Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[WhiskeyWolf]

Of course Starfield will be nothing like SC - for one thing, it will be released - but it's still amusing to see the SCultists sweating.

 

[RobotSquirrel]

We all know what Todd's concept of "hand crafted is", the same 3 options and 1 sarcastic reply.
Bethesda is not known for its quality, its known for its quantity and rebadging the same tired game over and over.

Its also funny how everyone is still just trying to replicate what Elite 2 did in the 90s. Like, come on it's getting tiring.

 

[JamesDixon]

Because SQ42 is completely different type of game than SC and Starfield is. Starfield has more in common with SC than with SQ42. SQ42 is mostly linear cinematic game based on missions rather than open world sandbox. The whole point of it is to play space sim in set of missions that makes you think you are in movie or something.

SC on other hand is you starting from nothing, taking jobs, exploring, buying better bigger ships, maybe making a colony, doing some quests for people etc. which is very similar to starfield but with other people and without player stats.



You can have hand crafted system and completely dynamic economy quests at the same time. OR mix of it etc. You can have dynamic quests where no one waits for you to show up which is what currently happens in some jobs. Like some player is hacking into SAT and you get quest to defend that site. If you don't go there dude will be able to clean his record avoiding prison time but if you show up and take him out dude goes to prison for presumably good amount of time.

We don't know enough about starfield but i doubt Betsheda created some sort of world simulation.

 

[Gargaune]

Before I get the whole "accountability to backers" spiel, anyone from that original pitch had until 2017 to get a refund with ease. That was three, arguably four years of knowing that the game had grown well beyond the original pitch including one year of the persistent universe being playable to backers. Now it's harder to get that refund as it should be given that they've been running the game as a live service for the past five years.
Despite all that, even though I think anyone unhappy deserves to be parted with their money and feel burned out of principle of waiting this long to decide they want a refund, those fuckers can still go online and sell their pledge for probably more than double what they paid ten years ago so anyone clutching their pearls over the whole backer accountability argument can fuck right off.

What a miserable fucking argument. I try to keep it light, I'm just here for a laugh, but it's this slavish, callous devotion to Roberts that makes me lose any sympathy for where you're at. Just 'cause what CIG's doing is legal don't make it proper, and you keep coming back to how it's the suckers' fault for not refunding sooner, but you ignore the obvious question - WHY didn't they refund sooner?

Because they had faith in Roberts. When CIG floated the "more money, better game" argument, they bought it and they bought the .JPGs. When time and again, it looked like the big breakthrough to tie it all together was just around the corner, they waited. The goal posts kept moving, Next Friday kept coming and going, and they kept thinking "it was originally slated for 2014 and we're already X past, it can't be much longer now", wallowing in a sunk cost fallacy and willfully mistaking CIG's new business model for scope creep. Their confidence outran the refund cutoff, and now they can only be rid of their "asset" by offloading it onto a bigger sucker.

Yes, they were stupid, and yes, stupidity has a price, but that doesn't mean you should applaud banking on it, you delusional fucking tool.

 

[Myobi]

Starfield has more in common with SC than with SQ42. SQ42 is mostly linear cinematic game based on missions rather than open world sandbox.

I have yet to play any of them, therefore I'll just take your word for it, however comparing an single player sandbox story driven space sim with a MMO Space Sim instead of another single player sandbox story driven space sim just because it might be less "sandboxish" sounds silly.

The original pitch is irrelevant.

To whom?

A completely valid one

It doesn’t matter what ARMA is doing or not, that’s not the point.

“You criticize X but Y also does it!” implies that you can’t criticize something as long as there is something just as bad or even worse than it out there, or that in order to criticize something you need to actively do it to everything that’s just as bad or worse than it.

It’s a retarded argument, that serves no purpose, just like you.

Don't give a shit about the microtransactions

Just as above, you are still missing the point.

I don’t care about your personal opinion about microtransactions, just because you don’t give a shit about sitting on top of a cactus doesn’t mean others need to be fine with it as well. You said that “EVERYTHING” that another user is criticizing Star Citizen for is being done by another user, I merely brought out one example of many why Star Citizen is criticized for to show you how ridiculous that sounds, trust me when I tell you that no other video game has been in development for over a decade with over half a billion dollars in crowdfunded money in the pocket still stuck in a alpha testing phase with over half the content still missing, selling microtransactions that have a direct effect on the your gameplay experience of those around you, for thousands and thousands of dollars, all while being completely reliant on a technology that still gave no signs of life.

