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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

Silva

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Weird. I never used the Sabimaru really in all four endings I did. I used it once, found it insanely ineffective on whatever I used it on and just forgot about it afterwards.
This reminds me that Sekiro has a certain Megaman quality to it, in that some enemies are vulnerable to specific gadgets that once you find out you almost trivialize them ("Ah this Fire Mandril is vulnerable to Ice gun!"), and so part of the fun is experimenting until you find it.

The problem here (that didn't happen in Megaman) is that the currency for gadgets/prayer slips is limited, which, depending on each player mindset, may enact the opposite response of "whatever", followed by the use of sheer skill until a boss is defeated, while slips get hoarded and gadgets unused.
 
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The problem here (that didn't happen in Megaman) is that the currency for gadgets (prayer slips) is limited, which, depending on each player mindset and situation, may enact the opposite response of "whatever", followed by the use of sheer skill until a boss is defeated, while slips get hoarded and gadgets unused.

Hehehe that's me :)
 

Squid

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Joined
May 31, 2018
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Yeah I didn't use most of them. Kunai were very useful once you beat it into your head that it's amazing on aerial targets. Lady Butterfly becomes way more manageable when using them. Doesn't fully trivialize her but it makes the difficulty go down quite a bit if you can stay on top of knocking her out of the air.

Firecrackers were too easy to find their applicable use.

Finger Whistle was nice for areas with a lot of tough enemies that you didn't want to fight in a 4v1.

The Axe is straight up for breaking shields and I guess it'd do decent posture damage otherwise but it felt like a waste to me. Subaru felt like a waste to me because I didn't keep experimenting with it. Flame Vent felt really weak to me too. I also didn't really use the feather or leaf one either. The Spear was another axe scenario. Great for ripping off armor and a few other practical applications. Otherwise, didn't use it.

The Umbrella Hat things were good for when I knew what type of damage an enemy would be doing but I wasn't sure about the best way to play around it yet.

By my fourth cycle I only used Shuriken to knock enemies out of the air or spam on gun boys I didn't want to deal with behind a few sword boys.
 

Black Angel

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The problem here (that didn't happen in Megaman) is that the currency for gadgets/prayer slips is limited, which, depending on each player mindset, may enact the opposite response of "whatever", followed by the use of sheer skill until a boss is defeated, while slips get hoarded and gadgets unused.
And yet, if you've played for a while, you'll know that the Spirit Emblems, like the Quicksilver Bullets, aren't really that limited. And Fromsoft's were quite clear about the usage of each tools, while also hiding some of its usage.

Weird how when it comes to games like this, you'll usually requires cool, useful gadgets to be limited to some extent, less we get the spam complains all over again.
Flame Vent felt really weak to me too.
It trivializes the Red Eyes encounters, alongside the Fire-upgraded version of the other prosthetics. Other than the Chained Ogres, you can encounter more of these type of enemies if you do the side contents.

Also, Flame Vent and Fire-enhanced normal attacks you can do with the help of Living Force should be OP. If we apply the logic of still taking chip damage and Burning status buildup from perfectly deflecting Fire-based attacks with your katana, then enemies should still take vitality damage from deflecting your Living Force-Flame Vent attacks. The same when using the Projected Force with the Fire Umbrella.

I also didn't really use the feather or leaf one either.
The Feather can be used to completely remove the damage from performing Lightning Reversal. But I can see why people ignore this; the damage is negligible, there's literally only 2 instances where the Lightning Reversal is ever needed (the Divine Dragon doesn't count since you don't even take damage from performing it), and between paying 2 Spirit Emblems and taking a negligible amount of damage... yeah.

You can also do this:


The Spear was another axe scenario. Great for ripping off armor and a few other practical applications. Otherwise, didn't use it.
Have you tried using it against the Headless Ape?

The Umbrella Hat things were good for when I knew what type of damage an enemy would be doing but I wasn't sure about the best way to play around it yet.
When fighting Sword Saint and Owl (both Great Shinobi and Father), you'll notice they have an attack which, when deflected, would knock Sekiro back and make you briefly lose control for a bit (though brief enough to let you ready yourself for whatever's coming next). Perfectly deflecting them with the Umbrella prevents the knockback completely, and the Projected Force allows you to immediately counter attack with decent damage to posture (and even vitality if they didn't recover on time).

I've pretty much listed all these in my post above, but to further add to that and what Silva said that I quoted in this post: The main problem with Sekiro is content. There's not enough amount of enemy and not enough amount of different enemy type to give players a chance to really play around with the stuff they provided us with. The minibosses are not only duplicated as a more miniboss fights, some of them are even placed here and there as regular mobs. I guess this is the price they pay for clarity and more focused narrative, alongside with their mostly experimental gameplay iteration.
 
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I did a playthrough where I was using Flame Vent almost exclusively and I found it to be pretty useful. Both as AOE against multiple enemies or setting single tougher ones on fire. I don't think I've encountered an enemy that I couldn't set on fire, even without throwing oil on them beforehand. The axe is the one that's probably not that great on vanilla spirit emblem cap as it eats through them like crazy. With the mod I was using (+1 emblem cap per every prosthetic upgrade) axe was actually pretty damn strong because I would always end up with 40+ emblems by late game. I genuinely think that mod is the superior way to play this game, I hated the super low emblem cap from the start.
 

