Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Wesp5]

Spoiler

Ok now i feel like a fucking retard, for whatever reason i forgot that you can swim in this game and i thought that water will instakill you XD. This stupidity aside after using valve i got stuck in the whirpool, i've reloaded few times and it always ended with me stuck levitating above that opened gate. In the end noclip fixed this, next certain vamp looks like he lost his texture (and no that isn't my fault since i did fresh reinstall, at least i hope so) and after the final fight asking Jack about Tzimisce ended the conversation and to progress normally you had to ignore that question.

About the whirlpool, I had the same problem and EntenSchreck needs to find a way to fix that. The white Malkavian is a character from the CQM and supposed to look like that. EntenSchreck and Burgermeister agreed to work together there. I could probably fix the last problem if you could post the exact sentence here which terminates the dialogue.

 

[Wesp5]

Just finished Prelude II and I like it so far even if it's a bit shorter than what I expected it to be.

Two major NPCs and all connected side quests had to be left out for now, because the dialogue isn't finished yet...

The only bugs I've encountered so far were that the game wouldn't let me turn in the Caitiff quest after I persuaded him to leave peacefully, which in turn caused him to spawn at the Empire Hotel and bug that quest out as well (the quest log didn't update after I dealt with everyone).

He should not appear at the Empire but we forgot indeed to implement the Persuasion option, I've just fixed that.

 

[Zariusz]

Spoiler

Ok now i feel like a fucking retard, for whatever reason i forgot that you can swim in this game and i thought that water will instakill you XD. This stupidity aside after using valve i got stuck in the whirpool, i've reloaded few times and it always ended with me stuck levitating above that opened gate. In the end noclip fixed this, next certain vamp looks like he lost his texture (and no that isn't my fault since i did fresh reinstall, at least i hope so) and after the final fight asking Jack about Tzimisce ended the conversation and to progress normally you had to ignore that question.

About the whirlpool, I had the same problem and EntenSchreck needs to find a way to fix that. The white Malkavian is a character from the CQM and supposed to look like that. EntenSchreck and Burgermeister agreed to work together there. I could probably fix the last problem if you could post the exact sentence here which terminates the dialogue.

Spoiler

Nr.1 leads you to "I see." answer and that one ends the conversation early. Also regarding the Malkavian are you sure about that? If you look at his chest you can see shirt but it looks like its using the same texture as his skin.

 

[Wesp5]

Nr. 1 indeed has the target line missing, I fixed that. As for the Malkavian, I don't remember how he looked in the CQM exactly, but normally a missing texture in Bloodlines is marked by a weird pink-black texture, not white.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Imagine how you’ll feel if the game actually turns out to be pretty good.

I think not even Caine himself can fix it.

Caine couldn't fix shit. That's why he's reduced to driving taxis for an unliving.

 

[Storyfag]

Imagine how you’ll feel if the game actually turns out to be pretty good.

I think not even Caine himself can fix it.

Caine couldn't fix shit. That's why he's reduced to driving taxis for an unliving.

"bUT YOu mAdE ThAT miStAKe BeFOre."
"... yes."

 

[NecroLord]

Imagine how you’ll feel if the game actually turns out to be pretty good.

I think not even Caine himself can fix it.

Caine couldn't fix shit. That's why he's reduced to driving taxis for an unliving.

I always thought it was the perfect way to depict Caine.
The very first vampire trying to exist in secrecy and anonymity, disconnected from everyone else, perhaps feeling a measure of guilt over his actions.
The vicious power games that the Kindred play? They are the immature childer of Caine who have strayed from the "Dark Father" and have been cursed by him.

 

[Caim]

Imagine how you’ll feel if the game actually turns out to be pretty good.

I think not even Caine himself can fix it.

Caine couldn't fix shit. That's why he's reduced to driving taxis for an unliving.

I always thought it was the perfect way to depict Caine.
The very first vampire trying to exist in secrecy and anonymity, disconnected from everyone else, perhaps feeling a measure of guilt over his actions.
The vicious power games that the Kindred play? They are the immature childer of Caine who have strayed from the "Dark Father" and have been cursed by him.

The joke is that Caine could easily stop all of it. All he would need to do is to admit he was wrong murdering his brother and spurning God, saying sorry and ask for forgiveness. But instead he's a stubborn bastard, flips God the bird on both barrels, and now he has to watch from the shadows while his children engage in bloody turf wars like animals for all of history.

 

[NecroLord]

Imagine how you’ll feel if the game actually turns out to be pretty good.

I think not even Caine himself can fix it.

Caine couldn't fix shit. That's why he's reduced to driving taxis for an unliving.

I always thought it was the perfect way to depict Caine.
The very first vampire trying to exist in secrecy and anonymity, disconnected from everyone else, perhaps feeling a measure of guilt over his actions.
The vicious power games that the Kindred play? They are the immature childer of Caine who have strayed from the "Dark Father" and have been cursed by him.

The joke is that Caine could easily stop all of it. All he would need to do is to admit he was wrong mudering his brother and spurning God, saying sorry and ask for forgiveness. But instead he's a stubborn bastard, flips God the bird on both barrels, and now he has to watch from the shadows while his children engage in bloody turf wars like animals for all of history.

Also an example of Pride as a mortal and the deadliest of all sins.
But I do not think that it would be that simple as Caine asking God for forgiveness...
There has to be some sort of penance.
Also, if the Sabbat are to be believed, then the Antediluvians FEAR Caine.
That should give any Kindred a slight idea of the sheer power the "Dark Father" commands...

 

[Storyfag]

Caine could easily stop all of it. All he would need to do is to admit he was wrong mudering his brother and spurning God, saying sorry and ask for forgiveness.

God has turned away from the World of Darkness. At most two Angels that did not Fall remain behind. They might not have the power to forgive Caine and his brood.

 

[Caim]

Caine could easily stop all of it. All he would need to do is to admit he was wrong mudering his brother and spurning God, saying sorry and ask for forgiveness.

God has turned away from the World of Darkness. At most two Angels that did not Fall remain behind. They might not have the power to forgive Caine and his brood.

In the normal stories yes, but in the Gehenna scenarios God intercedes either directly or indirectly.

 

[ColaWerewolf]

What's the appeal of Caine being the cab driver? This is an honest question, because I personally dislike this and don't consider it canon simply because I find it dumb, but I'm willing to hear the arguments for why this is a good portrayal of Caine.

I somewhat get it. It feels like a subversion of expectations. A literal biblical character comparable to a god spends his days driving a cab--bet you didn't expect that! This isn't a new concept, the most iconic example is Morgan Freeman's portrayal of God as a simple janitor in the 2003 cult classic Bruce Almighty. More recently it's also present in the Marvel Cinematic Universe with godlike beings such as Thor being portrayed as somewhat of an ordinary drunk loser during his depressive moments.

So I get the general light-heartedness of it. But I don't think it fits with WoD. And not because I want Cains to be super serious and edgy, I just think a god-like being such as Caine being able to live an ordinary life in the World of Darkness is too convenient for Caine and frankly takes away from the personal horror element of playing vampire.

The personal horror element is balancing the monstrous nature with the human nature. The human nature can be sadistic and evil, but you're still human. The fear is that you slowly lose attachment toward human passions and pleasures and begin to lean into the beast-like Hunger instead.

But if Caine who is dozens of thousands of years old can just pop back in and perfectly adjust to regular LA cabbie lifestyle then meh, this Beast thing doesn't seem like such a big deal.

That's my argument but I'm willing to hear detractors out.

I suppose I do find it really humorous that being a driver in LA is a much worse self-inflicted curse than anything God could come up with.

 

[NecroLord]

What's the appeal of Caine being the cab driver? This is an honest question, because I personally dislike this and don't consider it canon simply because I find it dumb, but I'm willing to hear the arguments for why this is a good portrayal of Caine.

I somewhat get it. It feels like a subversion of expectations. A literal biblical character comparable to a god spends his days driving a cab--bet you didn't expect that! This isn't a new concept, the most iconic example is Morgan Freeman's portrayal of God as a simple janitor in the 2003 cult classic Bruce Almighty. More recently it's also present in the Marvel Cinematic Universe with godlike beings such as Thor being portrayed as somewhat of an ordinary drunk loser during his depressive moments.

So I get the general light-heartedness of it. But I don't think it fits with WoD. And not because I want Cains to be super serious and edgy, I just think a god-like being such as Caine being able to live an ordinary life in the World of Darkness is too convenient for Caine and frankly takes away from the personal horror element of playing vampire.

The personal horror element is balancing the monstrous nature with the human nature. The human nature can be sadistic and evil, but you're still human. The fear is that you slowly lose attachment toward human passions and pleasures and begin to lean into the beast-like Hunger instead.

But if Caine who is dozens of thousands of years old can just pop back in and perfectly adjust to regular LA cabbie lifestyle then meh, this Beast thing doesn't seem like such a big deal.

That's my argument but I'm willing to hear detractors out.

I suppose I do find it really humorous that being a driver in LA is a much worse self-inflicted curse than anything God could come up with.

Like I said, it is just Caine being tired and disconnected from everyone around him, be it Kindred or Kine...

 

[Skinwalker]

The joke is that Caine could easily stop all of it. All he would need to do is to admit he was wrong mudering his brother and spurning God, saying sorry and ask for forgiveness.

That is true of every damned soul in hell. The door out of hell is wide open - the damned keep it sealed shut from the inside.

 

[The President]

On my one and only trip to California, I had to drive when they closed parts of the 405 during Carmageddon. Choosing to be a cab driver there is insane to me.

I actually thought the Caine portrayal was pretty good. I always viewed it as Caine watching his children to see if they could be redeemed as somewhat living vicariously through them wondering if he could do the same. I do think it fits the setting somewhat. Caine and the Antediluvians don’t seem to be doing much during the last 500-1000 years. They’re just lurking and waiting in the background.

 

[Tyranicon]

What's the appeal of Caine being the cab driver?