 

[Crispy]

Leave it to Master Todd to crush the hopes and dreams of Star Citizen fans worldwide.

 

[ADL]

To whom?

To anyone rational or reasonable on the subject given that refunds were openly available for a long fucking time after it was made extremely clear that the game significantly grew in scope. By the time the persistent universe launched in late 2015 the game had raised almost 100 million dollars (50 times the requested amount). Those people had almost a year to refund after that. They didn't.

As a backer, why would you want the $2 million pitch anyways? Presumably if you're funding a Chris Roberts game on Kickstarter you want to support his ambition and that includes shooting for the stars which he has always done. If you're too damn impatient to wait for the "finished product" even though the persistent universe exists and is far better than any of the competition then I have the perfect game for you, it's called Elite Dangerous and it sucks ass even after two expansions and seven years of post-launch updates.

It doesn’t matter what ARMA is doing or not, that’s not the point.

It does matter what ARMA is doing because it provides context for the competition and I'm not interested in discussing Star Citizen without context because that's fucking retarded. Everyone wants to compare Star Citizen's development timeline to generic AAA shit that takes half the development time but there's a reason those games take half the time, they're not doing anything particularly innovative or technically challenging meaning they get to rely on standard tools and they're not even remotely close to the scale of Star Citizen. Additionally they're made by established teams with predetermined budgets yadda yadda yadda.

Star Citizen has ARMA levels of simulation at a much larger scale and the problems they both currently have are practically interchangeable. Fortunately for the creators of ARMA, they don't have a sizable faction of schizos that turned hating their game into their defining personality trait shitposting about every move they make. Contrary to belief of the people who post here, scale is not irrelevant and you can't have a decent discussion about Star Citizen without acknowledging the scale. That includes the subhumans who go after Star Citizen's graphics because a hallway in the latest Call of Duty looks better than Star Citizen's persistent universe without loading screens or instancing of any sort.

Speaking of other subjects where context matters. Pay2Win. That whole argument falls apart pretty quickly when you actually know a damn thing about the game but I've already responded to that on the last page.

Their confidence outran the refund cutoff, and now they can only be rid of their "asset" by offloading it onto a bigger sucker.

I like how I'm the bad guy because I don't think you should be able to go to a restaurant, enjoy a meal, shit it out, freeze it for six years and show up with it in a plastic bag demanding a refund after all that time on mere principle. You say they're suckers I say they're willing customers that have a decade's worth of information on the game, thousands of hours of footage, developers that are extremely open about what they're doing within reason of not spoiling big surprises/reveals/showcases and even the ability to play it for free every couple months. Additionally if they're buying the game directly from CIG, they have a standard 30 day return window.

 

[Gargaune]

I like how I'm the bad guy because I don't think you should be able to go to a restaurant, enjoy a meal, shit it out, freeze it for six years and show up with it in a plastic bag demanding a refund after all that time on mere principle.

They didn't get the meal, for fuck's sake, they paid up front and got half an appetizer at best! And every ten minutes, the waiter told 'em it'll just be ten more minutes. Now it's three hours later, they're pissed, and the waiter's pointing at the No Refunds sign while the guy at the next table - you - declares it's all only their fault because they still believed the waiter after the first half hour.

You say they're suckers I say they're willing customers that have a decade's worth of information on the game, thousands of hours of footage, developers that are extremely open about what they're doing within reason of not spoiling big surprises/reveals/showcases and even the ability to play it for free every couple months. Additionally if they're buying the game directly from CIG, they have a standard 30 day return window.

That's EU regulations on distance selling and we're not talking about new customers wanting to refund after a couple of weeks, we're talking about the poor fools who've been on this ride for years and now they're sick of waiting but they can't get off. The people you said "had until 2017 to get a refund with ease" and that they "deserve(s) to be parted with their money and feel burned out of principle of waiting this long to decide they want a refund." You know, the people who had still faith in CIG and stuck with 'em after failing to read between the lines of the No Refunds sign when it went up.