Squid

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Have you tried using it against the Headless Ape?
No. I mostly beat the game on NG with just the firecrackers and shuriken. Then in NG+ I used less firecrackers and same amount of shuriken. Then on NG++ and NG+++ I only used the shuriken.

When fighting Sword Saint and Owl (both Great Shinobi and Father), you'll notice they have an attack which, when deflected, would knock Sekiro back and make you briefly lose control for a bit (though brief enough to let you ready yourself for whatever's coming next). Perfectly deflecting them with the Umbrella prevents the knockback completely, and the Projected Force allows you to immediately counter attack with decent damage to posture (and even vitality if they didn't recover on time).
Hell, that'd been nice to know. I've literally done everything in the base game you can do though now. I think I play it well enough if I don't really need the prosthetics but damn that would have sped up my progress.
 

HeatEXTEND

Prophet
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he problem here (that didn't happen in Megaman) is that the currency for gadgets/prayer slips is limited,
This. My brain goes "Hey now, yeah you might be dead again and could use some of those fancy toys......but......those cost stuff.....and you only have like 300 of that stuff....you might need them later when it gets really really hard.....right?:hmmm:"
Maybe it should work like flasks/gourds.
 
Joined
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The cap is what gave me problems, hence me using the mod. Buying up a huge amount of emblems I never had a problem with. In every playthrough I'd end up with close to max capacity in storage.
 

Squid

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I didn't have a problem with being stuck at 999 emblems ever. It only ever dropped to 950 and then later on, I only used them for the Shuriken anyway. Maybe one or two firecracker pops on the bull boss because that fucker annoys me. With maxed skills you can have like 20 or so of them on you at a time. I feel like 999 is not a bad cap. I had over a hundred of normal and light coin purses and a good amount of the heavy ones too. After NG, you should be well off, after/during NG+ you shouldn't even be concerned.
 

Black Angel

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I didn't have a problem with being stuck at 999 emblems ever. It only ever dropped to 950 and then later on, I only used them for the Shuriken anyway. Maybe one or two firecracker pops on the bull boss because that fucker annoys me. With maxed skills you can have like 20 or so of them on you at a time. I feel like 999 is not a bad cap. I had over a hundred of normal and light coin purses and a good amount of the heavy ones too. After NG, you should be well off, after/during NG+ you shouldn't even be concerned.
He didn't meant the 999 storage cap, he meant the 20 active inventory cap is the problem. This is also related to what Silva said before.
 

Squid

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Ah okay. Yeah I felt like 20 was fine for awhile but there were times I felt like 5-10 more could have been decent. Definitely don't want it uncapped as you could just learn to evade shit and every opening just Mortal Blade art. If you're going to Mortal Blade art, it ought to come with a consequence.
 
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It's not like it's unplayable with vanilla emblem cap, I just found it quite boring. You have these prosthetics/ninjutsus/combat arts that eat spirit emblems like crazy and yet you are only allowed to increase emblem cap by 5 from initial 15? Fuck that. At the very least every skill that increases emblem cap should have increased it by 3, not 1. Try a playthrough with this and tell me it's not a more enjoyable way to play.
 

Black Angel

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Personally, I think the 20 cap active max + additional 15 (spread into 3 5s with the Tanto) is enough, when you're going up against a bossfight or going through a level. But it's indeed not enough for when you want to experiment with different combination against a specific encounter, especially since you have actual pause now and can change your prosthetic-combat art-ninjutsu on the fly. They should've up it a bit more, hell I'm happy if the already existing 5 instances of cap increase provides +2 Spirit Emblems cap each, instead of the current +1 each.
 

Silva

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The main problem with Sekiro is content. There's not enough amount of enemy and not enough amount of different enemy type to give players a chance to really play around with the stuff they provided us with. The minibosses are not only duplicated as a more miniboss fights, some of them are even placed here and there as regular mobs. I guess this is the price they pay for clarity and more focused narrative, alongside with their mostly experimental gameplay iteration.
Makes sense. This and Multidirectional idea of raising the cap of praying slips, would make the gadgets more interesting to use and form playstyles around, instead of the quasi-gimmicks they are now.


P.S: it's crazy that we're discussing a problem that would be crippling in similar games, but is just a nuisance here. Says a lot about how good the game is.
 
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P.S: it's crazy that we're discussing a problem that would be crippling in similar games, but is just a nuisance here. Says a lot about how good the game is.

Tools are just a side mechanic in Sekiro, if there were similar problems with swordfighting, they would cripple the game.
 

NJClaw

OoOoOoOoOoh
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Pronouns: rusts/rusty
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
An increased spirit emblem cap would make many boss fights a joke due to how strong tools can be in the right situation. 40-50 emblems would completely ruin bosses like Guardian Ape, Corrupted Monk, Owl, Demon of Hatred, and Isshin.
 

