Review RPG Codex Review: Dead State

[Zombra]

- The fog of war/perception/spotting mechanics being broken and/or really poorly abstracted. Like I said, I don't remember the specifics, but I think it was mostly about absurdities such as not being able to see enemies on the other side of the street, enemies not reacting to getting shot at, etc.

Weird. Decidedly not my experience.

- Enemies not reacting to getting shot at was also an effect of the 'noise' mechanic, which made silent stuff like bows hilariously broken. IIRC he'd show me screens or tell me about instances where he'd slaughter entire hordes of stuff without any opposition just because he was using the bow.

Could be. I tried bows once or twice, but guns had better stats and zombies didn't scare me, so I just used guns at range.

- The 'attention to detail' thingy also springs to mind when he showed me some screens of walled in rooms inside houses, balconies that don't have doors, etc. Or one thing that made really laugh was how at one point you can build a watchtower at the shelter, and the watchtower is dumped right in front of a huge tree that completely obstructs its frontal view. This is like the Korean demilitarised zone all over again!

Could be. I never noticed any inconsistencies like that, but ... I could just be dumb.

- The bugs. You talk about how they are grossly exaggerated but that definitely wasn't the case when he played the game. Although obviously bugs are the biggest 'your mileage may vary' aspect of all games, so eh.

Yeah. Could be something as simple as he had a crap computer. More likely, I'd guess your buddy was playing before the late-December patch, which did fix some stuff I didn't report on because I knew it would be irrelevant by publish date.

But I still don't think you should just handwave them away like you did in the review, especially since it looked to me like it really was obviously booted out of early access just to make it for them sweet christmas sales that were just around the corner.

Maybe I should have been more skeptical, but I honestly did have a smooth experience overall with only a few bumps, so the 'Xmas cash grab' theory didn't ring true for me. Maybe my configuration happens to be the only one they did QA for; I don't know. I can only report on my experience.

Obviously the above notes are rather vague/general, but unfortunately it's all I remember. The game itself simply seemed like shovelware to me from his pics and broadcasts, I guess my brian didn't feel like storing the info for too long.

No reason why it should; you received strong information and reached a reasonable conclusion. The question now is: who do you really trust????

 

[Burning Bridges]

I think you pulled another ironyuri here.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Funny, I always thought the Codex was the site that could say the obvious "bad game is bad", but it apparently only applies to AAA titles. :D

 

[tindrli]

its a good game that needs polishing

 

[Zombra]

Funny, I always thought the Codex was the site that could say the obvious "bad game is bad", but it apparently only applies to AAA titles. :D

Seems like a lot of people expect that the Codex has to say that about every game, regardless of the truth. Sorry to disappoint

 

[Acleacius]

I know this might be controversial but, Great review!

 

[Zombra]

Zorba the Hutt
Jesus christ. Just for fun, I counted the number of times I use the word "but" in the course of the review. 56 times out of 6097 words. About once every 6 sentences. The cadence of "there's this, but conversely there's that" is ingrained even deeper into my writing (and thinking) than I imagined.

Value-neutral "buts": 14
"A is bad, but related B is good": 27
"X is good, but related Y is bad": 15

So yeah, my "apologetic buts" outnumber my "disappointment buts" by almost 2:1. There's no doubt about it; I like to start with a negative thought and turn it positive.

I know this might be controversial but, Great review!

You came out of a 3-year retirement just to post that. I'm flattered

 

[PhantasmaNL]

Good comprehensive review. I think ill wait for the balance patch and give it a try then.

 

[Sensuki]

The most surprising thing I read in the review was that the game ran well, was well optimized and generally looked pretty good - I wasn't expecting that from this game.



