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Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

Levenmouth

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Smells like despair, love it.
I still maintain that Starfield is a bigger danger to them than people here think.
I agree. Roberts is pretending that he’s building some kind of everything-game now, but let’s not forget that the games that got him his popularity are regular space games with less complexity than X and a flashy story, neither of which is what SC is trying to be.

If Bethesda produces another Skyrim instead of another FO4, a lot of less fanatical players will just be living out the space adventure they always dreamed of by modding futa dicks on their characters.
 
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Myobi

Liturgist
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Smells like despair, love it.
I still maintain that Starfield is a bigger danger to them than people here think.

I guess we will find out soon enough. Also:


FQvz25pPN3g699QzYIEjU9zGhKgdrsHss2qjJblnZ8c.jpg
 

Virgil Brummond

Educated
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Smells like despair, love it.
I still maintain that Starfield is a bigger danger to them than people here think.
I don't think Starfield will have all that big of an impact on SC. I could be wrong though, they definitely will implode at some point.

If there is one thing Roberts and CIG are a good at, it's selling fake shit to backers. They can always release a new $5K "128 player" battleship JPEG, a new $2K "explore the galaxy" JPEG, a $3K "JP Morgan of Space" industrialist JPEG and so on. The concept art and fake promo videos are cheap to make.

Then there is also a pivot towards asia (where from my understanding sketchy monetization is more accepted), land JPEG sales, condo JPEG sales, extra enhanced "insurance" sales, support drone JPEGs etc.

A large group of star citizen just don't give a fuck.

And at any rate, I wouldn't be surprised if Roberts, his family members and key associates have already reaped $100+ M from their "BDSSE" project, perhaps even more.
 

Perkel

Arcane
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Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,965
Smells like despair, love it.
I still maintain that Starfield is a bigger danger to them than people here think.
It won't even blip on SC radar. I think people don't understand that there are gamers and sim guys. They both play similar games but they are completely different from each other. From my experience SC basically whatever by chance or design gathered sim guys community. Which nicely explains why there are so many whales.

Paying huge $$$$ for flying aircraft is normal thing for flying sim community for about 30-40 years now and those guys used to pay like $10k for good simulator. Those guys don't play any other games so that community is pretty much entirely hidden from most of normal gamers and everyone else.
SC has wider appeal than just flying sim so this is where those two communities meet and one can't understand how can one spend more than 60$ for game.

IT also nicely explains why something like Elite failed compared to SC. Because in Elite they did something sim guys hate. Give every ships same exact cockpit and control scheme. That is like no-no in sim community. So Elite only got normal people who aren't interested in spending more than 60$ for one game.
 

Ebonsword

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Levenmouth

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SC has wider appeal than just flying sim so this is where those two communities meet and one can't understand how can one spend more than 60$ for game.
I think you are vastly overestimating the importance of the sim community. Train Simulator has a community, which buys fairly expensive trains, but they sure has hell don't have SC-level funding. DCS does not have SC-level funding and neither does ARMA.

The people who bought this are people who liked Roberts old games, which aren't sims by any stretch of the imagination. They're very casual space shooty games with a strong story and lots of cutscenes. His new game promised to be some kind of online flying shooty game with Luke Skywalker and the cockpit HUD by the guy who made the Ironman HUD. This does not scream turbo autist DCS pilot/ARMA operator community to me.

I am actually somewhat perplexed by where the funding for this game is evening coming from at this point. I'm not going to bet the farm on it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the funding actually is not there as was the case with Richard Garriot's game.
They allegedly raised $77m in 2022. That's a metric shit ton of money for a game that everyone bullies online.
 
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Myobi

Liturgist
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Messages
1,434
What are they simulating though, spaceships or a religious cult?
Simulating simulations, that is, as soon as Simulation Tech is in place, but sadly the roadmap for such tech still in development, it's just a couple more Idris away.

I am actually somewhat perplexed by where the funding for this game is evening coming from at this point.

Check out Star Citizen Refunds reddit, you have people there admitting to have spent thousands of dollars in this fucking thing.

Last one I stumbled on had recovered half of his 6,000$ "investment", those 25,000$ ranks exist for a reason, some people will just keep throwing ridiculous amounts of cash at those cunts.
 

Elthosian

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Messages
1,138
What are they simulating though, spaceships or a religious cult?
Simulating simulations, that is, as soon as Simulation Tech is in place, but sadly the roadmap for such tech still in development, it's just a couple more Idris away.

I am actually somewhat perplexed by where the funding for this game is evening coming from at this point.

Check out Star Citizen Refunds reddit, you have people there admitting to have spent thousands of dollars in this fucking thing.

