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Community RPG Codex 2022 GOTY - VOTE NOW!

Tacgnol

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Tacgnol I'd rather pay Pierre €40 than pay €80 (that's the price over here) for newest AAA open world action RPG #752.

For all the codexers complaining about decline, and no cool games coming, there are a lot of codexers that ignore good games. This isn't just related to Knights of the Chalice II.

I like KOTC 2 as well. I backed it on KS for much more than it's being sold now.

But Pierre's pricing was never realistic, especially with a large part of his pitch being community-created content (and his very fair royalty split idea for premium modules).

If you want to get people learning and using the (great) toolset, you have to get bums on seats.
 

Abu Antar

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Tacgnol I'd rather pay Pierre €40 than pay €80 (that's the price over here) for newest AAA open world action RPG #752.

For all the codexers complaining about decline, and no cool games coming, there are a lot of codexers that ignore good games. This isn't just related to Knights of the Chalice II.

I like KOTC 2 as well. I backed it on KS for much more than it's being sold now.

But Pierre's pricing was never realistic, especially with a large part of his pitch being community-created content (and his very fair royalty split idea for premium modules).

If you want to get people learning and using the (great) toolset, you have to get bums on seats.
On that, I can agree. But where is the sweet spot for pricing? €10? €20?
 

Tacgnol

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Tacgnol I'd rather pay Pierre €40 than pay €80 (that's the price over here) for newest AAA open world action RPG #752.

For all the codexers complaining about decline, and no cool games coming, there are a lot of codexers that ignore good games. This isn't just related to Knights of the Chalice II.

I like KOTC 2 as well. I backed it on KS for much more than it's being sold now.

But Pierre's pricing was never realistic, especially with a large part of his pitch being community-created content (and his very fair royalty split idea for premium modules).

If you want to get people learning and using the (great) toolset, you have to get bums on seats.
On that, I can agree. But where is the sweet spot for pricing? €10? €20?

I think 20 would have been fair and probably more palatable to many personally.
 

thesheeep

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Tacgnol I'd rather pay Pierre €40 than pay €80 (that's the price over here) for newest AAA open world action RPG #752.

For all the codexers complaining about decline, and no cool games coming, there are a lot of codexers that ignore good games. This isn't just related to Knights of the Chalice II.

I like KOTC 2 as well. I backed it on KS for much more than it's being sold now.

But Pierre's pricing was never realistic, especially with a large part of his pitch being community-created content (and his very fair royalty split idea for premium modules).

If you want to get people learning and using the (great) toolset, you have to get bums on seats.
I cannot speak for everyone, but what pushed me away was everything I read about the campaign the game ships with.
Everything about it sounded like attempting to drill a hole through my leg with a manual drill.

I have no interest in campaigns that force me to play every encounter 20 times just so I know exactly what's coming up and can prepare cheese it before it even begins.
And then combine that "fun" approach with RNG-induced reloading.

The only thing making me consider to get the game at all is Hearkenworld.

But I agree, shame about that apparently really good toolset.
 

felipepepe

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Tacgnol I'd rather pay Pierre €40 than pay €80 (that's the price over here) for newest AAA open world action RPG #752.

For all the codexers complaining about decline, and no cool games coming, there are a lot of codexers that ignore good games. This isn't just related to Knights of the Chalice II.

I like KOTC 2 as well. I backed it on KS for much more than it's being sold now.

But Pierre's pricing was never realistic, especially with a large part of his pitch being community-created content (and his very fair royalty split idea for premium modules).

If you want to get people learning and using the (great) toolset, you have to get bums on seats.
On that, I can agree. But where is the sweet spot for pricing? €10? €20?

I think 20 would have been fair and probably more palatable to many personally.
Yeah, totally agree on the price thing... the game is almost one year old now, didn't reach that magical 100 reviews threshold, got only 7 reviews in the past 6 months... and yet still at full price, never went lower than a 10% discount.

Pierre really should look at what successful niche indies do, like Spiderweb.

I cannot speak for everyone, but what pushed me away was everything I read about the campaign the game ships with.
Everything about it sounded like attempting to drill a hole through my leg with a manual drill.

