Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[Bubbles]

Most of the credit I give it is in relation to D&D and Faerun as a whole, though, divorce BG2 of its roots in such and you'd probably get a game that looks like... well... Dragon Age. Yuck.

I can't tell who's trolling anymore.

 

[Rpguy]

it is fun to play

Aaahhh, there it is.
The "fun" argument, failing to mean anything substantial since the beginning of time.

Yes the "fun" part is the most important part of the game for me believe it or not , if I played the game for 50h+ and I still want to continue to play it, then it doesn't matter how many flaws youll point out ( which I totally agree with them all )
You want something substantial? fine, I think this game is better than SoZ. ( which roxxor thought is much better in the review )
Lets see:
Character build - you can mess that up in SoZ pretty easily.
Grindy shitty battles? Oh god the random encounters on the map in SoZ got boring fast - point click fest all the way. Story? Meh PoE is better.
Stronghold? both games had a useless stronghold with useless upgrades that just give you more tax from invisible people/subjects.
Recruitable companions - you could only get 2 in SoZ and if you had 1 line of special text in 10 hours of playing that would be a miracle.
Items? yes lets create a bastard sword +3 with flaming totally unique right?
Skills - useless in SoZ as well.
Spells? - you don't use more than 4 per level either.
Computer AI, pathing? please...
What exactly is better in SoZ? I can apply most of the bad things in PoE to it as well.
I played both games and I liked them. They were fun because I am a sucker for these types of rpgs.

 

[Goral]

It's the most discussed Codex review ever, even more than Fallout 3 review. Well done Darth Roxor .

Obsidian has always been a company that sounded great on paper and in their marketing, but never truly excel in their games. Their games have mostly been jumping on the backs of others, such as with KOTOR or NWN or FNV. They are utterly afraid of doing anything new, so they play it safe, and it always shows in their results. This was their chance to do it their own way and they played it generic and safe instead. This is an age where first person shooters are considered the mainstream rpg standard and people are desperate to fall in love with something, so here we are.

Well said. PoE was a clear cash grab and a bait for BG fans waiting on a worthy successor. They were certain that nostalgia will kick in and they will get easy money. Larian studios on the other hand took a huge risk by creating a turn based fantasy game where developers didn't have to copy any game but had (almost) a blank slate and they went from there. PoE was aimed for BG fans from the start and you're being reminded of that at every turn - for someone who's not a BG fan that is a huge flaw.

With that said I hope that Iron Tower will be rewarded for creating something as unique and enjoyable as AoD. To a lesser extent I wish all the best to Styg and WRF Studios too.

 

[SCO]

Ignore ZagorTeEdgy

 

[Angthoron]

Well said. PoE was a clear cash grab and a bait for BG fans waiting on a worthy successor. They were certain that nostalgia will kick in and they will get easy money..

To be fair, it's worth putting in some context - apparently it was a "do or die" situation for Obsidian, if not for the successful KS, they'd probably have to close doors. So naturally they went for the most likely option.

 

[Zeriel]

Most of the credit I give it is in relation to D&D and Faerun as a whole, though, divorce BG2 of its roots in such and you'd probably get a game that looks like... well... Dragon Age. Yuck.

I can't tell who's trolling anymore.

Nigga you best be playing, Faerun may be a retarded pastiche of fantasy cliches, dumb real-world-country-analogues, all mixed into a gray slurry of magical items... but it was also the most well-developed version of that whole thingamajigger, and if you're anyway going to be going that route as every RPG does, might as well have some fun with it.

Plus, faggotry aside, if we accept as gospel that BG2's main strength was gameplay, that's all owed to late 2nd Ed. D&D rules and nothing else, the legendary wizard battles of yore were only possible because of late 2E spellbooks being so bloated, further proven by all the 3E and later D&D RPGs being comparatively boring and bland in the same realm.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Well said. PoE was a clear cash grab and a bait for BG fans waiting on a worthy successor. They were certain that nostalgia will kick in and they will get easy money..

To be fair, it's worth putting in some context - apparently it was a "do or die" situation for Obsidian, if not for the successful KS, they'd probably have to close doors. So naturally they went for the most likely option.

And a great opportunity was lost...

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Ignore ZagorTeEdgy

#206, I'm honored.

 

[Stompa]

Character build - you can mess that up in SoZ pretty easily.

Either you didn't get the bulk of complaints about charbuilds in PoE or mean something else. Nobody is bitching about fucking up characters, people are disappointed in the lack of variety. It's less prominent for martial classes because for them at least weapons add some layer of complexity, but for casters it's just stack Might+Int+Dex to high heavens while dumping Per+Res and mostly not giving a fuck about talents. Shit's boring.

 

[Goral]

Well said. PoE was a clear cash grab and a bait for BG fans waiting on a worthy successor. They were certain that nostalgia will kick in and they will get easy money..

To be fair, it's worth putting in some context - apparently it was a "do or die" situation for Obsidian, if not for the successful KS, they'd probably have to close doors. So naturally they went for the most likely option.

Larian was also on the verge of bankruptcy but they still didn't go the Baldur's Gate clone route. Had DOS not sold well they would probably go bankrupt. http://www.pcgamer.com/how-divinity-original-sin-almost-bankrupted-larian-studios/

 

[Black]

Character build - you can mess that up in SoZ pretty easily.

Wait, is this supposed to be a flaw? :D

 

[Athelas]

Well said. PoE was a clear cash grab and a bait for BG fans waiting on a worthy successor. They were certain that nostalgia will kick in and they will get easy money..

To be fair, it's worth putting in some context - apparently it was a "do or die" situation for Obsidian, if not for the successful KS, they'd probably have to close doors. So naturally they went for the most likely option.

Not really, it was the tank MMO that kept them afloat for the long-term.

 

[Kattze]

Now, what do we make of PoE’s character system? Judged by its own merits, if I had to draw a comparison, I would call it the communism of character systems. Certainly, you have the feeling that everything you pick is kind of, sort of, equally useful (with some exceptions). But the flipside to this is that everything is also equally bland.

 

[Zeriel]

Come now, a review from a potato would not be complete without a reference to communism.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Not really, it was the tank MMO that kept them afloat for the long-term.

But they own PoE IP, won't that potentially bring them more money down the road (even if it's a somewhat niche game) than doing commission work?

 

[TheGreatOne]

If the game is fun you don't need skinner box XP. No one says Doom is a worse game for not giving XP when you kill demons.

The fact that PoE combat isn't fun for you is the problem, not the fact the game doesn't treat you like a hamster on a wheel.

Doom isn't a RPG.
Which of these tasks is most likely to make your warrior/barbarian stronger and better at killing things with a sword:
A)Practice - killing monsters/people
B)Fetching a loaf of bread for the blind man cuz he asked you to
C)Reading a book on how to punch people
D)Picking a lock
E)Walking in an area where you haven't been before
F)Writing an encylopedia of the local fauna

 

[felipepepe]

I just think the review might have been a bit better if it began by framing the enormous challenges that Obsidian faced in making the game, and the considerable successes they had in getting all the pieces in place, rather than suggesting that a $4.2M budget ensured an easy path to victory. Obviously, in terms of, "Is the end product great? Should I buy this game?" all the good intentions, hard work, and foundation-laying in the world don't matter. But when things veer from judging the game's quality to to judging its significance or what went into its creation, I think you do have to consider the challenges and positive externalities associated with POE.

I understand where you are coming from, but if one adds this, shouldn't him also add the other side? Things like how Obsidian already had BioWare's blueprint, the advancements from D&D 3rd and 4th editions, 20 years of technological progress, and a team with some of the most experienced RPG developers in the world? Part of the team actually worked on IE games back then, no company in the world was better qualified for this task.

This isn't a lone guy in his basement doing a spiritual successor to a classic game with zero budget ('sup Styg), they are fucking professionals, who set out to do this, asked for our trust and honestly even gloated about "how most rulesets suck". Yet here we are, with a game that fails in basic RPG 101 things like encounter design. An average P&P DM could do better than this. About every goddamn RPG or MMO out there does it better.

"They tried their best and delivered something" doesn't cut here, especially since we already saw them doing much, much better.

 

[Athelas]

Not really, it was the tank MMO that kept them afloat for the long-term.

But they own PoE IP, won't that potentially bring them more money down the road (even if it's a somewhat niche game) than doing commission work?