It's the gods walking among us trope. It's not really a subversion of expectations in the modern form, it instead presents the player with an interesting mystery: what the fuck is Caine doing just chilling out and watching you on the sidelines?

You can answer this in any number of ways, he's fatigued from all the shit he had to go through, he's a 4D chess genius using the player as a pawn in his elaborate, millennia-spanning ploy.

Ultimately, that doesn't matter, because it's just a way for the devs to give him a cool cameo that can be easily reversed if they need to.

 

[Wesp5]

What's the appeal of Caine being the cab driver? This is an honest question, because I personally dislike this and don't consider it canon simply because I find it dumb, but I'm willing to hear the arguments for why this is a good portrayal of Caine.

My theory is this: Caine is not working as a cab driver just for fun, he is doing it in LA because the whole setting of Bloodlines is a huge test. Gehenna is about to happen and Caine wants to observe his children to know what to do with them. So he chose Jack and the sarcophagus to see how the different factions will behave, and he chose the player, to see how a single individual vampire will react to be tempted by power.

 

[Storyfag]

The personal horror element is balancing the monstrous nature with the human nature. The human nature can be sadistic and evil, but you're still human. The fear is that you slowly lose attachment toward human passions and pleasures and begin to lean into the beast-like Hunger instead.

But if Caine who is dozens of thousands of years old can just pop back in and perfectly adjust to regular LA cabbie lifestyle then meh, this Beast thing doesn't seem like such a big deal.

Do you think he really perfectly adjusted to a regular LA cabbie lifestyle? Are you certain he is happy? Again he sees his Childer tearing themselves apart, like they did after the Deluge.* Again he leaves them to their own devices, this time not smiting them with additional curses. He most certainly is not content, save perhaps with very specific individual. But not with Cainites as a whole. His is a lonely existence of one who would build societies, but is doomed to witness their self-destruction in the First City, then in the Second City, and now in Los Angeles. Again, and again, and again.




* By the way, him going AWOL before the Deluge and the Third Generation murdering the Second Generation after the Deluge most certainly spared him being betrayed by the Second Generation first. Lucky bastard.

 

[Storyfag]

My theory is this: Caine is not working as a cab driver just for fun, he is doing it in LA because the whole setting of Bloodlines is a huge test.

The Malkavian dialogue with Caine the Cab Driver basically confirms it.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I think that it being ambiguous whether he's Caine or not works for the best. Adds to the broader foreboding vibe of whether the end is nigh or not.

 

[whydoibother]

What's the appeal of Caine being the cab driver? This is an honest question, because I personally dislike this and don't consider it canon simply because I find it dumb, but I'm willing to hear the arguments for why this is a good portrayal of Caine.

My theory is this: Caine is not working as a cab driver just for fun, he is doing it in LA because the whole setting of Bloodlines is a huge test. Gehenna is about to happen and Caine wants to observe his children to know what to do with them. So he chose Jack and the sarcophagus to see how the different factions will behave, and he chose the player, to see how a single individual vampire will react to be tempted by power.

My theory is: Caine went to LA to become a movie star, but he hasn't been getting picked for the castings, and he is running out of money for rent. So he started doing a job driving taxis at night, until he gets his big role and breaksthrough to stardom.

 

[whydoibother]

My theory is this: Caine is not working as a cab driver just for fun, he is doing it in LA because the whole setting of Bloodlines is a huge test.

The Malkavian dialogue with Caine the Cab Driver basically confirms it.

The dialogue doesn't confirm it, because he driver might just be fucking with you. But the game filenames do confirm it.

 

[Storyfag]

What's the appeal of Caine being the cab driver? This is an honest question, because I personally dislike this and don't consider it canon simply because I find it dumb, but I'm willing to hear the arguments for why this is a good portrayal of Caine.

My theory is this: Caine is not working as a cab driver just for fun, he is doing it in LA because the whole setting of Bloodlines is a huge test. Gehenna is about to happen and Caine wants to observe his children to know what to do with them. So he chose Jack and the sarcophagus to see how the different factions will behave, and he chose the player, to see how a single individual vampire will react to be tempted by power.

My theory is: Caine went to LA to become a movie star, but he hasn't been getting picked for the castings

Holy crap, Isaac is SO screwed.

 

[Storyfag]

My theory is this: Caine is not working as a cab driver just for fun, he is doing it in LA because the whole setting of Bloodlines is a huge test.

The Malkavian dialogue with Caine the Cab Driver basically confirms it.

The dialogue doesn't confirm it, because he driver might just be fucking with you. But the game filenames do confirm it.

No, the filenames confirm his identity. The Malk dialogue confirms his purpose in LA.

 

[Storyfag]

I think that it being ambiguous whether he's Caine or not works for the best. Adds to the broader foreboding vibe of whether the end is nigh or not.

It works for the best within the broader WoD framework. Having him present in the game works best within the confines of the game itself.

Again I must reiterate: Bloodlines is WoD in a can. The setting's basic essentials condensed into one package, and presented to the player almost without flaw. Caine being in it is just necessary.