I get that, and I think on this Pierre noticed the mistake. The KS backer version just had the challenging mega-dungeon, but the Steam version added a tutorial module and an intro village to the mega-dungeon module, IMHO both are great and far superior in balance, C&C and pacing than the mega-dungeon.

If I were Pierre, I would make the new Dark Arena module like that intro village / like KotC1 was, and would release a "Knights of the Chalice 2: Enhanced Edition" that has all modules, begins with the more accessible Dark Arena and costs $20. Make it a soft relaunch, since the first one flopped.

But since he hates money, it will probably be mandatory to play the original module to get to Dark Arena, and it will costs $20 extra just for the module, making the full package more expensive than Pathfinder lol
 

mediocrepoet

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But since he hates money, it will probably be mandatory to play the original module to get to Dark Arena, and it will costs $20 extra just for the module, making the full package more expensive than Pathfinder lol
This is just an elite economist move that you don't understand. Maybe some day.

I still get a chuckle when he didn't want to go on Steam at all because they'd steal money from him (take a cut) and didn't want to deal with GOG because they wouldn't take his RTS thing no one was interested in.
 

Mortmal

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Tacgnol I'd rather pay Pierre €40 than pay €80 (that's the price over here) for newest AAA open world action RPG #752.

For all the codexers complaining about decline, and no cool games coming, there are a lot of codexers that ignore good games. This isn't just related to Knights of the Chalice II.

I like KOTC 2 as well. I backed it on KS for much more than it's being sold now.

But Pierre's pricing was never realistic, especially with a large part of his pitch being community-created content (and his very fair royalty split idea for premium modules).

If you want to get people learning and using the (great) toolset, you have to get bums on seats.
Doing a complete module for it is like making a pen and paper module , draw every maps , and having to script it all, far too much free work for anyone even if it was popular.
 

Butter

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Doing a complete module for it is like making a pen and paper module , draw every maps , and having to script it all, far too much free work for anyone even if it was popular.
Just need to harness the autism of Bethesda modders who spend thousands of unpaid hours porting TES3 to TES5 just in time for TES6 to release.
 

Tacgnol

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Doing a complete module for it is like making a pen and paper module , draw every maps , and having to script it all, far too much free work for anyone even if it was popular.

That's why Pierre was pushing royalty sharing, which was actually pretty well thought out.

I.e. make a good module and you could sell it and split the profits with him.

However, it still requires there to be enough people actually playing the game and learning the toolset.
 

mediocrepoet

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Doing a complete module for it is like making a pen and paper module , draw every maps , and having to script it all, far too much free work for anyone even if it was popular.

That's why Pierre was pushing royalty sharing, which was actually pretty well thought out.

I.e. make a good module and you could sell it and split the profits with him.

However, it still requires there to be enough people actually playing the game and learning the toolset.
This is exactly it. You need to have a critical mass both for the audience, but also to reach the tiny proportion of users who are going to go hard and be interested in building stuff.

I'm thinking the release of Solasta and its 5E toolset didn't help at all either.
 

Grauken

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I don't want to make any advertisement but a game with words Knights and Chalice in the title wasn't bad at all.

I can't in full honesty bring myself to call Augury of Chaos a good game. I rated it 3.

Darth's review is the reason I never got KotC2, sounded like all the worst aspects of KotC1 magnified.
 

Theodora

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I still get a chuckle when he didn't want to go on Steam at all because they'd steal money from him (take a cut) and didn't want to deal with GOG because they wouldn't take his RTS thing no one was interested in.
He's a bit of a Known Personality then?

Refusing to work with Steam because they take their cut seems odd, unless making money is a distant secondary goal. (Not saying their 30% or whatever is "fair" but avoiding Steam for ideological reasons seems like a way to leave a lot of money on the table.)
 

mediocrepoet

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I still get a chuckle when he didn't want to go on Steam at all because they'd steal money from him (take a cut) and didn't want to deal with GOG because they wouldn't take his RTS thing no one was interested in.
He's a bit of a Known Personality then?

Refusing to work with Steam because they take their cut seems odd, unless making money is a distant secondary goal. (Not saying their 30% or whatever is "fair" but avoiding Steam for ideological reasons seems like a way to leave a lot of money on the table.)
Yeah, Pierre's an odd duck. You should play KotC1 if you haven't already. And there's probably the story about how he hates money in that thread if you're inclined to look it up.
 

Konjad

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Never trust a dev who dislikes Steam.

Which is why I also never bought any 1-year Epic Games exclusive unless it ended up in $1 bundle.
 

Tacgnol

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I don't want to make any advertisement but a game with words Knights and Chalice in the title wasn't bad at all.

I can't in full honesty bring myself to call Augury of Chaos a good game. I rated it 3.

Darth's review is the reason I never got KotC2, sounded like all the worst aspects of KotC1 magnified.

I'd wait and see what the next module is like if Augury isn't your thing (though I would argue it is better than it was at release). Pierre claims it will be more like the KOTC 1 experience.

Hearkenwold offers a good experience in the interim.

The actual underlying systems are decent, and many of the classes that were useless at release have since been rebalanced somewhat. Barbarians for instance were near useless at release, but are now one of the best martials.
 

Tacgnol

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I still get a chuckle when he didn't want to go on Steam at all because they'd steal money from him (take a cut) and didn't want to deal with GOG because they wouldn't take his RTS thing no one was interested in.
He's a bit of a Known Personality then?

Refusing to work with Steam because they take their cut seems odd, unless making money is a distant secondary goal. (Not saying their 30% or whatever is "fair" but avoiding Steam for ideological reasons seems like a way to leave a lot of money on the table.)
Yeah, Pierre's an odd duck. You should play KotC1 if you haven't already. And there's probably the story about how he hates money in that thread if you're inclined to look it up.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/fun-with-pierre-begue-creator-of-knights-of-the-chalice.122956/
 

Roguey

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He's a bit of a Known Personality then?

Refusing to work with Steam because they take their cut seems odd, unless making money is a distant secondary goal. (Not saying their 30% or whatever is "fair" but avoiding Steam for ideological reasons seems like a way to leave a lot of money on the table.)
Pierre's one of those autistic libertarians whose idea of how things should work is completely at odds with how they do https://www.heroicfantasygames.com/Liberty/Liberty_Introduction.htm
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I can't in full honesty bring myself to call Augury of Chaos a good game. I rated it 3.
The fact that you can play a dogshit game like Elex and shill it like the developers are holding your wife and kids hostage, but complain about a fantastic game like KotC II...I read your review, and while I found myself agreeing with almost every criticism you made with the exception of the issues that have been patched out/fixed, it blows my mind that you had such a bad time with it. Even with all of its flaws, the combat system is so damn good that the game manages to be great despite them.
 

Grauken

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I can't in full honesty bring myself to call Augury of Chaos a good game. I rated it 3.
The fact that you can play a dogshit game like Elex and shill it like the developers are holding your wife and kids hostage, but complain about a fantastic game like KotC II...I read your review, and while I found myself agreeing with almost every criticism you made with the exception of the issues that have been patched out/fixed, it blows my mind that you had such a bad time with it. Even with all of its flaws, the combat system is so damn good that the game manages to be great despite them.

Darth shit all over Elex 2 despite liking the first part, shows he has integrity, whether you like his tastes or not, his criticisms are usually well reasoned
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I can't in full honesty bring myself to call Augury of Chaos a good game. I rated it 3.
The fact that you can play a dogshit game like Elex and shill it like the developers are holding your wife and kids hostage, but complain about a fantastic game like KotC II...I read your review, and while I found myself agreeing with almost every criticism you made with the exception of the issues that have been patched out/fixed, it blows my mind that you had such a bad time with it. Even with all of its flaws, the combat system is so damn good that the game manages to be great despite them.

Darth shit all over Elex 2 despite liking the first part, shows he has integrity, whether you like his tastes or not, his criticisms are usually well reasoned
Oh I agree. He's a great reviewer and like I said, I agreed with everyone of his criticisms. It is his taste that I am insulting/questioning. Shouldn't be surprised to be honest since he doesn't like Underrail either.
 

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