It could, but I think Feargus might not want to settle for making niche RPG's.

 

[Suicidal]

I find PoE a lot better than Baldur's Gate 1 and slightly worse than Baldur's Gate 2. If PoE 2 won't be at least as good as BG2 then I'll get angry but in the mean time i'm pretty

 

[hiver]

the enormous challenges that Obsidian faced in making the game

What would those be?

the considerable successes they had in getting all the pieces in place

what would those be?

and if pieces are bad how can gestalt of them be good?
the answer is - it cant.


These two terms are nothing but inventions that have no relevance in reality but are invented out of thin air to serve as an excuse.


The worst thing about this kind of "logic" is that its completely unnecessary. The game has a few features that are mediocre, despite having potential to be really good - like the text adventures, or some plot points that were fucked up in execution - and art design that is good.

Thats why the gestalt is mediocre game barely better then BG1 and IWD in some things and worse in all others than BG2.

 

[Athelas]

Part of the team actually worked on IE games back then, no company in the world was better qualified for this task.

They don't seem to really like the IE games very much though.

 

[PocketMine]

Let's be honest here: had this game been so flawless and good as some people claim Darth Roxor's arguments would fall on their own. The fact is however they are spot on and the only thing PoE fanboys are doing right now is either calling DR an idiot or saying that the flaws are minor. The thing is, even when you assume that the things DR mentioned are minor, they do stack up and that says something. Sure you can ignore it all but for many people these things ruin the gaming experience.

Another interesting thing: the fact alone that this game brings such controversy shows that Obsidian did something wrong and DR did something right. This game will probably be even more controversial than Wasteland 2 (judging by number of replies in this thread). I'm in the pro-Wasteland camp but I can understand the hate for W2. On the other hand I don't even care about PoE but with the amount of butthurt I'm reading I'll definitely check it out once it's on sale. So again, DR has done something right by advertising this game (I would argue that this kind of review is the best advertisement on the Codex, better than 10/10 review).

And why is it so strange that someone would consider this the worst Obsidian game? If you have the least amount of fun when playing it then it is the worst. Just like someone might ignore Fallout flaws and call it the best cRPG ever, one can dismiss PoE's merits when compared to flaws because they ruin the fun. I think some people have problems with reading with comprehension - DR wrote "worst Obsidian game" and "mediocre/underwhelming game" not "shitty game".

At beginning game starts promising. Act I isnt half as bad with Bîaŵac event. First village greets you with a chrismas hangmans tree. Hanged animancer making fun of you is a nice touch. Temple of Eothas dungeon right belllow is a great starting dungeon a small sample what this engine can offer. Raedrics Hold at the end of act I is best location ingame.

My suspicion is after implementing and game testing Raedrics Hold obsidian realised they are way behind of schedule. There are 150 more maps to do. Using the same multi approach method (fight/sneak/diplo) Raedrics Hold has would delay game realease by months/years. One solution would be to cut alot maps but make rest memorable or fill the rest with "Pillars of Trashmobs" They went with the second option and this is why PoT is so bland after act I.

As for writting quality i suggest Obsidian to not pay writters by amount of words but by quality of writting it will also make reading and translation easier. By the end of game i couldnt remember which god is which. When i phoned them they were angry i didnt recognise them and sent more trashmobs after me.

 

[Ulrox]

Part of the team actually worked on IE games back then, no company in the world was better qualified for this task.

They don't seem to really like the IE games very much though.

Which is part of why they cannot correctly make a clone. Their hearts must become ONE with IE!

 

[Cassidy]

making niche RPG's.

Besides the lack of multiplayer, Pillars of Eternity is as niche as World of Warcraft and Defense of the Ancients. Not that they aren't dreaming of a future where they will replace Bioware and forsake any foolish oldschool RPG fan who naively believes Obsidian wants them rather than a swath of the MOBA, MMO, Skyrim and Bioware crowds as their target audience.

 

[Athelas]

My suspicion is after implementing and game testing Raedrics Hold obsidian realised they are way behind of schedule.

Raedric's Hold was one of the last areas they developed, and apparently came about without all that much planning or preparation.
https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/70682-new-screenshots-have-a-look-at-raedrics-hold/?p=1579169