main characters & Sadie talk about explicitly.

Still, while it is possible that he was, like you said, psychopath from the get-go manipulating everyone, it is also possible that the events of RDR2 (the gang getting into increasingly more trouble & pressure from encroaching law & order, deaths of many members, above all Hosea i.e. the yin to Dutch's yang, influence of Micah, Dutch sustaining brain damage during Saint Denis trolley robbery, and so on) was too much for Dutch, his ego or his sanity to handle. Or maybe he was deluding himself in good faith, that he was a better man than he deep down really was, until it was not possible anymore, with combination of either of the factors listed above.

All in all, as it happens often in real life, there is no clear, singular interpretation to one's "true character", actions and underlying motivations, and human history is full of examples of such people.

Also, to say that you play as "gullible morons" leads me to believe that you did not pay attention to Arthur or John's backstory, and you apparently also do not understand how, once again arguably depending on the interpretation, decades-long friendships, quasi-familial ties, co-dependent relationships, or cults work.

Bullshit, even the characters in the game come to the conclusion Dutch was full of shit all along. He is a caricature sociopath, right away anyone with half a brain can tell he is no good, and why it took idiots like Arthur and John 100 hours to figure this out is beyond understanding. The bottom line is it's a stupid, boring story, kind of like watching a 100 hour long movie of a housewife getting domestically abused while rationalizing it with stupid shit.

 

[Sentinel]

Have you been diagnosed for autism? How are you judging Arthur/Dutch/John's characters from your player perspective, assuming the characters have access to all the info and resources the player has? Also how are you unable to understand that Arthur was a deeply loyal man? Are you actually incapable of understanding other points of view?

Followed by another guy doing what he should've rightly done.

Arthur had no reason to shoot Micah before Chapter 6. Not any more reason than he has to shoot Bill or Sean.

By having his supposedly climactic death followed by 10 hours of milking cows, cleaning up horse manure, and fishing.

Seems like a nice change of pace to me. Seeing as it is a cowboy game, it's pretty fitting too.

 

[DalekFlay]

All you console fuckers with your Red Dead 1 discussion.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

Bullshit, even the characters in the game come to the conclusion Dutch was full of shit all along. He is a caricature sociopath

So you weren't paying attention.

why it took idiots like Arthur and John 100 hours to figure this out is beyond understanding. The bottom line is it's a stupid, boring story, kind of like watching a 100 hour long movie of a housewife getting domestically abused while rationalizing it with stupid shit.

Arthur has been riding with Dutch for 30 YEARS. John, less, and despite Dutch being his foster father as well, he did not subscribe to his worldview just as much, which is why he's starting to turn completely around before Shady Belle. And completely unrelated, people being in abusive relationships last in them far longer than 2 months or so, especially if they were troubled or broken before. Which they both were, if you recall what i.e. happened with Eliza.

What is beyong understanding, but speaks volumes is how you spent 100 hours on something you hate so much.

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

All you console fuckers with your Red Dead 1 discussion.

It's available for PS Now, which is a week-long trial and 10 bucks subscription. Worth getting it for Bloodborne alone.

 

[Belegarsson]

By having his supposedly climactic death followed by 10 hours of milking cows, cleaning up horse manure, and fishing. Followed by another guy doing what he should've rightly done. Do you want to see how to do what Rockstar was trying to do here properly? Watch The Shootist or the end of Gran Torino. There you have cool characters doing decisive things in tough circumstances to help others. Not the way Arthur went out like a dog.


Not liking a terrible story is not the same as not getting it.


Bullshit, even the characters in the game come to the conclusion Dutch was full of shit all along. He is a caricature sociopath, right away anyone with half a brain can tell he is no good, and why it took idiots like Arthur and John 100 hours to figure this out is beyond understanding. The bottom line is it's a stupid, boring story, kind of like watching a 100 hour long movie of a housewife getting domestically abused while rationalizing it with stupid shit.

Good lord you are dense. First, comparing a 60+ hour game with more flexible narrative structure than concise movies that can only last within 2 hours. Second, Arthur and Walt Kowalski's deaths serve exactly the same purpose, the differenece is Gran Torino's ending wasn't meant to set up a new thematic element, which leads to third, I already said above, those 10 hours of John milking cows, cleaning up manure, fishing and proposing to Abigail made the very final ending more tragic, because we already saw and experienced first hand how he was getting his family's life back together yet it will collapse due to an act of honor - vengeance. I'm sorry you're disappointed Arthur died before coming out untouched in a real badass shootout, but that's just the theme of RDR2, it was destined from the beginning that these runaways, especially the ones with blood on their hand like Arthur, will never be able to live a normal life, no matter how much they sacrifice and what their redemption is.

You are fucking comparing your perspective towards Dutch as a viewer to Arthur's and John's, one has loyalty issue as his biggest flaw and one that has more baggage on his back (his wife and child) than anyone in the group which forced him to put up with Dutch's bullshit. Have you ever been in an abusive relationship before? If not then go develop some empathy/sympathy sense then come back, maybe you'll not only be more understandable towards these people, but also become a bit better person in real life.