 

[ADL]

They didn't get the meal, for fuck's sake, they paid up front and got half an appetizer at best!

That's bullshit though. The persistent universe as it stands now and even back then is a hundred times the game what Star Citizen was going to be under the $2 million pitch. The first iteration of the game that people pledged for didn't even have planetary gameplay for god's sake. Might not be 70 star systems as stated but we have fully simulated planets now that aren't just landing zones so let's call that a wash. There's entire gameplay loops in the persistent universe that weren't mentioned in the pitch anywhere. This one system has more content in the game than the entirety of Elite Dangerous' trillion star systems or whatever and that's pretty much what Star Citizen backers were going to get under the original pitch.

Am I supposed to feel these people didn't get more than what they paid for? Am I supposed to side with them over the fact that they're 'still waiting' even though the persistent universe has been live and thoroughly enjoyable for years? The only people I feel even remotely sympathetic towards are the people who have been exclusively waiting for Squadron 42 but even that's a weird thing because that's been greatly expanded as well.

At the time, Squadron 42 was described as a single player prologue that you'd play before going into the persistent universe (Star Citizen). The overwhelming majority of the pitch focused on Star Citizen. After Star Citizen got funded for hundreds of millions of dollars it became a full price title with a full length campaign so even they're getting more than what they were promised. Yeah it's taking a lot longer than expected but it shares assets and gameplay mechanics with Star Citizen so at least you have the main course in the meantime. The minimum package for Star Citizen on the Kickstarter which included Squadron 42 was $35. That's the exact package I have on my account. Now Star Citizen alone costs $45 and a Star Citizen plus Squadron 42 bundle costs $65 with the intent for each to be $60 games at release meaning $55 saved as a significant pre-order discount that includes immediate access to Star Citizen now.

 

[Lim-Dûl]

Imagine defending a game that was supposed to come out like ten years ago.

 

[Grauken]

Imagine defending a game that was supposed to come out like ten years ago.

At this point its not a game anymore but a cult

 

[Gargaune]

That's bullshit though. The persistent universe as it stands now and even back then is a hundred times the game what Star Citizen was going to be under the $2 million pitch. [...] Am I supposed to feel these people didn't get more than what they paid for?

Yes, you are, because they didn't! They paid for a videogame, a complete videogame product, one that was originally supposed to come out in 2014, not for a laundry list of disparate parts. They didn't get that, they're looking at a public Alpha with some of the bits they paid for, a whole bunch of bits they never asked for, and a whole other bunch of bits that are nowhere in sight. If I pay you for a burger and fries and you bring me two steaks instead, you're not giving me "more than what I paid for."

Am I supposed to side with them over the fact that they're 'still waiting' even though the persistent universe has been live and thoroughly enjoyable for years?

You're supposed to side with them over the fact they're "still waiting" for Star Citizen to release.

 

[None]

Of course Starfield will be nothing like SC - for one thing, it will be released - but it's still amusing to see the SCultists sweating.

The real question is: how many times will Starfield be re-released before Star Citizen is actually complete?

 

[Myobi]

To anyone rational or reasonable on the subject given that refunds were openly available for a long fucking time after it was made extremely clear that the game significantly grew in scope. By the time the persistent universe launched in late 2015 the game had raised almost 100 million dollars (50 times the requested amount). Those people had almost a year to refund after that. They didn't.

As a backer, why would you want the $2 million pitch anyways? Presumably if you're funding a Chris Roberts game on Kickstarter you want to support his ambition and that includes shooting for the stars which he has always done. If you're too damn impatient to wait for the "finished product" even though the persistent universe exists and is far better than any of the competition then I have the perfect game for you, it's called Elite Dangerous and it sucks ass even after two expansions and seven years of post-launch updates.

“Rational”, that’s how you describe yourself? Roflmao.

It was never made “clear enough” in any shape or form, the “community voted for it” is an old and worn-out fantasy that you shills keep spinning as an attempt to justify feature creep and massive delays.

The reality is that only a very small part of the community voted in it, around 7%, and out of those 55% voted yes, and none of them actually had a clue what they were actually voting for, as there were no details attached on the: “Should we continue to offer stretch goals”.

Then on top of it, you have Chris Roberts, the man himself:

“Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.”

It does matter what ARMA is doing because it provides context for the competition and I'm not interested in discussing Star Citizen without context because that's fucking retarded.

It doesn’t matter because the point was about the logic you applied, it had nothing to do with Star Citizen itself. You don’t even know what you’re arguing against, you are just blabbling random shit from 101 shilling for dummies CiG manual hoping any of it sticks.

Everyone wants to compare Star Citizen's development timeline to generic AAA shit that takes half the development time but there's a reason those games take half the time, they're not doing anything particularly innovative or technically challenging meaning they get to rely on standard tools and they're not even remotely close to the scale of Star Citizen.

Straight from the book itself: "It's taking long cuz it's special, just like me!".

You don't have compare it to anything, you can completely forget about all that "generic AAA shit" completely.

The problem is not that Star Citizen is taking much longer than other video games, the problem is that Star Citizen is taking much longer than Chris Roberts said it would, multiple times.

On a side note, here is a fun picture that was being thrown around a lot back in the day by Star Citizen fans:

Speaking of other subjects where context matters. Pay2Win. That whole argument falls apart pretty quickly when you actually know a damn thing about the game but I've already responded to that on the last page.

First, it’s useful to know exactly what people mean by pay-2-win, as it’s not a hard defined term, for some it’s a matter if the content is paywalled or not, for others it’s as long as it gives advantage over those who don’t spend any money on it.

Secondly, “YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT!” isn’t only a wild speculation, but it also reeks of childish desperation.

Lastly, if you already responded that in the last page, why the fuck are you bringing it up again in such a random and retarded way?



I told you before, and I’ll tell you again.

You are bad at this. You can’t even comprehend what you are trying to argue against, the base points keep going over your head, and you are all over the place with your shit, I criticize your logic and you start ranting about fucking ARMA…to put it bluntly, you are one stupid ass mother fucker, and that’s fine, there is always use for you still, at least to people like Chris Roberts, just for fuck sake, stop talking, you are not just embarrassing yourself at this point.

 

[Perkel]

Why people keep iterating whole "people didn't sign on this when they backed game at $2mln !" , "it is not the game supposed to be"

There was no point aside from first few days of crowdfunding when game was supposed to be $2mil game. Streachgoals ended with $65mil not with $6mil of crowdfunding and not in 2012 but at the end of 2014. In those streatchgoals there were things that made them redo basically whole concept from ground up. Like plenetary landings, FPP part of game etc. Add to that that they are working on 2 AAA games one of which is MMO instead of one and you could easily see how long such development could take.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Why people keep iterating whole "people didn't sign on this when they backed game at $2mln !" , "it is not the game supposed to be"

There was no point aside from first few days of crowdfunding when game was supposed to be $2mil game. Streachgoals ended with $65mil not with $6mil of crowdfunding and not in 2012 but at the end of 2014. In those streatchgoals there were things that made them redo basically whole concept from ground up. Like plenetary landings, FPP part of game etc. Add to that that they are working on 2 AAA games one of which is MMO instead of one and you could easily see how long such development could take.

Working on two games? Why are you so sure they are actually working on SQ42? They have shown nothing of note that the game is anywhere close to being playable, much less released.

 

[Myobi]

Why people keep iterating whole "people didn't sign on this when they backed game at $2mln !" , "it is not the game supposed to be"

There was no point aside from first few days of crowdfunding when game was supposed to be $2mil game. Streachgoals ended with $65mil not with $6mil of crowdfunding and not in 2012 but at the end of 2014. In those streatchgoals there were things that made them redo basically whole concept from ground up. Like plenetary landings, FPP part of game etc.

You might be perfectly fine with it, but you didn't sign up for it, no one did.

"Perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later."

"The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period."

Thus why CiG have been throwing around release windows for years now, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2020... I've yet to see an instance where CiG stated or implied that those stretch goals would add years, or even decades of development time, or that it would result forsaking already promised features, by the contrary, as the above quote shows.

Meanwhile if we look at the Star Citizen community without Nightrider’s censorship:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen/comments

"I paid $100 for my single player story game 9 years ago. I should have bought drugs for a homeless guy instead."

"Here we are almost a decade after the kickstarter. 8 years since the project was supposed to be delivered. Still no singleplayer campaign."

"I'm supposed to get a little 3" model, a cool USB drive, and a whole bunch of goodies when the game is done. Should I be worried?"

"This game is now on its third U.S. presidency"

"So glad I got my money back years ago, before RSI changed their terms of service. I can't believe they're still swindling people out of their money 8 years later, and the "game" still doesn't have even a tiny fraction of what they promised in this campaign let alone all the"

They might be dumb for not getting refunds when they had the chance, or even for backing this shit in the first place, but that doesn’t excuse CiG misleading or bluntly bullshiting them, be it due incompetence or greed.

Add to that that they are working on 2 AAA games one of which is MMO instead of one and you could easily see how long such development could take.

Jfc, don't tell me you just bough an Idris as well...

That was their fucking choice my dude, if they struggle to make a single-player game, maybe they should have waited to finish it before starting on the MMO, or at least until they had the technology ready to make the fucking MMO work.

Fun fact, do you know what used to be the backers answer to: "Why didn't CiG finished S42 and used it and it's profits to develop Star Citizen?"

Because "Both games share the same assets and systems, therefore makes no difference/it's easier for them to develop them both at the same time."

Fastforward back to 2022, "Oh my god, try to understand! THEY ARE MAKING TWO GAMES AT SAME TIME!".

Go suck a bag of wieners.

 

[ADL]

You're supposed to side with them over the fact they're "still waiting" for Star Citizen to release.

Well I don't because Star Citizen is playable now and has been running as a live service, receiving substantial content updates every quarter for the last 4 years with the single system in the game delivering more content than the finished game they backed. If they wanted to play it that damn bad, log into the persistent universe and prepare to tolerate some bugs. Which is reasonable given that the game is completely unprecedented in scale.

Those people had many, many years to refund if they truly weren't happy with the direction of the game increasing exponentially in scope. The ironic thing is despite the years of whining about release dates and scope creep, even the ones who don't have money in this thing are gonna buy in and play the hell out of it. It's ridiculous and I hope they have the balls to keep the same usernames because I'd love to recognize some of these absolute tools and laugh in their face when it happens.

Imagine defending a game that was supposed to come out like ten years ago.

At this point its not a game anymore but a cult

You're absolutely delusional if you think the cult is on the pro-SC side of things. The people backing this shit are either playing it or sitting comfortably waiting and it's a couple hundred schizos, many of whom haven't spent a dollar on it, that have made their hate of a crowdfunded space game their defining personality trait leading some weird brigade against the game and are now outraged on my behalf as a backer. I'd rather be the person playing the game instead of watching some 25 part video essay about "sunk costs". Average pledge is $92 which generally includes two $60 games. $92 versus years of shitposting and consooming Scam Citizen videos by outrage merchants on YouTube? Who's really the one with sunk costs here?

The problem is not that Star Citizen is taking much longer than other video games, the problem is that Star Citizen is taking much longer than Chris Roberts said it would, multiple times.

On a side note, here is a fun picture that was being thrown around a lot back in the day by Star Citizen fans:

There are reasonable explanations for the delays. You've chosen to ignore those. Fundamentally though, when you're backing a creative work, shit happens. Movies, albums, television shows, books and other video games get delayed all the time so if you can't tolerate the fact that shit happens then you shouldn't be crowdfunding period. For example I backed SCORN which is a linear-as-fuck horror game back in late 2014. It's just releasing this year.

Even if the game took twenty years to make, that's pretty good when The Elder Scrolls Online, a by-the-numbers fantasy MMO took seven (and still released in a shoddy state taking another two years to fix itself so let's call it 9) and Star Citizen is easily 100x the game TESO is.... But that's just playing devil's advocate. It's not going to take twenty years. We'll have a minimum viable product that still dwarves every other game in existence in the next 3 years (13 years total).

Working on two games? Why are you so sure they are actually working on SQ42? They have shown nothing of note that the game is anywhere close to being playable, much less released.

Because CIG is leaky as fuck and you're talking about 700+ people to conspire together to cover for their boss.

In other news: A L I E N W E E K

 

[Perkel]

You might be perfectly fine with it, but you didn't sign up for it, no one did.

Like i said $2mil game was maybe for few days. Main crowdfunding ended up with $7mil which was for SQ42 AND SC. If someone wanted $2mil game instead of $7mil one they could remove their pledge before being charged.

Then after they got $7mil pledge and 30 days come to an end signaling end of crowdfunding campaign they asked pledgers if they should expand crowdfunding for further streatchgoals.

In vote 90% to 10% pledgers decided to continue streatchgoals. Campaign ended at the end of 2014, not at the end of 2012. Whole game CIG is creating now is literally what those stretchgoals were about. Planetary landings, human perspective instead of being ship, fps combat and so on.

So again. There are no people onboard who didn't sign up on this.

You can argue that CIG is late with what they promised but not that they are not doing what they promised.

Then there is whole other $460mil pledges after crowdfunding campaign that ended at the end of 2014. Those people have even less argument about not knowing what they signed up on.

Working on two games? Why are you so sure they are actually working on SQ42? They have shown nothing of note that the game is anywhere close to being playable, much less released.

Aside from multiple trailers, actors being hired and doing stuff, every ship in Star Citizen being leftover after SQ42 production, constant churn in their progress tracker with effectively 3/4 of it being dedicated to SQ42 exclusively with just 1/4 and some other teams sharing work between those two games ?

IT is clear at this point that as time went by they redid SQ42 design which naturally caused delays. It is still unclear how much time it will take for CIG to release it but they definitely do work on it. You don't hire and pay ~1000 people just to give them nothing to work on.

 

[Myobi]

There are reasonable explanations for the delays. You've chosen to ignore those. Fundamentally though, when you're backing a creative work, shit happens. Movies, albums, television shows, books and other video games get delayed all the time so if you can't tolerate the fact that shit happens then you shouldn't be crowdfunding period. For example I backed SCORN which is a linear-as-fuck horror game back in late 2014. It's just releasing this year.

Even if the game took twenty years to make, that's pretty good when The Elder Scrolls Online, a by-the-numbers fantasy MMO took seven (and still released in a shoddy state taking another two years to fix itself so let's call it 9) and Star Citizen is easily 100x the game TESO is.... But that's just playing devil's advocate. It's not going to take twenty years. We'll have a minimum viable product that still dwarves every other game in existence in the next 3 years (13 years total).

A ”reasonable explanation” :´)

My dude, crowdfunded isn’t a “ima fuck it up” free card, shit indeed happens, the problem is that they have been happening for over a decade with CiG, 2014! *profit profit profit* UPS, my bad, 2015! *hype hype, profit profit!* ah bummer, 2016 for sure! *profit profit* 17, maybe!...they more than earned the criticism, if it’s going to take as long as it takes, just say it from the get go, don’t go around hyping your community every year just to sell extra JPGs.

I’ll also repeat, it has been over a decade, you still don’t have the base technology that the game is relying on, you are still stuck in one unfinished solar system out of the one hundred promised, base features and systems still not in place… lol, “3 years”, good luck with that. By the time Star Citizen is done with the crowdfunded promised features, it will be already outdated by every other game being released, Unreal Engine 5 demos are a good indication of it.

So again. There are no people onboard who didn't sign up on this.


You can argue that CIG is late with what they promised but not that they are not doing what they promised.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitize..._two_official_cig_community_polls_related_to/

Q: What should we do with the crowdfunding counter after we reach our goal? (Total Votes: 21076 - 8% of Citizens, 12% of alpha backers)

1. 5% - Take the funds raised counter down after $23 million (mission achieved!)
2. 7% - Have the funding counter display the amount towards the current stretch goal / feature, not the total amount once we reach $23M.
3. 88% - Keep it up through development and continue to offer stretch goal rewards in addition to extra features and development milestones.

Q: Should we continue to offer stretch goals? (Total Votes: 34590 - 7% of Citizens, ~14% of alpha backers)

1. 55% - Yes
2. 26% - No
3. 20% - No preference

I’m not arguing that CiG is not trying to do what they promised.

I’m arguing that out of sheer incompetence or greed they mislead the community, by keeping the details and consequences of these strech goals from them while implying it would be very different.

 

[Kem0sabe]

You might be perfectly fine with it, but you didn't sign up for it, no one did.

Like i said $2mil game was maybe for few days. Main crowdfunding ended up with $7mil which was for SQ42 AND SC. If someone wanted $2mil game instead of $7mil one they could remove their pledge before being charged.

Then after they got $7mil pledge and 30 days come to an end signaling end of crowdfunding campaign they asked pledgers if they should expand crowdfunding for further streatchgoals.

In vote 90% to 10% pledgers decided to continue streatchgoals. Campaign ended at the end of 2014, not at the end of 2012. Whole game CIG is creating now is literally what those stretchgoals were about. Planetary landings, human perspective instead of being ship, fps combat and so on.

So again. There are no people onboard who didn't sign up on this.

You can argue that CIG is late with what they promised but not that they are not doing what they promised.

Then there is whole other $460mil pledges after crowdfunding campaign that ended at the end of 2014. Those people have even less argument about not knowing what they signed up on.

Working on two games? Why are you so sure they are actually working on SQ42? They have shown nothing of note that the game is anywhere close to being playable, much less released.

Aside from multiple trailers, actors being hired and doing stuff, every ship in Star Citizen being leftover after SQ42 production, constant churn in their progress tracker with effectively 3/4 of it being dedicated to SQ42 exclusively with just 1/4 and some other teams sharing work between those two games ?

IT is clear at this point that as time went by they redid SQ42 design which naturally caused delays. It is still unclear how much time it will take for CIG to release it but they definitely do work on it. You don't hire and pay ~1000 people just to give them nothing to work on.

Then why not show gameplay?

 

[Perkel]

Then why not show gameplay?

1 hour of gameplay from 2017.

 

[ADL]

My dude, crowdfunded isn’t a “ima fuck it up” free card

It isn't but do you really think what's been done here warrants hundreds of pages of complaints and shitposts about the delayed timeline? We're in a stage of complete impasse because it's gonna take the time it takes and it's not like we're sitting here with our dicks in our hands and nothing else. The persistent universe is live, vastly exceeding the scope of the project I originally backed and it's quite enjoyable. You can't throw money at complex problems and expect a faster result. Server meshing is the motherload of complex problems, delayed because iCache wasn't fast enough at scale requiring a new implementation for their database solution along with lockdowns and decreased productivity as a reality of remote gamedev. If it delivers, it will arguably be the greatest technical marvel in multiplayer gaming ever created.

Chris Roberts said in his letter that they're approximately six months away from putting it along with the second star system on Evocati and a public release to all backers within 12 months and they're even dropping their big CitizenCon showcase stream to hit that target. Isn't that exactly the kind of thing you want? I'll probably have hands-on access to it by March and we'll have leaks about it by January.

That's on top of the Gen12 renderer coming in 3.18 which is likely to double performance on top of the performance significantly increasing in 3.17. As a byproduct of increased client performance, the servers are running a lot better and the AI is breaking less so people are starting to see what I've been able to see with a lot less effort finding a "good server".

The game's making incredible strides and hitting their mark delivering more and more of what people were promised yet the sentiment here and everywhere else is exactly the same because people aren't paying attention or blatantly ignoring reality. That's what I take issue with.

By the time Star Citizen is done with the crowdfunded promised features, it will be already outdated by every other game being released, Unreal Engine 5 demos are a good indication of it.

Hence my rant about people ignoring scale.

Then why not show gameplay?

Star Citizen is Squadron 42's gameplay. They're practically conjoined by the hip. Do I wish Squadron 42 was out or that they were showcasing it's development a little more than they do? Sure but it's only been a couple months since Chris moved back to Manchester to get SQ42 into shape so I'll give them a little more leeway. As long as Star Citizen is delivering more and more of what was promised, SQ42 benefits by default.

Given what they've shown from Star Citizen being held back because they literally can't fit it into the game or they're waiting for other systems to come online before implementing it... I totally believe that they have a huge portion of the SQ42 chapters completed as stated on their progress tracker.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/progress-tracker/teams

That doesn't mean it's ready to show when gameplay systems are still being implemented and refined. Especially if that means a lackluster showcase. If they simply showed the environments, people would bitch about it not being "real gameplay" so they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Perhaps if people weren't such cunts about the game, they'd be able to show off a little more.

 

[justincz]

there is no damn squadron42 and there wont be, its clearly all a lie.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

We haven't seen SQ42 gameplay in 5 years.

5 years.

Makes you think.