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Red Dead Redemption 2 - now available on PC

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Digger Nick
each weapon in each category arent too different aside from stat that barely made difference.

??

I understand that weapons selection is a tad limited given the setting, but that's just bullshit. Each weapon is as different as the mechanics allow them to be (kick/bloom, effective range, reload time). Evans and Litchfield are pretty much different categories (the latter is fucking useless without a scope, and it still behaves significantly there than i.e. Carcano). Double-Action and Navy Revolvers are as different as it can get. And then there is fucking LeMat.

Now then, that comment is 100% true for RDR1. Every gun sounded the very same and was 100% accurate, differing only in ammo size and power, maybe with the exception of Pistol/Mauser. You didn't even have to reload because Dead Eye just reset it.
 

DalekFlay

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I couldn't imagine playing it any other way. Aren't you a fan of controllers? RDR2 is quite a console centric game so that gives me a bit of cover on the 'Dex.

I can't imagine preferring a controller for anything with shooting in it. I'm a PC only guy for 25 years though, so obviously I am not impartial.
 

Ezekiel

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I couldn't imagine playing it any other way. Aren't you a fan of controllers? RDR2 is quite a console centric game so that gives me a bit of cover on the 'Dex.
The console controls are why I sold this game after just a few hours. The aiming was so bad that I felt forced to use the Soft Lock option for the first time in a Rockstar game. I could manage the first Red Dead Redemption fine with Free Aim. Didn't like having to press Circle down so much either, since Rockstar thinks default movement on an ANALOG stick should be walking. I still haven't gotten the PC version. Won't until I find it for twenty dollars. But I imagine the keyboard and mouse makes things somewhat better. My pinky finger will already be resting on the run button.

weighty combat
shooting is abysmal imo. i like the game for its characters, plot, atmosphere and overall worldcraft, but the shooting is one of the dullest i have ever played.

all weapon types feel the same, the dot have pretty much 100% accuracy, headshots are too easy to achieve, zero enemy variety and sub-par AI (couldn;t achieve what max payne 3 did 8 years ago and never will)

It's because they had to live up to what people expected from Max Payne, to an extent. With their own franchises, there is none of that expectation. They're free to go mad with authenticity, which means moving like an out of shape middle-aged man. Max Payne 3 feels much snappier and more responsive than anything they've made since. I also love that you can swap the camera from side to side at any point, whereas RDR2 forces you to aim first, which blinds you when making your way around a right corner. In Max Payne 3, I would swap the camera like twelve times in a minute.
 

DalekFlay

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The console controls are why I sold this game after just a few hours. The aiming was so bad that I felt forced to use the Soft Lock option for the first time in a Rockstar game. I could manage the first Red Dead Redemption fine with Free Aim. Didn't like having to press Circle down so much either, since Rockstar thinks default movement on an ANALOG stick should be walking. I still haven't gotten the PC version. Won't until I find it for twenty dollars. But I imagine the keyboard and mouse makes things somewhat better. My pinky finger will already be resting on the run button.

The controls are still annoying on PC but none of it has anything to do with mouse and keyboard, it's all because of how cumbersome Rockstar made doing anything in that game.
 
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I'll just add, that:

The aiming was so bad that I felt forced to use the Soft Lock option for the first time in a Rockstar game. I could manage the first Red Dead Redemption fine with Free Aim.

Did you? Well, that is a new level of autism/consoletardism here, congratulations

Didn't like having to press Circle down so much either, since Rockstar thinks default movement on an ANALOG stick should be walking. I still haven't gotten the PC version. Won't until I find it for twenty dollars. But I imagine the keyboard and mouse makes things somewhat better. My pinky finger will already be resting on the run button.

Uhm... you know you can press it just once? Unless we're talking about sprinting at the top of your lungs, and not just running, but then again, it's like that in countless other games.

The controls are still annoying on PC but none of it has anything to do with mouse and keyboard, it's all because of how cumbersome Rockstar made doing anything in that game.

I'd say the main problem in all of Rockstar's PC re-releases is how absolutely trivial the game becomes, where you can aim at everything with mouse in a split-second, compared to a console where you're much more vulnerable.