It's not that the game's storytelling is shit, you're just deliberately finding reasons to hate it because you just can't bear with the fact that the game with gameplay you hate actually has pretty decent narrative. Instead of accepting the game's theme and narrative purposes, you just brush them off because they are "not highly sophisticate work of art". Hey genius, you don't have to be kino shit to contain meaningful storytelling. I might understand if you get what the story's saying but doesn't really feel for it but so far your reasoning is shit, because your criticisms are shallow and you successfully proved that your comprehension of the story is as narrow as the game's linearity.

 

[DalekFlay]

It's available for PS Now, which is a week-long trial and 10 bucks subscription. Worth getting it for Bloodborne alone.

Ain't supporting streaming, ain't playing anything with shooting with a gamepad, ain't dealing with compression and lag. I don't even like this game much, so it's not even tempting.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Have you been diagnosed for autism? How are you judging Arthur/Dutch/John's characters from your player perspective, assuming the characters have access to all the info and resources the player has? Also how are you unable to understand that Arthur was a deeply loyal man? Are you actually incapable of understanding other points of view?

I have exactly the same access as they do, since all the cut-scenes I see involve them. Nice try though.

Dogs are deeply loyal. But if you keep kicking them, they will snarl and eventually bite you. There is a difference between loyalty and stupidity, and this game crossed it very early on.

Seems like a nice change of pace to me. Seeing as it is a cowboy game, it's pretty fitting too.

Gee, I wonder why Romeo and Juliet didn't have 10 scenes after they died of their parents flowering their garden...

...those 10 hours of John milking cows, cleaning up manure, fishing and proposing to Abigail made the very final ending more tragic...

No, they didn't. They just wasted 5-10 hours of the player's time for no good reason whatsoever. Anything that had to be said could've easily been said in a cut-scene, or in a more dramatic mission(s). And as you yourself point out, they were completely pointless, since we all know John is never going to be a regular farmer. A complete waste of time.

Have you ever been in an abusive relationship before? If not then go develop some empathy/sympathy sense then come back, maybe you'll not only be more understandable towards these people, but also become a bit better person in real life.

Nice strawman there, bud. Abusive relationships in RL are one thing, but they sure as hell don't belong in an otherwise extremely shallow action adventure game meant for entertainment. Not any more than dying of tuberculosis for half the game. It's like if in a middle of a Chuck Norris movie, Chuck's character started philosophizing about life and went to serve in a lepper colony.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I bought this for about 40% off (Epic Store sale + coupon), played a couple of hours and already asked for a refund. Hope it goes through.

I've never seen a more railroaded game in my life. What little gameplay there is, is hampered by too many inputs and overlong animations for everything. I don't particularly care about story in videogames, and it's insufferable when writers take themselves too seriously, as seems to be the case here.

The open world feels like a clunkier and much slower Breath of the Wild - it does look very pretty though. No thanks.

 

[Mazisky]

I bought this for about 40% off (Epic Store sale + coupon), played a couple of hours and already asked for a refund. Hope it goes through.

I've never seen a more railroaded game in my life. What little gameplay there is, is hampered by too many inputs and overlong animations for everything. I don't particularly care about story in videogames, and it's insufferable when writers take themselves too seriously, as seems to be the case here.

The open world feels like a clunkier and much slower Breath of the Wild - it does look very pretty though. No thanks.

First 2 hours are railroaded because they act as a tutorial. After you will arrive at the camp, the game becomes open and free-roam.

 

[Burning Bridges]

What did you expect? This is a popamole game.

Also, since when does Epic do refunds?

 

[Burning Bridges]

I've never seen a more railroaded game in my life.

You never played Kingdom Come Deliverance?

 

[Jinn]

I'd like to play this someday if a good difficulty mod comes out. I want to play a cowboy game like this, but it seems like I wouldn't like it much in its current state.

 

[cvv]

This is a first-class storyfag/immersionfag game. Gameplayfags should go play DMC5 or Nintendo or something and stop bitching about RDR2.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Nintendo

Is that on PC?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

It is by far the most railroaded game in the history of open world games. It's amazing to what degree the Rockstar designers are clueless about how open world games work, or arrogant to where they feel like they can not just disregard what makes open world games work but actively break it (as in whenever you use emergent open world elements to get something done, they punish you for this with mission over screens, because you deviated 2 steps from their cinematic prescribed pathway). Truly one of the worst games I've ever played.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Maybe they realized that Open World games are shit?

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

This is game where you get buttfugged by hobo, only the most prestigious immersion fags can take it.

 

[Wunderbar]

This is a first-class storyfag/immersionfag game. Gameplayfags should go play DMC5 or Nintendo or something and stop bitching about RDR2.

"Mission failed! You walked a bit too fast."

very immersive.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG