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Editorial RPG Codex Report: PAX East 2015, or How Chris Avellone Called the Codex Unprofessional

Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
6,319
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Tim Cain has returned to the Codex ...
The prophecies are true!

Indeed. It was prophesied Muad'Dib "Tim Cain" would return to the Codex and lead the Codexian Jihad to drive the Unthinking Developers of the Decline to the furthest pockets of the Known Internet before eliminating them entirely. Codex "Fremen" will be installed on every RPG forum to read the gospel of a turn-based Pathfinder CPRG to the unenlightened ones who did not know the First Law: thou shalt not make a cRPG in the likeness of shit.

Starting with the Watch...:fight:
 
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mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
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Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
At our best, we criticize things for being badly-written, underdesigned, lazy, corporatized, none of which is helpful as anything other than a valve for our disappointment. Most of the time, we don't even get that far.

I've already stated that I can completely understand them not posting here, but I have to disagree with your definition of the Codex "at our best". I'd say at our best there are interesting debates on game design, members with knowledge of just about any old RPG I can think of (and I discovered many hidden gems thanks to this place) and useful contributions to the community like mindx2's report which kicked off this thread.

There's lots of shit on the forum but ignoring what good parts there are just comes across as overly edgy.

I was going to post something very similar to this.

Even the Obsidian guys recognized and admitted to me that the Codex is one of the few places where design/mechanics/story/etc. are debated with real insight and solid suggestions given. I am by no means as knowledgeable as many posters here. However, I have learned to listen and respect (even when I disagree) the opinions of such forum posters as Vault Dweller, felipepepe, Grunker, Infinitron, Luzur, Sensuki, Sceptic, tuluse, Darth Roxor and many more than I can count or remember off the top of my head. Do we have our fair share of trolls, of course.... just look at what our mascot is. Do they spew a bunch of vitriol? Yes, but... and this is a big BUT, they can be and are easily ignored and so much useful information can still be seen and obtained regardless. One great thing is that those opinions, suggestions and statements are challenged and posters have to actually debate and support their assertions. We joke about there being a "Hivemind" mentality here but that's a little misleading. What most here do share as far as opinions are concerned is that if you like or dislike something you need to back it up with a solid argument. So what if a few uptight people can't handle a little criticism! If your opinion, statement, criticism is that fragile you deserve to be called out for it. How the heck else are people supposed to grow and learn!!!

I for one am glad that this place exists. We can have these discussion and even sling some mud at each other but most of the time it is in a good-natured or self deprecating way. Where else can I brofist a person's post who jokingly makes reference to my disability? or Jaesun and his man-love or JarlFrank and his Fourth Riech or Infinitron and his Jewish heritage or Crooked Bee and her feminine side?... and on and on and on... I see the Codex as being one of the most open and diverse places on the Interwebz where there is vast computer game knowledge with people who still have a sense of humor.

Sorry for the rant but I do appreciate this place and "most" of those I've had the chance to interact with. I hope the Codex never changes because it might upset someone or their fragile feelings, be they a moderator, developer, contributer or regular forum user!!

:love:
 
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hiver

Guest
One great thing is that those opinions, suggestions and statements are challenged and posters have to actually debate and support their assertions.
You must be fucking joking.

But i guess its nicer to live in a lala land in your heads.

vault dweller you say? infinitron? :LOL:
 

mindx2

Codex Roaming East Coast Reporter
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Perusing his PC Museum shelves.
Codex 2012 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire RPG Wokedex Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
One great thing is that those opinions, suggestions and statements are challenged and posters have to actually debate and support their assertions.
You must be fucking joking.

But i guess its nicer to live in a lala land in your heads.

vault dweller you say? infinitron? :LOL:

I almost put you in my post also hiver... though you may rant and rave I enjoy reading your posts and do think you have some... interesting opinion on games...:hug:
 

hiver

Guest
Its better that you didnt.
I would consider it an insult to be in that company.