BTW, Why are you guys even spending so much time to hate on it? Story Mode is easily something on a level of Breaking Bad, no more, no less. Does it have extremely serious problems with game design in Story Mode? Yeah, obviously, but I don't see many posts coherently addressing really fundamental issues with its gameplay (which is most welcome), and the rest is at the very best contrarian grasping at straws. (have to press 1 of all 10 buttons on muh gamepad too much, omg!)

Meanwhile, when it comes to RDR2 strengths, steering away from the "move 5 meters away from the script and mission failed" philosophy, as well as RDR1 tempo of gameplay/design choices/mission design, Red Dead Online is already beginning to shine (not that it means much on this wasteland) and improve on the Story mode in every imaginable way. Did anyone even boot this single player, "Online" in name only, game even once?
 

DalekFlay

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BTW, Why are you guys even spending so much time to hate on it? Story Mode is easily something on a level of Breaking Bad, no more, no less. Does it have extremely serious problems with game design in Story Mode? Yeah, obviously, but I don't see many posts coherently addressing really fundamental issues with its gameplay (which is most welcome), and the rest is at the very best contrarian grasping at straws. (have to press 1 of all 10 buttons on muh gamepad too much, omg!)

I think your "so much time" comment is BS, but in general I found the game disappointing so I'm gonna say that when it comes up. The focus on immersion harms the gameplay because everything is drawn out and cumbersome, that's the main issue. Everything else is mostly quibbles. And I have zero interest in online play so whether that is good or bad is irrelevant.
 
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After each time you stop, from what I remember. Didn't like it in GTA IV or V or RDR1.

Was it truly like that in RDR1? Oh, great. Just shows how memorable was that gameplay :lol:

No offense meant by what I said above, by the way. I felt RDR1 was a great GTA-clone-esque game, especially the "Spaghetti western" Mexico and "Revisionist-Western"-West Elizabeth/Beecher's Hope, but the gameplay was absolutely expendable, even by "GTA" standards.

I think your "so much time" comment is BS, but in general I found the game disappointing so I'm gonna say that when it comes up.

Hm, during all those ears I've never marked any thread as such. Point taken. Anyway,

And I have zero interest in online play so whether that is good or bad is irrelevant.

That is absolutely understandable and appreciable. However, "Red Dead Online" is "Online" only in a sense that Metal Gear Solid V is "Online", in a sense that whenever you feel like going for an FOB, you do; If you don't, then everything's fine, enjoy your 100% singleplayer experience.

RDO is basically another, extended, far superior single player mode. Whereas all the kids are busy with GTA Online/Fortnite, here all the "online" shit are people who'd rather just leave you alone in Free roam, and cooperate in Events. While the "core" of the gameplay is the same, it still plays speed-wise like RDR1. Difficulty wise, try Red Ben Clempson and Ownhoot Family on 5 stars and you can appreciate the engine's potential. Way better than everything toxic you may experience from 2020 internet, and, I may add, there's still no "Heists" equivalent so far.
 
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typical user

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I've finished the story and it's impossible for me to say I didn't like the game. I am now doing a 100 % replay and it is huge pain in the ass. I still think the side-activities are absolute ass because you get trophies and trinkets that give you +10% health/stamina/dead-eye XP/core regen when you can easily max those stats in Chapter 2 and regenerate cores with cooked meats from empty to full. The only - I mean ONLY - meaningful upgrades are satchels especially The Legend of the East which allows you to carry 99 of each item. The balance is non-existent like I said before. I can easily shoot up hundreds of lawmen and I actually did in Blackwater as Arthur - with 99 tobacco gums to refill deadeye and dual-wielding 2 Schofield revolvers you can keep paving your way out or taking a stand in Sheriff's office or on rooftops. I wish the AI wouldn't be as oblivious to the slaughterhouse and would give-up the fight for town when a maniac shoots every inhabitant, their cousins, enitre army regiment and more without breaking a sweat. The destruction system is rad on the other hand. Nothing gives more proper message than throwing a molotov at sheriff's office and watching it burn down. I wish there was more enviromental destruction in GTA like in RDR2.

The balance itself on PC results in stupid situations when the game has to spawn hundreds of NPCs in missions - like in Saint Denis bank job. It feels like Call of Duty when the game keeps throwing shit at you until you reach next checkpoint.