Well done Programmers (Elhoim)

 

[uaciaut]

A combat system can be well designed while not being optimally implemented (i.e. difficulty level).
I mean maybe it's far easier for me to kill a Deathclaw in New Vegas than an albino radscorpion in Fallout 3, but NV's system is miles ahead due to DT AND DR existing, so the numbers obviously just have to be tweaked. Meanwhile the most F3 can do is stamp a 95% DR number on an enemy and it makes it difficult to kill - and in no way does that make it a well designed combat system.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Funny, I always thought the Codex was the site that could say the obvious "bad game is bad", but it apparently only applies to AAA titles. :D

Seems like a lot of people expect that the Codex has to say that about every game, regardless of the truth. Sorry to disappoint

From my playing experience, the game IS quite bad. Nothing to do with the Codex having to say anything. Sorry to disappoint

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Banner Saga has a simple but well designed and balanced TB system, Shadowrun has a simple but fun system with many different approaches, Blackguards has a complex but obtuse system, D:OS has a complex but unbalanced system, ... these are just some of the TB competitors that came out last year that Dead state has to compete with, put against them Dead State's combat system fails miserably in all regards.

Huh, I wasn't aware it was a competition. My bad.

What makes Banner Saga's better designed? I never played it because it seemed pretty dull. Blackguards' "complex and obtuse" doesn't sound better at all; nor does D:OS' "complex and unbalanced" sound better than DS' "simple and unbalanced". It sounds like you like complexity for the sake of complexity - in that case, when you read that my review says DS is less complex, you should be able to take away the information that you might not like it as well as something more complex. So ... thanks for reading.

And really, you're going to tout Shadowrun's 2AP combat as a resounding triumph over DS? ... Okay.

I'm sorry but of all the listed TB titles last year Dead State has been by far the worst (nb: haven't played Banner Saga).

Clunky engine, filler combat, trite story/characters.

Zombies, k.

Gave me the 'get over bad first impressions and you'll have a good time, there's a good game buried somewhere underneath' hunch like with many other classics. Won't trust that hunchy hunch again.

 

[Gerulas]

Dead State is like a box of zombie-chocolates.
You never know what you're gonna scavenge...

Spoiler

​

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

An unfinished game where you spend half the time collecting junk and hauling it back to base and the other half killing generic mobs of zombies gets a glowing review.

 

[TwinkieGorilla]

What the heck does the face that never remembered have to do with it? Ban Tommy Wiseau for misuse of an emoticon.

 

[Lurker King]

An unfinished game where you spend half the time collecting junk and hauling it back to base and the other half killing generic mobs of zombies gets a glowing review.

The “junk” is weapons, food, luxury items to increase comfort and stuff to upgrade your shelter, making the loot perfectly integrated in the survivalist theme of the game – I whish I could say the same thing about W2. The generic mobs are in most cases completely avoidable. In fact, part of the fun is to know how to avoid those fights, either by sneaking behind them or using items like the noisemaker. Does the game has balance problems? Sure, especially near the end. But many recent games that had much more budget and development time has been praised and have the same problems. D:OS has been praised as a classic and is completely broken. People are talking trash about the game in the most dishonest and insincere manner, and for all the wrong reasons. I don’t give a shit if Annie Mitsoda is a SJW, some developer deleted a troll review or the game has zombies in it.

 

[Kem0sabe]

The “junk” is weapons, food, luxury items to increase comfort and stuff to upgrade your shelter, making the loot perfectly integrated in the survivalist theme of the game – I whish I could say the same thing about W2. The generic mobs are in most cases completely avoidable. In fact, part of the fun is to know how to avoid those fights, either by sneaking behind them or using items like the noisemaker. Does the game has balance problems? Sure, especially near the end. But many recent games that had much more budget and development time has been praised and have the same problems. D:OS has been praised as a classic and is completely broken. People are talking trash about the game in the most dishonest and insincere manner, and for all the wrong reasons. I don’t give a shit if Annie Mitsoda is a SJW, some developer deleted a troll review or the game has zombies in it.

Are you seriously defending the stealth and encounters design in the game? You can have a map filled with zombies and kill them off one by one with a single character, from behind without the mobs next to it noticing, rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

It's not stealth, it's exploiting a broken system.

It was a mistake using the AoD engine, it's fine for that game because it relies more on dialogue than combat and doesn't use firearms or stealth, but for a zombie rpg in a modern day setting, it's woefully inadequate.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

D:OS has been praised as a classic and is completely broken.

D:OS combat is fun, for a while. Is DS combat ever fun?

 

[Lurker King]

Are you seriously defending the stealth and encounters design in the game? You can have a map filled with zombies and kill them off one by one with a single character, from behind without the mobs next to it noticing, rinse and repeat ad nauseum.

So? The last time I checked, zombies are stupid as you can get, and the noise created by a single hit behind the head is small.

It's not stealth, it's exploiting a broken system.

This is unfair. The game has a noise system and items to make noise and avoid battles. This is not a ultra-complex stealth system, but it makes a huge difference in terms of gameplay.

It was a mistake using the AoD engine, it's fine for that game because it relies more on dialogue than combat and doesn't use firearms or stealth, but for a zombie rpg in a modern day setting, it's woefully inadequate.

The AoD engine seems to have the same problems of Unity with populated areas. I don’t think that Double-Bear would have better alternatives for this type of game, even if they could afford it. For me the real bummer is to have a turn-based combat with a lot of slow and weak zombies. They could make things more interesting by making the zombies more fast ("28 days later" anyone?), strong and few in numbers – more zombies can appear due to the noise, as they already do.

 

[Lurker King]

D:OS combat is fun, for a while. Is DS combat ever fun?

The combat is fun in the beginning, when you don’t have a good gear and is still learning all the details of the combat system. You can die. Afterwards, most battles are piece of cake and only seven or eight big battles are epic. The armor system is completely unbalanced, but it is fixable.

 

[Black_Willow]

An unfinished game where you spend half the time collecting junk

Is it Arcanum thread now?

 

[GloomFrost]

Good review. as for the game itself...... disappointing, couldnt finish it. Dropped it after about 40 days. Unbalanced, boring and tedious combat (and a lot of it) plus a SHITLOAD of bugs after the release was more then I could handle. The writing is good however, all characters are memorable and fun to talk to. Might give it another go after re balancing patch comes out.

 

[Sensuki]

The AoD engine seems to have the same problems of Unity with populated areas.

Populated areas didn't seem to be a problem in Wasteland 2 - they had plenty of units in them and the frame rate was good. Memory on the other hand ..

 

[Jaedar]

This thread is pretty cool. A good selection of trolls, dissenters, and what I can only assume to be alts of Zombra and infinitron.

It's a shame the game isn't good.

 

[Zombra]

Are you seriously defending the stealth and encounters design in the game? You can have a map filled with zombies and kill them off one by one with a single character, from behind without the mobs next to it noticing, rinse and repeat ad nauseum. It's not stealth, it's exploiting a broken system.

Really? You don't think it was intentional that you could sneak around and bust heads one by one? Just because you don't press a modifier key to do the stupid crouch-walk that popamolers associate with stealth doesn't mean it's not stealth.

And no, you can't succeed at that on a map "filled with zombies". When they're close enough and/or facing you, they will notice you. Often you can get away with it, sometimes you can't, and occasionally it's a middle ground where you have to reallllly think about it if you're going to make it work. There is a good deal of dynamic tension: will they notice me or not? And as I said in the review, the encounter design really does vary a lot across the game. Sure, there are a lot of zones with similar encounter design: chalk that up to there being so many maps.

D:OS combat is fun, for a while. Is DS combat ever fun?

The combat is fun in the beginning, when you don’t have a good gear and is still learning all the details of the combat system. You can die. Afterwards, most battles are piece of cake and only seven or eight big battles are epic. The armor system is completely unbalanced, but it is fixable.

Yep. The reason combat gets dull is not because of the system; it's because of crap balance. I had the same experience as LK. Great fun in the beginning, then bored.