Last one I stumbled on had recovered half of his 6,000$ "investment", those 25,000$ ranks exist for a reason, some people will just keep throwing ridiculous amounts of cash at those cunts.
????????????????

How do you end up recovering so little money from this game? It's laughably easy to get some dude dumber than you to buy your stuff at almost twice the price you paid for it. The bubble isn't even close to exploding.
 

Myobi

Liturgist
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Feb 26, 2016
Messages
1,434
????????????????

How do you end up recovering so little money from this game? It's laughably easy to get some dude dumber than you to buy your stuff at almost twice the price you paid for it. The bubble isn't even close to exploding.

Because people have been flooding the grey market with their accounts, resellers are even avoiding buying accounts and just started doing it by commission instead.
 

Elthosian

Arcane
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Messages
1,138
????????????????

How do you end up recovering so little money from this game? It's laughably easy to get some dude dumber than you to buy your stuff at almost twice the price you paid for it. The bubble isn't even close to exploding.

Because people have been flooding the grey market with their accounts, resellers are even avoiding buying accounts and just started doing it by commission instead.

Oof, Val the Moofia Boss and I chose a good moment to jump ship then. Blessed.
 

Perkel

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SC has wider appeal than just flying sim so this is where those two communities meet and one can't understand how can one spend more than 60$ for game.
I think you are vastly overestimating the importance of the sim community. Train Simulator has a community, which buys fairly expensive trains, but they sure has hell don't have SC-level funding. DCS does not have SC-level funding and neither does ARMA.

The people who bought this are people who liked Roberts old games, which aren't sims by any stretch of the imagination. They're very casual space shooty games with a strong story and lots of cutscenes. His new game promised to be some kind of online flying shooty game with Luke Skywalker and the cockpit HUD by the guy who made the Ironman HUD. This does not scream turbo autist DCS pilot/ARMA operator community to me.

I am actually somewhat perplexed by where the funding for this game is evening coming from at this point. I'm not going to bet the farm on it, but it wouldn't surprise me if the funding actually is not there as was the case with Richard Garriot's game.
They allegedly raised $77m in 2022. That's a metric shit ton of money for a game that everyone bullies online.

Nat all sim communities are the same. I personally come from racing sim community. There you just buy game like Assetto wheel and you are pretty much done. Assuming you don't go crazy you can easily join it by spending 500-600$ for decent gear. If you want top level gear that's $3k-$4k for wheel setup alone not counting PC and monitor setup (usually 3 screens).

Flying sim community is the one with huge $$$

here is for example F16:
https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/shop/modules/viper/

That is just one plane. And like I said it got a lot cheaper these days.

The people who bought this are people who liked Roberts old games, which aren't sims by any stretch of the imagination.

That might have been true early but definitely not now. SC does have cross of few communities but no community other than flying sim one can shell out big bucks for those ships. If you read most of those big bux posts on reddit they also play DCS and other flight sims and usually SC is the cheaper hobby.


some examples of flight sim guys:





some nice gear for them:



dude talking about his $$$ on gear:

 
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Levenmouth

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Flying sim community is the one with huge $$$
Yes, but it is also very small. DCS has ~1000 peak concurrent users. Same for Train Simulator. That's not $80m revenue per year user levels even if they do spend way more money than your average gamer.
Eagle Dynamics that develops DCS has 55 employees. Cloud Imperium has 1,100 employees plus third-party subcontractors. That's a bit over a half of the number of employees of Rockstar Games.

This is way beyond the sustainability levels of turbo autists who build $7k cockpits for their planes at home (last video) and Starfield is way closer to the original Roberts games than what SC seems to be.

Let's just do some basic math. Legatus package costs $40k. That means that it would take 2,000 turbo autists buying Legatus package in 2022 to generate SC's revenue. If we are very generous, maybe you can do that for 1, 2, 3 years, but eventually you will just run out of the very small cross-section of turbo autists who a.) like space games, b.) like sims of vehicles that don't even exists*, c.) like games that are in pre-pre-alpha, and lastly d.) have a spare $40k to spend on it.
You need normie money for that revenue.

* This is a big one btw, because if you've ever played a flight/tank/whatever sim, people are generally very dismissive of the inclusion of paper planes/tanks/whatever. Everything in SC is paper. Let's also be honest here, SC does not simulate shit. Orbital re-entry and aerodynamics are just magic in that game, as is probably the majority of other mechanics beyond having to apply thrusters to stop in space. That's literally the only thing it "simulates".
 