Anyway, im replaying the Troika PA video for the amazing music and awaiting sir Tims answer or two. It just gets my mind going places. Much better then discussing how great and fair codex is.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Its better that you didnt.
I would consider it an insult to be in that company.

hiver_zpsalarzd31.jpg
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
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Joined
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Messages
1,865,419
No. People could tell him that they think it is a shitty game, that it was dumbed down in their opinion etc.

If you asked me if I would prefer a more polite environment? Sure. But you know that this edgy atmosphere, filthy language, tags and stuff, are just for show. Every now and then some asshole will use thus as an excuse to vent reactionary prejudices or ad hominem attacks, but they are the exception, right? The truth is that in an environment in which almost everyone uses dirty language, the “dirty” language is not dirty. I prefer a “dirty” place with substance like the Codex over sites such as RPG Watch anytime.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
The Real Fanboy
Joined
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Messages
1,865,419
At our best, we criticize things for being badly-written, underdesigned, lazy, corporatized, none of which is helpful as anything other than a valve for our disappointment. Most of the time, we don't even get that far.

I've already stated that I can completely understand them not posting here, but I have to disagree with your definition of the Codex "at our best". I'd say at our best there are interesting debates on game design, members with knowledge of just about any old RPG I can think of (and I discovered many hidden gems thanks to this place) and useful contributions to the community like mindx2's report which kicked off this thread.

There's lots of shit on the forum but ignoring what good parts there are just comes across as overly edgy.

I was going to post something very similar to this.

Even the Obsidian guys recognized and admitted to me that the Codex is one of the few places where design/mechanics/story/etc. are debated with real insight and solid suggestions given. I am by no means as knowledgeable as many posters here. However, I have learned to listen and respect (even when I disagree) the opinions of such forum posters as Vault Dweller, felipepepe, Grunker, Infinitron, Luzur, Sensuki, Sceptic, tuluse, Darth Roxor and many more than I can count or remember off the top of my head. Do we have our fair share of trolls, of course.... just look at what our mascot is. Do they spew a bunch of vitriol? Yes, but... and this is a big BUT, they can be and are easily ignored and so much useful information can still be seen and obtained regardless. One great thing is that those opinions, suggestions and statements are challenged and posters have to actually debate and support their assertions. We joke about there being a "Hivemind" mentality here but that's a little misleading. What most here do share as far as opinions are concerned is that if you like or dislike something you need to back it up with a solid argument. So what if a few uptight people can't handle a little criticism! If your opinion, statement, criticism is that fragile you deserve to be called out for it. How the heck else are people supposed to grow and learn!!!

I for one am glad that this place exists. We can have these discussion and even sling some mud at each other but most of the time it is in a good-natured or self deprecating way. Where else can I brofist a person's post who jokingly makes reference to my disability? or Jaesun and his man-love or JarlFrank and his Fourth Riech or Infinitron and his Jewish heritage or Crooked Bee and her feminine side?... and on and on and on... I see the Codex as being one of the most open and diverse places on the Interwebz where there is vast computer game knowledge with people who still have a sense of humor.

Sorry for the rant but I do appreciate this place and "most" of those I've had the chance to interact with. I hope the Codex never changes because it might upset someone or their fragile feelings, be they a moderator, developer, contributer or regular forum user!!

:brodex:
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
No. People could tell him that they think it is a shitty game, that it was dumbed down in their opinion etc.

If you asked me if I would prefer a more polite environment? Sure. But you know that this edgy atmosphere, filthy language, tags and stuff, are just for show. Every now and then some asshole will use thus as an excuse to vent reactionary prejudices or ad hominem attacks, but they are the exception, right? The truth is that in an environment in which almost everyone uses dirty language, the “dirty” language is not dirty. I prefer a “dirty” place with substance like the Codex over sites such as RPG Watch anytime.
Oh I know that we shouldn't take these people seriously, but the edgy atmosphere, filthy language etc is what outsiders see. That's why developers don't dare to write here. Even if they realise that the Codex really has substance, they just don't have the time, mood to filter through all the shit to get to the good part.
 
Self-Ejected

Lurker King

Self-Ejected
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Messages
1,865,419
Oh I know that we shouldn't take these people seriously, but the edgy atmosphere, filthy language etc is what outsiders see. That's why developers don't dare to write here. Even if they realise that the Codex really has substance, they just don't have the time, mood to filter through all the shit to get to the good part.

You are being naïve, Matt. Most developers post very little on the web because they don’t have time or don’t want to expose themselves too much. That is the reason why developers have community managers to deal with their fans in their own forums. And that is the reason why Sawyer is so criticized here: he is very open about his design philosophy, he expose himself too much. How many times did Chris Avellone post at the Obsidian forum since 2003? Let me see… 156. That is very little. Do you think that he would be posting here often if the Codex were more polite? I don’t think so.

Besides, I have the impression that many developers using Kickstarter still have a corporate development style. They say they take the players seriously when they need to get funded, but ignore most criticism – vide W2. The fact is that knowledgeable codexers will always end up participating in other forums, early access, etc., to provide crystalline and civilized feedback to developers. Right, Sensuki? So, at the end of the day, the tone of the Codex doesn’t make any difference.
 

jagged-jimmy

Prophet
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
1,562
Location
Freeside
Codex 2012
So source code...

So we are not allowed to compile the ToEE exe - so what fuck it. How about releasing the d20 rules library, so someone would come up with his own UI/Rendering app and call to the d20 lib for rules checks... This alone would be awesome.

I would love to take a look at d20 rule implementation.
But i guess it looks like crap, so Tim hides it. :troll:
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
16,268
Or, civilized men don't like to be called retarted, idiot, popamole or a piece of shit by an edgy 20 year old. Also, all the negativism can really ruin your hobby if you take it too seriously. And before you ask, sure, if they came here by their real name they would be taken seriously, but lets not kid ourself. If MCA comes here with a different name and say that he likes Fallout 3, he would be ridiculed out of the Codex.

that is why you have codex and not RPGwatch

Codex is like fight on battlefield.
No one gives a shit that your came to battle with hair stylist but people will give shit about weapon you brought.
So if your weapon is weak you will be showered in mud and piss so that your hair stylist won't be able to help.

This weeds out ton of potential idiots from this board.

So if MCA will have new account called ACM and he will say "Fallout 3 has awesome story!" he would be nailed to cross like he should.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,737
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Very good read.

However, I have to wonder why developers get so worried about posting on the Codex. Are egos truly that fragile? Or have we all just become immune to smack talk here?

Because codex is a place where people ask questions, digest systems and call on shit design.
Why would you spend your precious time on codex where you can be on reddit and only listen to praise ?

Mirror mirror tell me..
Or, civilized men don't like to be called retarted, idiot, popamole or a piece of shit by an edgy 20 year old. Also, all the negativism can really ruin your hobby if you take it too seriously. And before you ask, sure, if they came here by their real name they would be taken seriously, but lets not kid ourself. If MCA comes here with a different name and say that he likes Fallout 3, he would be ridiculed out of the Codex.

There's a difference between being -worried- about doing something and not -wanting- to do something. The internet is full of people being flayed by communities not much crazier than this one for daring to be public figures and make themselves known. Do you really think they find it uplifting or useful to read the uninformed rage of a bunch of grognards who post blind negativity about games they proudly screech about refusing to play (and then just as proudly inform us all they've pirated)? How does that improve a day? What this forum would claim is "dialogue" is just a bunch of people recycling opinions over and over with no justification other than their own personal preferences. As J_C says, this community by and large has nothing to offer them. At our best, we criticize things for being badly-written, underdesigned, lazy, corporatized, none of which is helpful as anything other than a valve for our disappointment. Most of the time, we don't even get that far.

After what happened to Sarkisian, I don't know why anyone would ever want to appear anywhere online wearing anything but a mask ever again.

You "I FUCKING HATE THIS SHITHOLE THAT I'VE FREQUENTED FOR YEARS" types are really weird. Surely there's a reason you're here and not a "healthier" community?
 

Rostere

Arcane
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Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Messages
2,504
Location
Stockholm
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 RPG Wokedex Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
BROtherhood!

We are whole again!

The sickness has been cut out.

In the name of Cain! In the name of Cain, Cain LIVES!

You can't kill the Messiah!



Cain! Cain! Cain! Cain!
 

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