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Community RPG Codex Top Ten Vintage RPGs Poll Results

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
All this reminds me of a nice cordial dinner discussion among the Unseen Academicals. The only question — who is the monkey?

QybxWFd.jpg
Try calling the Librarian M-word, if you like to find out how easy it's to eat without arms.
 

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Further discussion on the term "blobber" should be censored by the administration until we finally find a way to agree on what an RPG is. Categorizing RPGs is meaningless if we don't know what that word means.
 

Atlantico

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We know Disco Elysium is an RPG because, as Atlantico eloquently puts it, it says so in the box.

You are one stupid sudaco chimp.

The only thing you can vomit out are imaginary arguments that never happened, chimp out over them and have the other simians ook ook and fling shit in glee.

Never once did I claim that what is on the back of a box defines what kind of game it is, but that lends credence to it being a real genre.

Can your chimp brain fathom this? What about the other chimps?

Nobody describes their game as a blobber (unless they're mentally ill; see Clefford) because it isn't a genre. It isn't a thing. You dumb fuck.
 

Fowyr

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Nobody describes their game as a blobber (unless they're mentally ill; see Clefford) because it isn't a genre. It isn't a thing. You dumb fuck.
And when someone describes (see CryptRat) you dismiss it as "not a game".
We got it, sweetie.
As if what you like changes anything. Someone thinks highly of himself.
I have somewhat good, I think, grasp on the genre. So if I recommend game - it's a good game. Simple as this.
On the other hand, I tried to find some your posts in GRPGD and you never even mentioned Wizardry or Dragon Wars.
News about Sundog were pretty nice, though.
So, probably your taste is shit.
 
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Atlantico

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On the other hand, I tried to find some your posts in GRPGD and you never even mentioned Wizardry or Dragon Wars.
News about Sundog were pretty nice, though.
So, probably your taste is shit.

Here's the thing; I could have the shittiest taste in games on this planet, and "blobber" would still not be a name of a genre that exists irl.

It's forced and artificial. Like "gridder".

So why not use "gridder"? Because it isn't used on the Codex. That's the only reason.
 
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Fowyr

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It's forced and artificial. Like "gridder".
So why not use "gridder"? Because it isn't used on the Codex. That's the only reason.
It's ultimately harmless monicker that gives a lot information about game itself.
If you want to direct your youthful enthusiasm, you should start campaign against using term "roguelike" by normies that call fucking card games and platformers "roguelikes".
 

Sigourn

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Here's the thing; I could have the shittiest taste in games on this planet, and "blobber" would still not be a name of a genre that exists irl.

Who the fuck says blobber is a genre you dense mother fucker.
It would be like saying that Skyrim and GTA V belong to the same genre just because both are open world games.

We are just describing basic gameplay similarities by using "blobber". Shit, you Portuguese truly are the niggers of Europe. Even think like ones.
 

Atlantico

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Who the fuck says blobber is a genre you dense mother fucker.

I guess you just have to read the posts to find out. I'm not keeping a list.

It's ultimately harmless monicker that gives a lot information about game itself.

I wouldn't mind it if it did give any information about the genre, but it doesn't. Every time people try to explain the name, it becomes apparent that the name applies equally to EotB and Ultima V and jprgs of various pedigree.

So no, it doesn't give any information. It doesn't even give the wrong information, it's just without inherent meaning. You could just as well call it "gridder". Why not? It's just as arbitrary, opaque and useless.

If you want to direct your youthful enthusiasm, you should start campaign against using term "roguelike" by normies that call fucking card games and platformers "roguelikes".

I hold people on the Codex to a higher standard — besides, if I would say anything like that irl people would look at me funny. Our hobby isn't exactly mainstream.
 

Fowyr

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I wouldn't mind it if it did give any information about the genre, but it doesn't. Every time people try to explain the name, it becomes apparent that the name applies equally to EotB and Ultima V and jprgs of various pedigree.
If someone calls Ultima 5 "blobber" - he needs, as BLOBERT aptly said, a brian surgeon. You could say that U5 sometimes "blobbery" in dungeons, but it's not a blobber. Most of the time you spend on the tile combat maps (rooms in the dungeon and random encouter maps), the tile cities and tile global map.
Just like Pool of the Radiance or Albion are not blobbers, because they have a shitton of tactical combat where game stops being the "first-person party RPG where party moves and acts as one".
 

Atlantico

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If someone calls Ultima 5 "blobber" - he needs, as BLOBERT aptly said, a brian surgeon. You could say that U5 sometimes "blobbery" in dungeons, but it's not a blobber. Most of the time you spend on the tile combat maps (rooms in the dungeon), the tile cities and tile global map.

Sure, but because term is so nebulous and unhelpful, that is going to happen. You know it is inevitable.

Because the term "blobber" is only descriptive if you already know what it is supposed to mean.

Which is why "gridder" is just as terrible. Two terms, both opaque and unhelpful.

Dungeon Master-like game. There you go.

That immediately defines and describes the type of game unambiguously. At least until normies co-opt it like they did with Rogue-like and Adventure-games. But that's neither here nor there.

U5, Pool of Radiance and Albion are obviously not Dungeon Master-like games, but some might easily think they're "blobbers" or "gridders".
 

BarãodoDesterro

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Geez, I've come here to see a prestigious discussion about "RPG Codex Top Ten Vintage RPGs Poll Results", not to debate philosophy of language, well...


  • It's revisionist -- People referred to these games simply as "RPGs" back in the day, or even just "adventures" (yes that's right, check out a few magazines from the 80s and 90s)
  • It's imprecise -- Its proponents claim that it's a specific term, while it's far from it in reality. It tries to categorise games by a secondary (at best) attribute ("party moves/fights together as a blob" - duh), while neglecting the much more important primary game mechanics:
Generally, I also like terms to be clear and well-defined. As long as we communicate with language, semantics is all we have.

Firstly, I am addressing your post specifically because I considered you cordial and respectful when portraying your opinion. Maybe something slipped, but you are not attacking other Codexers and people in general, so it is possible to have a productive and qualified discussion. Secondly, even though I read Lycan, Austin and Wittgenstein in English, considering I read the others in my native tongue, my notes are on a different language, therefore, when I retranslate it (because I'm now too lazy to go search), some strange vocables may emerge (but the idea, hopefully, will be preserved).

The problem I see (discussing only semantics — I won't go full pragmatic till next next paragraph), is that even since Kripke we realized terms are not clear, well-defined and precise. It is not that the terms should not describe, as portrayed by Russel, (describe as clear, well-defined, precise) things (names are nothing more than abbreviated definite descriptions), but we realized that they normally, on daily basis, don't do it: what should be is not what it is. And that leads us to Kripke's causal-historic communication chain (the fixation of the reference, the baptism, is, more than less, inappropriate — but appropriate, because that is how humanity does it, for better or worse).

People, always, baptize things that already exist differently, sometimes even for political-ideological reasons. Take gothic architecture, for instance. The Frankish people building churches never used the term to describe their style, but some Italian guy, 500 hundred years later, in other to delegitimize the movement, called "Frankish high middle age architecture" gothic (as in German barbarians that did not exist for a thousand years). Not only if someone says gothic today we will automatically think about that type of building (even though the term does not describe and is revisionist), but we started calling books, compositions, people, subgenres of rock and so on gothic (including a game: even if the game is German, it probably is somewhat infected by this chain). That is the thing, lots of terms are interchangeable and there are different chains of casual-historic communication.

That was only semantics view, which is objectively outdated. Wittgenstein, Austin and Grice won't even waste time discussing reference.


Prescriptive speech doesn't work unless you're French.

Actually, it works (in my political view) more than it should. Supposedly, our EE UU friends can talk more about it, Strunk's "The Elements of Style" has been purging dissidents for over one hundred years. It is quite true that prescriptive grammar does not affect the everyday speaker, but it is not the everyday speaker which becomes presidents, judges, journal editors, philosophers, and so on.
 
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Rincewind

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The Frankish people building churches never used the term to describe their style, but some Italian guy, 500 hundred years later, in other to delegitimize the movement, called "Frankish high middle age architecture" gothic (as in German barbarians that did not exist for a thousand years). Not only if someone says gothic today we will automatically think about that type of building (even though the term does not describe and is revisionist), but we started calling books, compositions, people, subgenres of rock and so on gothic (including a game: even if the game is German, it probably is somewhat infected by this chain). That is the thing, lots of terms are interchangeable and there are different chains of casual-historic communication.

That's an interesting point and never thought about it that way (that "gothic" is a revisionist category). But I noticed that in English "gothic" is used for so many things, e.g. I had no idea what a "gothic novel" was when I first encountered the term. In my native language (Hungarian), "gothic" is used for three things only: gothic architecture (mainly cathedrals), gothic lettering, and recently for gothic music, and that's it. It's interesting that these categories are also very much culture & language specific.

Actually, it works (in my political view) more than it should. Supposedly, our EE UU friends can talk more about it, Strunk's "The Elements of Style" has been purging dissidents for over one hundred years. It is quite true that prescriptive grammar does not affect the everyday speaker, but it is not the everyday speaker which becomes presidents, judges, journal editors, philosophers, and so on.

Thats's another interesting point; I still haven't got over the fact that neither UK or American English has an official grammar. The vast majority of languages do have an official regulatory body that defines the standard grammar, and that is what's being taught at school to kids. For example, in Hungary you can go to a bookstore and buy a copy of the current edition of the grammar and even a thesaurus with all the officially recognised words (which is always a bit controversial, but slang is not considered official anyway). I assume the situation is similar in other countries. Whereas in English the best you've got is the myriad of slightly conflicting style guides written by publishing houses and newspapers. Weird.
 

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