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Levenmouth

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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire
Concierge access was hilarious. It's literally "pay me to chat to my wife".
What's the tier to have my big, fat hand held?
MV5BMzkyY2U1NDAtZGYxNS00YmYyLWIxNWEtYTEyNDQ3ZjEwMzM2XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTI1MzI3NTAx._V1_UX214_CR0,0,214,317_AL_.jpg
 
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Flying sim community is the one with huge $$$
Yes, but it is also very small. DCS has ~1000 peak concurrent users. Same for Train Simulator. That's not $80m revenue per year user levels even if they do spend way more money than your average gamer.
Eagle Dynamics that develops DCS has 55 employees. Cloud Imperium has 1,100 employees plus third-party subcontractors. That's a bit over a half of the number of employees of Rockstar Games.

This is way beyond the sustainability levels of turbo autists who build $7k cockpits for their planes at home (last video) and Starfield is way closer to the original Roberts games than what SC seems to be.

Let's just do some basic math. Legatus package costs $40k. That means that it would take 2,000 turbo autists buying Legatus package in 2022 to generate SC's revenue. If we are very generous, maybe you can do that for 1, 2, 3 years, but eventually you will just run out of the very small cross-section of turbo autists who a.) like space games, b.) like sims of vehicles that don't even exists*, c.) like games that are in pre-pre-alpha, and lastly d.) have a spare $40k to spend on it.
You need normie money for that revenue.

* This is a big one btw, because if you've ever played a flight/tank/whatever sim, people are generally very dismissive of the inclusion of paper planes/tanks/whatever. Everything in SC is paper. Let's also be honest here, SC does not simulate shit. Orbital re-entry and aerodynamics are just magic in that game, as is probably the majority of other mechanics beyond having to apply thrusters to stop in space. That's literally the only thing it "simulates".
When you think about it, the flight sim community is a beacon of rationality and financial prudence compared to the madhouse that is SC. For a game like MSFS 2020 or DCS, a 80-100$ third party add-on is considered to be in the higher end of the price range. For this price, people will expect outstanding modelling and textures, highly advanced systems simulation down to the last little lever and button and a realistic custom flight model. Uncounted hours of research will be poured into the development of such a model. To master such a plane will provide hundreds of hours of playtime.

On the flip side, in SC, a $100 "investment" is just barely enough to get you started with baby's first entry-level ship. As you pointed out, people shell out hundreds and thousands of dollars for made up sci-fi ships with no physics or systems simulation to speak of, it's all just different flavours of that WW2 in space fantasy. And that's not even taking into account the fact that many of these ships exist merely as jpgs or that their intended purpose/features are not supported by the game world and the gameplay loops.
 
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Perkel

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When you think about it, the flight sim community is a beacon of rationality and financial prudence compared to the madhouse that is SC. For a game like MSFS 2020 or DCS, a 80-100$ third party add-on is considered to be in the higher end of the price range. For this price, people will expect outstanding modelling and textures, highly advanced systems simulation down to the last little lever and button and a realistic custom flight model. Uncounted hours of research will be poured into the development of such a model. To master such a plane will provide hundreds of hours of playtime.
Eh not really. IT is now what flight sims are in good place. Go back 10 years ago and yeah...

Moreover for everything SC is criticized for like lack of content flight sims are like 10 times this much. Like in MS flight sim you fly and land. And that is it. No gameplay at all. I had brief stint with flight sim like 15 years ago and you either like it that way or you don't like flight sims because they are all like that. And it is not exclusive to them either. Racing sims are a lot of drive alone sims rather than actual racing sims, iracing changed that but most of the time simmers are just driving alone with themselves. At least this is something i like. Flying airplane with no visible markers feels like swiming through ocean without a boat. Whole lot of nothing.

And flight sims were not really paramount pieces of software when it comes to being bug free. It is much much much much better now than it used to be.
 

deuxhero

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When you think about it, the flight sim community is a beacon of rationality and financial prudence compared to the madhouse that is SC. For a game like MSFS 2020 or DCS, a 80-100$ third party add-on is considered to be in the higher end of the price range. For this price, people will expect outstanding modelling and textures, highly advanced systems simulation down to the last little lever and button and a realistic custom flight model. Uncounted hours of research will be poured into the development of such a model. To master such a plane will provide hundreds of hours of playtime.
Like in MS flight sim you fly and land. And that is it. No gameplay at all. I had brief stint with flight sim like 15 years ago and you either like it that way or you don't like flight sims because they are all like that.
Depends on the game. Even those simulating civilian flight can offer challenges, like making a particular journey with limited fuel, acrobatics ("If you want to save your friends, solve my maze!"), barnstorming, or landing in areas not designed for landing. MSFS doesn't, but others do and it would be an entirely doable and welcome feature in MSFS.
 

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