Editorial RPG Codex Retrospective: Roguey fights for social justice in Josh Sawyer's Icewind Dale II

[Zeriel]

"Unfortunately, this describes my experiences so well, but I never know how to express these thoughts."

OH BOY.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

have you seen those tards on tumblr?

No. But now, thanks to you, I have.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

REMOVE GD DERAIL FROM PREMISES

 

[Tigranes]

Boring. Ignoring the rape stuff and the roguey/sawyer joke, this is a review that has no identity, purpose or utility.

The general commentary is IGN quality summary with nothing revealing. Game mechanics part has buckets of description as if a wiki page, then some nitpicks about a few exploits that isn't a big deal to anyone. Points like iwd2 needing a lot more planning for a party - who the fuck on the codex after 10 years needs to waste time reading that?

The combat "analysis" is basically a 15 year old's "here's what I saw lol" show and tell. Paragraph upon paragraph of I fought this and then this amd this one was cool etc. It would be a good read... if it was a hands-on preview. Again, who's this for? Most of the codex already knows all this. Why write something with less new or interesting commentary than most iwd threads that exist?

The only bits that are useful as a retrospective is some details like the rushed story. I knew these already and so did half the codex, but for the other half at least, sure. These nuggets are nowhere wnpugh to make this worth a read.

Don't care about roguey on the front page, if it provides lulz or fresh commentary on iwd2 why not? But its not funny and it has no content. Boring.

 

[Tigranes]

Infinitron it is not a combatfag review. Its combat commentary is 90% boring description and offers no combatfaggery worrh reading. That's why it's a shit piece, not the bait.

 

[MasPingon]

It's basically a combatfag review. If there's anything I'd be concerned about if the Codex was a more "professional" publication and I was the editor, it would be that. The feminist trolling is just easily ignorable fluff. If you let it bother you, you're falling for an obvious trap.

This. Apparantly the Codex is easily baited.

The baiting is obvious. What it's doing in the news section in a "RPG Codex Retrospective Review" is less obvious which is what most are commenting on.

Some of the previous Codex spoof reviews have been hilarious, even the first Roguey review was mildly amusing. This is just fucking tedious now.

There are plenty of sites having boring discussions about feminism in games etc, plenty of trolling by Roguey on the forums here. Fine. But now we've got a pathetic discussion in the news section about alien "rape" and Sawyer's "obsession".

If this was the master plan then well done, but it hardly lives up the usual standards of Codex trolling (which is all we can judge it on as it's clearly not "news" and is pretty dismal as a straight review).

Verdict: Fail

LOL, you were baited too.

Dude, you can't be "baited" by something like this. It would be otherwise if it wasn't serious, but Roguey troping pretend to be a thesis. Saying "Lol, we were joking, shame on you" now is just stupid.

Read my sentence again. It's a combatfag review. It contains allusions to feminism, but it's not about feminism.

 

[Infinitron]

Boring. Ignoring the rape stuff and the roguey/sawyer joke, this is a review that has no identity, purpose or utility.

The general commentary is IGN quality summary with nothing revealing. Game mechanics part has buckets of description as if a wiki page, then some nitpicks about a few exploits that isn't a big deal to anyone. Points like iwd2 needing a lot more planning for a party - who the fuck on the codex after 10 years needs to waste time reading that?

The combat "analysis" is basically a 15 year old's "here's what I saw lol" show and tell. Paragraph upon paragraph of I fought this and then this amd this one was cool etc. It would be a good read... if it was a hands-on preview. Again, who's this for? Most of the codex already knows all this. Why write something with less new or interesting commentary than most iwd threads that exist?

The only bits that are useful as a retrospective is some details like the rushed story. I knew these already and so did half the codex, but for the other half at least, sure. These nuggets are nowhere wnpugh to make this worth a read.


Don't care about roguey on the front page, if it provides lulz or fresh commentary on iwd2 why not? But its not funny and it has no content. Boring.

Infinitron it is not a combatfag review. Its combat commentary is 90% boring description and offers no combatfaggery worrh reading. That's why it's a shit piece, not the bait.

Those are arguments I can accept. Roguey?

 

[Darth Roxor]

You mean the previous "review" was something different than what Tigranes said?

And you think you're gonna get an answer different from the last one, i.e. "i dun care lol!"?

 

[karfhud]

"Manic Pixie Dream Princess"

I mean, come on.

At least she's a Twin Peaks fan.

 

[Azrael the cat]

everyone knows her views

Well if Andyman can LARP as a horse....

 

[Roguey]

The general commentary is IGN quality summary with nothing revealing.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2002/09/05/icewind-dale-ii-review?page=1

Looks like a pretty solid review to me. More detailed than mine in some ways, less in others.