My current issues which I have noted after 100 hours:
-NPCs are super aggressive and respond with hostility to minor signs of inconvenience. Yesterday some dickwad wanted to report me for disturbing peace when I was running around the alley in search for vampire clues - I didn't antagonize anyone, didn't bump into anything no nothing. Needless to say I was pissed and proceeded to teach the lawmen some "crimes" should be left unpunished.
-NPCs also are completely dumb when riding horses. On many occasions they will turn their steed resulting in a crash in full gallop. Of course aggressive they are, when they get up they draw their guns as if it was my fault they couldn't stop or keep riding in straight line. Before I tried to defuse the situation by hogtieing them. Now I just blast them to kingdom come with sawn-off in point blank for hurting my horse and acting like I am at fault.
-Wanted system is utterly ridiculous. I once shot up 5 flying birds from top of a train for sharpshooter challenge. The train guards immediately knew who I was - "Wanted Arthur Morgan". The game immediately magically spawned lawmen in Amborino mountains - I've generated $265 bounty in complete sticks because the posse tried to swarm me. What I mean by this, NPCs can easily identify you through walls even when you are wearing mask. They can easily locate you in complete backwater of the world and the law response time is approximately 1 minute even when you are in snowy mountains away from civilization. EDIT: Also if you hogtie law member and carry him on/behind your horse he will report in realtime where you are and the search circle will constantly update. Either telepathy or complete bullshit - go figure.
-Also bounty hunters are retarded, they spawn every 10 minutes and always converge on your current location like if they were 19th century NSA. I pay off my bounties because they won't allow me to hunt in peace otherwise I wouldn't care.
-The animal spawn-system is broken. For over 100 hours I have encountered only ONE moose and it was a female when I need the male antlers or whatever those are called. Spawning American Paint was also pain in the ass as the game would only generate Kentucky Saddlers or Morgans. The most ridiculous part was when I tried spawning moose in snowy parts of Amborino by throwing baits around and the game spawned a goddamn black horse.
-Pearson is a fat dick. I have reloaded the game 10 times, left and reentered camp another 10 times and that bastard still doesn't want to give me his camp request for unique jacket.
-The trapper asks me to shoot up pigs, sheep and cattle to make clothes from their pelts. The game clearly wants me to be a psychopath murdering ranchers. Same thing with challenges for banditry or weapon expert.
-Speaking of challenges, what irritates me is their lack of retroactivity. Picked up 20 herbs? Herbalist challenge 9 doesn't care. You have to pick them all over again. Oh and also make an excel spreadsheet, because fuck well designed UI, keep track of them yourself. Huntsman challenge 2, hunt 3 pristine rabbits. Challenge 7 use herbivore and predator bait and kill lured animals. *balanced*
-After skinning animal you will draw your revolver when you press TAB. I would expect the game to remember the last weapon I used.
-Oh and last thing before I forget. New Austin or rather New Autism is locked for Arthur and by god you can't enter there or an invisible sniper will use instant transmission to teleport like a weeb behind the camera and shoot you in the head. Also Pinkertons will gang-up on you and shoot with perfect accuracy at you and your horse to make sure you don't reach Lower Montana river. It didn't stop me from stealing a stagecoach wagon and dabbing on Rockstar's pathetic attempts to prevent me from exploring that region. If it weren't for unique journal entries from Arthur I wouldn't really bother.

Like I said I am pissed when I usually try to remain friendly. The game is detailed but it lacks details in gameplay mechanics unless of course you try to force yourself into epilogue regions - and why wouldn't you? Did you know you can complete the dinosaur bones quest as Arthur? How about Herbalist Challenge 9? Or crafting clothes from animal pelts which spawn only in New Austin?

Recommend for story. If you want solid gameplay or 100 % completion avoid like a plague. The animal spawn system, challenges and retarded AI will make you question how you spend your free time. At least Cyberpunk 2077 releases next week (hopefully) and I will be able to play something less mechanically autistic (hopefully x2).
 
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RobotSquirrel

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interesting that they opted to splinter the online stuff into a stand alone game. I think its probably got to do with the fact that CDProjekt are doing it with Cyberpunks multiplayer. They're probably testing to see if it makes more sense to release Online games as standalone. Not sure how I feel about that tbh knowing its loaded with MTX.
 

Dodo1610

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I really loved the story, world and atmosphere but my biggest complaint is that it's ludo narrative dissonance the Game tm.
You get told that gangs don't work anymore but they are everywhere, they tell you that you have to fear the law but you can kill them in the dozens.
You get sick during the story butinstantly heal gunshots by drinking meds.

Though the gunplay is clearly the best among open world Rockstar games.Shooting someone is actually fun for the first time at least in first person.
 
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Shooting someone is actually fun for the first time at least in first person.
It's that Euphoria nonsense that combines animations and ragdolling, as well as some nice gore effects. They got that shit started in GTA4 and have been tweaking and getting better at it in every game since, it's kind of irritating how much better flopping corpses are in a Rockstar game compared to anything else. Wish more developers put as much care into it as Rockstar since it adds a lot.
 

Sentinel

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You get told that gangs don't work anymore but they are everywhere, they tell you that you have to fear the law but you can kill them in the dozens.
Wut? Aren't there only 3 gangs in the game? Dutch, O'Driscoll and the ones in post-game that aren't connected to anything in the story at all (they just took over the fort down south that you can liberate). Pretty sure none of the games ever imply that gangs or crime doesnt work anymore anyway.
 
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You get told that gangs don't work anymore but they are everywhere, they tell you that you have to fear the law but you can kill them in the dozens.
Wut? Aren't there only 3 gangs in the game? Dutch, O'Driscoll and the ones in post-game that aren't connected to anything in the story at all (they just took over the fort down south that you can liberate). Pretty sure none of the games ever imply that gangs or crime doesnt work anymore anyway.

All of the gangs are tied to the story - Lemoyne Raiders, Murfree Brood, Del Lobos and Skinner Brothers. You can also say there's Laramie Gang, but it's just an extortion racket for the major of Strawberry.

There's also Night Folk, if you can call ritualistic voodoo killers a "gang", I guess.
 
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interesting that they opted to splinter the online stuff into a stand alone game. I think its probably got to do with the fact that CDProjekt are doing it with Cyberpunks multiplayer. They're probably testing to see if it makes more sense to release Online games as standalone. Not sure how I feel about that tbh knowing its loaded with MTX.

It seems Red Dead Online is underperforming, and they want to attract as many people as possible without locking it behind a $60 game. GTA Online never needed it considering that everyone got it, or can now for peanuts on sale.

No coincidence that they also nerfed daily challenges gold payouts to oblivion. Hate to be the devil's advocate, but it's a right call, as it was completely broken and no one had any incentive to buy/earn in other ways any gold ever. Looking at the influx of new players, seems they were right.
 

Slaver1

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It's so immersive and well written and gorgeous. Ironic this was a console game for a long time, available only to an audience of impatient drooling mouthbreathers who "missed" half of what R* wanted to say with it.
 

Ezekiel

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So how much can you actually do in the 5 dollar RDR Online before it forces you to use your credit card?
 

spectre

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I demo'ed it because I could. Wasn't at all sure if it's my cup of tea since I was rather disappointed by the GTAs after San Andreas.
First impression is actually rather favorable. The controls are pretty rough around the edges and the overall pace of the game takes a bit of getting used to.
The game could also be better at communicating certain things. Took me a while to figure out that I need to clean weapons before customizing them,
or that horse selling price depends on bondage level.
It does one important thing for me that a lot of open world games never really do - I can get on that horse and fuck off into the wilderness to do stuff.
It's something I wish Mountain Blade could let me do.
The hunting mechanics are exactly where I want them to be: engaging enough, but not autistic, and there are plenty of immersive and not entirely pointless activities.
And then every once in a while I get bored and decide to get back to the main quest (which I'm not very far into).

The game world feels reasonably reactive, acknowledging most of the stuff you do, without the ham-fistedness of Oblivion. I've yet to run into duplicate content
that would feel annoying. I know Immershun is a buzzword we used to mock thoroughly around these parts, but I think this game deserves praise for the effort.
Another rare thing about Rockstar is they are actually able to pull off a coherent narrative with decent characters and interactions between them.
Like I said, I'm not too far in the main story, but I haven't seen any signs about the game being preachy or overly political just yet.

I'm not too keen about some of the design decision, e.g. how pretty much all of the quests are timed if you want to get 100% completion,
or the way challenges are structured - later stages do not track what you did earlier.
 