Squid

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An increased spirit emblem cap would make many boss fights a joke due to how strong tools can be in the right situation. 40-50 emblems would completely ruin bosses like Guardian Ape, Corrupted Monk, Owl, Demon of Hatred, and Isshin.
That's why my initial reaction to increasing the cap on them was "maybe not" or just by a little bit. Like I was saying, the Mortal Blade art does a fuck ton of damage regardless whether the enemy is alive or an undead centipede parasite host. That alone would be busted to have a few more full power hits from.


P.S: it's crazy that we're discussing a problem that would be crippling in similar games, but is just a nuisance here. Says a lot about how good the game is.

Tools are just a side mechanic in Sekiro, if there were similar problems with swordfighting, they would cripple the game.
Absolutely and From was smart to focus their attention on what was necessary to the main gameplay instead of making the tools absolutely necessary. The tools are assistance in my eyes. Rarely needed. I really only think the Axe is 100% justified as necessary. Even Shuriken are just to help you combat aerial enemies but would be my second choice for needed tools. Shield enemies are too slow to do anything and too hard to break through without the Axe. It's not like it'd be actually difficult but it'd just throw in some annoyingly slow fights for generic enemies into the game. Not a great idea in my opinion.
 

cvv

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Codex+ Now Streaming!
Anyone here following closely the mod scene? Any good overhaul mods? I'd love someone to take another pass at the tools, make them more integral, more substantial.
 

Black Angel

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Anyone here following closely the mod scene? Any good overhaul mods? I'd love someone to take another pass at the tools, make them more integral, more substantial.
I only watched a handful of Sekiro-mod related videos from time to time, but the channel I linked in the previous page among many others (like ONGBAL) often showcase a bossfight from the mods. The most popular ones (or at least, the ones which I encountered the most on my feed) are Resurrection and Long May the Shadow Reflect. The general consensus seems to be that the former is more 'balanced' in line with the original design, while the latter is (unfortunately) full of spam attacks, which would most likely exacerbate all the 'spam L1' complains.

Personally, I think all the overhaul mods I've witnessed ends up with enemies spamming the exact same moves which can be encountered with L1 spams, which speaks volume to Fromsoft's competence in designing the game tightly so it doesn't become a clickfest (like so many who couldn't quite master the system as they've done with Soulsborne complained), but just comparing the Sword Saint fight between Resurrection and LMTSR, yeah, the former seems more 'balanced' and 'restrained', thus in line with the original designs, while the latter is full of spams (unfortunately).
 

Silentstorm

Learned
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Apr 29, 2019
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Whose least favorite boss or mini-boss of this game is yours?

Mine is Armored Warrior, not for being tough, he's pretty easy to parry but because unlike most bosses with a gimmick and clear strategy, i just have a hard time actually kicking him down the bridge, i swear the Wolf kicks the guy around 10 times and he always stumbles to anything but outside or my character seems to aim at every damn side but the one with a hole, for some reason i just have issue with this to a point where it became more annoying just seeing the guy step backwards than actually fighting him.
 

Squid

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May 31, 2018
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The Flaming Bull. I didn't understand how to beat him for a long time. I beat him first try once of my four playthroughs. I beat him second try on two of them. Initial playthrough it might have taken me 3-5 times. I just don't get what to do besides sprint around like a madman and wait to stab randomly or just spam firecrackers to make it freak out. Best method really is just waiting for an opening to do enough damage to make the boss go into a state of vulnerability (kinda how the Headless Ape does if you parry correctly). Just find the fight more annoying than anything.

I also hated the Corrupted Monk fight. Just always annoys me but I can beat it in one try on a playthrough but I get close to dying because I'm too impatient and if I use ash/crackers to stun to get free hits I always get too greedy. Also I hate bosses that have a ton of mobs hanging out around them and are tedious to clear for a decent 1v1. I don't want to fight Snake Eyes in a pool of poison with 3 other dudes with shotguns/rifles also attacking me. No thanks.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
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Apr 29, 2019
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Ahh, I know that fight, I beat the Snake Eyes on the snow with Sebimaru, the one on the poison lake, I just put other music, stayed in a corner and saw how she stood in a poison lake trying to find a way to shoot me, she is resistant to poison, but after a long while she gets weak enough you can just jump and kill her with one blow.

Cheap as hell and boring way to win...but I didn't regret it.
 

Squid

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Yeah I discovered that at one point too but didn't have the patience to wait for that. I beat it four times though. I don't mind the snow mountain one because it doesn't have allies constantly shooting at you, just one your way to the fighting area (and a specific area they can see you from but it's not bad)
 

Silentstorm

Learned
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Apr 29, 2019
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885
Question, do they ever explain in-universe why Idols just stop working, i know why in gameplay terms, the areas got harder and you have to travel back, but they are all done by the Sculptor and even before he turns into a demon there is a point where the Idols at the castle stop working, then both the outskirts and the castle by the end.

I guess it's just one of those things that aren't part of the plot and the Wolf never teleports maybe, but it just made me wonder if the Ministry just has teleporting cancelling stuff that we never see.
 

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