You want to see a shitty IWD2 review? http://www.caltrops.com/review0021.php

My review contains 400% less use of "faggot-as-a-pejorative" and doesn't spout completely inaccurate bullshit like "bards are irrelevant."

Game mechanics part has buckets of description as if a wiki page, then some nitpicks about a few exploits that isn't a big deal to anyone.

Yeah well I almost completely ignored this last time and people complained about how I didn't talk about it. Nitpicks? You think 3e's shitty attributes and feats and Black Isle's complete botching of Lingering Song are nitpicks? Those are fundamental flaws. "Cold of cone and potion spam in Dragon Age aren't a big deal to anyone," "Crafting grind in Skyrim isn't a big deal to anyone" etc.

Points like iwd2 needing a lot more planning for a party - who the fuck on the codex after 10 years needs to waste time reading that?

I didn't write this review for people who have been registered on the Codex for 10 years. It's for people who want to know the deal with this Josh Sawyer fellow and why I like him so much. Possibly someone who's never played IWD2 for whatever reason or someone who hasn't played it in over 10 years and has let it become a hazy memory.

The combat "analysis" is basically a 15 year old's "here's what I saw lol" show and tell. Paragraph upon paragraph of I fought this and then this amd this one was cool etc.

Looks like I've once again overestimated the reading comprehension abilities of certain members of the audience. I actually went into more detail with this one too.

Do I really have to explain why enemies who use Hold Person on you are difficult and fun to fight? You see it's because when it succeeds those party members are no longer contributing to the fight and can die very quickly thanks to autohits so your top priority is protect them at all costs so whatever battle plan you had before has to be changed. And troll shamans who cast protection from fire on themselves is the kind of behavior I don't remember seeing in any D&D game before or since and since trolls need to be killed by fire to die for good this means you have to change your usual routine of lazily using a fire weapon or one of those fire consumables or a fireball or whatever. Success/partial success/failure-but-not-game-over-failure states are all-too-rare when it comes to RPG objectives. An exploding boss that immediately starts a fight with another boss before you're allowed to save is also something that doesn't happen in every other RPG out there. And so on.

Again, who's this for? Most of the codex already knows all this.

Should we take a poll? There are 11,861 members and who knows how many lurkers at the moment. 66 members put Icewind Dale II in their top 25.

Why write something with less new or interesting commentary than most iwd threads that exist?

I don't believe any before has talked about how much rape is in IWD2. I admit I didn't go far enough; I could have mentioned how the story suggests that disenfranchised groups banding together and taking up violence against their oppressors is wrong and evil, something overprivileged whites and milquetoast "allies" go on about quite often.

 

[Roguey]

Roguey insists that Sawyer could refuse to work on Aliens RPG but didn't because Roguey is rape-obsessed. What the fuck does Roguey think a game development company is; a fucking charity where anyone can choose what to work on and not, on a personal whim? There is not an ounce of sense in suggesting "Sawyer could refuse to work on it". Might as well suggest that Sawyer should leave Obsidian than work on a popular license with a superficial connection to rape. Why? Because RPAE!

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. "Just following orders" doesn't work for war crimes.

Also it's not superficial.

O'Bannon himself later described the sexual imagery in Alien as overt and intentional: "One thing that people are all disturbed about is sex... I said 'That's how I'm going to attack the audience; I'm going to attack them sexually. And I'm not going to go after the women in the audience, I'm going to attack the men. I am going to put in every image I can think of to make the men in the audience cross their legs. Homosexual oral rape, birth. The thing lays its eggs down your throat, the whole number.'"

"This is a movie about alien interspecies rape," O'Bannon said on the documentary Alien Evolution, "That's scary because it hits all of our buttons."[4] O'Bannon felt that the symbolism of "homosexual oral rape" was an effective means of discomforting male viewers.

 

[MasPingon]

Roguey insists that Sawyer could refuse to work on Aliens RPG but didn't because Roguey is rape-obsessed. What the fuck does Roguey think a game development company is; a fucking charity where anyone can choose what to work on and not, on a personal whim? There is not an ounce of sense in suggesting "Sawyer could refuse to work on it". Might as well suggest that Sawyer should leave Obsidian than work on a popular license with a superficial connection to rape. Why? Because RPAE!

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. "Just following orders" doesn't work for war crimes.

Can you tell us what exactly is so wrong in touching a subject of rape? Is it that only a feminist got a right to speak about it?

 

[villain of the story]

As I said: you are insane.

Anyway, who am I to judge? You obviously love rape yourself otherwise why hang out at the Codex at all? Carry on, good sir and have a nice rapey day.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

It's like I'm really on 4chan.

 

[Tigranes]

Most of your combat 'analysis' is "First you fight this monster and this monster and this monster with this weapon, then you go to another room and fight this monster and that monster." E.g. the final battle, which you would think is pretty significant:

Unless you want to kill 10 innocent slaves, you'll end up having to take on a bunch of demons and a lesser deity who has 500 HP, fire immunity, and damage resistance to anything that isn't a +3-or-higher crushing weapon. The penultimate fight involves three blindness-casting half-dragons, two wizards, a cleric, another slayer knight, and a half-orc in a small area. The final battle has you facing a pre-buffed Isair and Madae (a sorcerer and a cleric, respectively) and a chaotic mess of summoned creatures (until you kill the summoner). Madae will cast Blasphemy at the start of both phases of the battle, so pre-buffing is a must if your party is mostly non-evil. They make for a more interesting final boss fight than Belhifet or Icasaracht, though they're not too difficult if you've mastered the system.

Pure description, nothing of interest. Just about the only detail is 'Madae will cast Blasphemy'. In many cases you say fights here are 'fun' or 'interesting' then proceed to just say 'there is this monster and this monster'.

Let's be fair, there are bits that have a bit more 'commentary':

We're still not done with lizard-people; now it's on to Dragon's Eye, and it's a disappointing trash mob-filled area compared to what it was in Icewind Dale. Its semi-interesting ideas include enemies with fear-inducing crossbow bolts, yuan-ti halfblood casters who teleport in mid-battle (an aspect Bioware would come to love and eventually copy ad nauseam), and a mustard jelly and olive slime ambush that requires fire to handle. After three floors of boredom you finally get something fun when you have to kill a large group of efreet with red fire shields that make them cold-resistant and deal fire damage to anyone who attacks them in melee (unless they have a lot of fire resistance themselves). This is immediately followed by a battle with a cleric who constantly heals and summons dozens of snakes. Your reward for completing this is the Vipergout spell, which lets your mage vomit snakes him/herself, and the opportunity to go back to Kuldahar and take care of a nasty high-level undead adventuring party for an awesome paladin-only sword. They can do a lot of damage in a short amount of time, particularly since the mage begins the fight by casting Executioner's Eyes, a spell that gives them a +4 bonus to their attack and critical hit rolls.

However, what is actually worth the bother here? Did I really need to read what 'red fire shields' do, or the Manual's explanation to Executioner's Eyes?

I don't believe any before has talked about how much rape is in IWD2.

You're right, and since the thread shows this was the only thing the Codex found worth talking about in this thread, I suppose it's time to ignore it and do other things with my time.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

Who are we to blame someone for being fascinated by the subject? We should celebrate rape collectively instead of quarrelling over trivialities. Rape for everyone.

 

[Average Manatee]

You want to see a shitty IWD2 review? http://www.caltrops.com/review0021.php

Funny, because that's a much better review. Even if I disagree with it substantially, it's an actual review.

 

[Smejki]

"To zas bude v álejích nablito..."

 

[laclongquan]

I half believe Rogue just play being female to troll Codex.

But this latest piece of rape obsession mesh so well with all other posts, that I really think Roguey is female. Rape obsession is a girl thing. Even a man trying to pretend wont have the instinct to go that far.

 

[Exar Kun]

"I already played this game 34 times, I already know all this stuff dummy!11" and "LOL ROGUEY IS A FEMINIST SHES A GIRL LOLOL RAEP HURDUR" are not legitimate criticisms of a video game review.

 

[Wyrmlord]

One of the best moments in Icewind Dale 2 was meeting the ghost of the foster mother of the two villains.

It gave a grand sensation of taking a walk through the memories involving the past of the villains, so it hypes you up for the final confrontation with them. So on one hand, you are marching towards the enemy, but also you are learning what lies on the back of their minds.

 

[Monty]

"I already played this game 34 times, I already know all this stuff dummy!11" and "LOL ROGUEY IS A FEMINIST SHES A GIRL LOLOL RAEP HURDUR" are not legitimate criticisms of a video game review.

Yes and 'Sawyer worked on Aliens he must be obsessed by Rape' and 'if you deliberately use this cheesy exploit it ruins the balance of the game' are not really legitimate criticisms of a game.

Actually, the Aliens thing is a bit if a stretch, even for Roguey. Usually his trolling is a bit more subtle than that so he must have been struggling for trademark material in this case.

 

[Andyman Messiah]

everyone knows her views

Well if Andyman can LARP as a horse....

Ever since I got the avatar I've found that it's easy to just play along. Goes well with my "no fucks given"-personality.

 

[Sitra Achara]

Review actually convinced me to buy (and it's my first IE game expect PST).

Playing about 10 hours of it made me really wish to play this game in a proper turn based engine (ToEE/KotC). What a shame.