Stavrophore

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Strap Yourselves In
I've finished RDR2 and epilogue. What i can say -it's a rockstar quality kind of game.
Deconstructing the game by constituents:

1. Graphics and engine
There's nothing much to say -the game is beautiful with right settings. The biggest problem that PC players will notice, who don't use MSAA or higher rendering scale, is the vaseline effect of TAA when you move. It's horrible, it strains your eye until you adapt. There are many settings that won't increase visual fidelity much but take performance -the game literally needs a youtube guide to be set properly to have acceptable ie. 80 fps frames. Other than that, the engine is great, animations are top notch, physics is top notch. Textures, models are great. Overall as i said, rockstar quality!

2. Sound
As it should be -it's there when it needs to be. The musical tunes complement the quest atmopshere. Nothing to fret about it -it's great.

3. UI and controls
As we know, good UI makes the game. For PC version, RDR2 UI and controls are horrible. From the get go you need to change the horse camera and controls. Still the horse handling will be terrible.The item and gun wheel that force you to use lots of keys and scrolling through items is good for consoles, but for PCs its horrible. Game takes your weapons into your horse, despite setting default equipment. It's annoying to take of the guns from horse -worse if you forgot them and mission already started. Re equipping hat-ugh, why not do this automatically when i get on a horse?

4. Gameplay elements and difficulty
Gameplay mechanics are just...OK. Combat is extremely easy with deadeye and amount of consumables you can carry. You can make 16 headshot with lancaster gun with deadeye in no time, while you won't take any damage. You can whitstand like 20 shots, before you need to eat anything. There's no gun sway unless you drink alcohol, and its still easy to manage. I mean i understand they wanted the cinematic feel and you being invincible, but common, gameplay make the game! At least give players a hard mode, even simple changes like:

- Lower health

- Increase energy loss

- Disable dead eye, or make it very sparse

- No aim help with deadeye

- Reduce loot on corpses

- Reduce the quantity of consumables that we can transport

- Reduce the amount of ammo

This changes don't need gameplay/engine rework to be implemented.
Hunting is annoying because you need certain weapons for certain animals, and these weapons will be unlocked only at the end of game, therefore you are cockblocked to hunt for legendary/pristine pelts... Pelts also pay poorly compared to robberies and other activities, so why bother beside crafting? Fishing is another "immersion" game that doesn't pay well or contribute to the game in meaningful way. Is this a fishing simulator or gunslinger simulator? Why instead of these useless activities, give us possibility to start a gang, hire people, upgrade hideout -a good money sink, because you have no other way to spend big money other than buying...clothes. Why not add free roam after the epilogue, with proceduraly generated quests and gang management al'a ETS? Even stupid courier game where you deliver packages, spice it with gang attacks.Might squeeze few more hours from players doing things that are more interesting than fishing or playing poker...and poker and blackjack i can understand, but why domino? :D

About mature aspects: There's no explicit nudity in the game or sex scenes, which is kinda weird. Not enough whoring for a life of a gunslinger. The whole dutch band could be described as homosexuals if it wasn't for John :). Maybe that's some rockstar crude joke that "cowboys" do it with cows or horses? Idk, the man has his needs. You can go on date with your exwife, help a lady in the woods, but there's nothing more to it. You feel like a cuck doing this.

Game is not even a looter shooter, it's a mindless cover shooter[well you don't need cover with deadeye and decent aim]. There's no character progression, there are no stats, no abilities, the gun selection doesn't matter, horses have similar speed -all of these options are very bland. It feels like it's just a filler to claim the game is sandbox, while what it should be -a story focused gunslinger simulator with all necessary elements to it.From combatfag persepctive the game is just poor.So we continue to...

5. Story
If i had to describe story with one word it would be: dissatisfying. The story arc is very simple it's a tale of betrayal that we saw many times in literature or movies. But the execution of the story is lackluster. There are no plot twist along the way, the character that should be our antagonist, or we could choose as antagonist, never really become one. You can't kill him, instead you focus on his minion that was feeding him and his grandiose ego, seeing opportunity for exploitation as the leader is a hotheaded idiot with agenda on mind. There is a situation where you are offered betrayal, and from that time, the game should let you make a decision and split -either you work with dutch or betray him. This is of course if we assume that the story that rockstar conceived should stay in place and not be scrapped completely for something that is a proper gunslinger story -a band of hardened men that plunder people. Instead we got a story about a soft hearthed socialist-anarchist-primitivist idiot, whose true agenda is to pit industrialists, bourgeouise, government and indiands against each other, because of "social justice" and hatred toward modern, industrialist, capitalist world with developing civilization. There's also just plain stupid revenge that get Dutch into trouble and starting from scratch once again. During the game we partake in a lot of activities of babysitting other people and doing selfless acts, which is contrary to what a true gunslinger/bandit would do. Game just like most of the games of 2020 panders to certain ideological viewpoints, albeit in semi ambigious way, redeeming it with sane snarky comments during the SJW missions. The prominent ideological theme in the game are: antiracism pandering[trying to make you friends with lennyt], feminist pandering[mission with escorting feminists], the myth of noble savage[indians are literally saint in the game, always provoked by US government], socialist commentary from dutch, anticapitalist action against bourgeouise concocted by dutch, slave[?]/socialist uprising in Guarma. Then there's the whole theme of inbreed rednecks, stupid uneducated, backward bigots of south, how retarded and stupid and worthless these people are. It's not targeted just at certain individual, there are disrespectful comments about whole town[Rhodes] and its inhabitants -a collective responsibility. Imagine a game, where characters would talk about black community saying: low iq, worthless, lazy retard welfare monkeys. There would be outrage.

Arthur metamorphosis in the story also feel forced. He goes from being very obedient to being unruly very quickly and it feels fake. He nag and complains way too much, and that was probably rockstar decision to strongly emphasis that he has changed and doesn't believe dutch anymore. But it's so hamfisted and too frequent it started to annoy me a little. If you are so torn up and complaining, why the hell you even go along with his plan? Why won't you leave, or help the people you wanted and confront Dutch, maybe even killing him, as he clearly went of rails and endangers other people? It doesn't make sense. I haven't played as evil character so i don't know if there is a big change in plot. From what i've seen on youtube, there's only minor change, but i might be wrong. Still the same problems are left, with Dutch being alive and no true resolution.

I've actually enjoyed epilogue more than the main plot, bar the ending which was as i said unfulfilling. Epilogue actually felt more like a gunslinger tale -you have a clear goal, you work and earn for yourself. I would actually like to see a main plot like that -you start as a farm boy, the farm gets robbed and you get yourself acquainted with the gunslinger profession by accident as you defend the farm and then try to oust the competitor on the orders of landowner. Then you see that throwing cowshit on wheelbarrow is not for you and you move out from farm, possibly taking someone with you. You then start a band of robbers. I understand that rockstar wanted to continue the story from first RDR, so that's why they accomodated old characters. I think that's a mistake, but i haven't played first game so i can't decisively judge this.

But...even through all these pitfalls, the story was interesting enough for me, and cling me to the screen, hoping for a resolution, as the conflict arised. It's rare for me to not skip cutscenes in games today, and i haven't skipped one in RDR2. This speaks that the pacing, and plot was interesting enough, characters well made, and were acting well. And of course as rockstar games have get us used to -the story was cinematic as hell. The variety of missions, activities made up for other game problems. There was even a balloon mission, with balloon chase. Such moments encited you to play more and see what screenwriters had come up with.

My overall score of the game -it's 8+/10. I've scored high just because the game graphic and world feels very authentic. It's a very well done game in that regards. Without these elements it would be 7/10 at most.
 
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DalekFlay

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I3. UI and controls
As we know, good UI makes the game. For PC version, RDR2 UI and controls are horrible. From the get go you need to change the horse camera and controls. Still the horse handling will be terrible.The item and gun wheel that force you to use lots of keys and scrolling through items is good for consoles, but for PCs its horrible. Game takes your weapons into your horse, despite setting default equipment. It's annoying to take of the guns from horse -worse if you forgot them and mission already started. Re equipping hat-ugh, why not do this automatically when i get on a horse?

Every issue I had with the controls was about how they structured their UI and designed their inputs, none of it had anything to do with PC versus console IMO. I agree with everything else you said though, however I'm not sure how everything else you said amounts to an 8 out of 10 at all.
 

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