Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice (new From Software game)

[agentorange]

just play ninja gaiden black its better

 

[cvv]

Anyway, Multidirectional has finally given me what I need. Bonfires everywhere, level design phoned in to what's basically a funnel to the next boss in the boss rush--exactly what I would have expected from From after DS3.

Yes, level design is way closer to DS3 than previous FS games - i.e. way less devious, imaginative, sophisticated, enjoyable.

But it's also way less of a problem in Sekiro than in DS3 due to dramatically increased mobility and verticality. Hard to explain, you'd have to play it to understand. It just subliminally shifts the focus from exploration to combat and you don't really mind since the combat is excellent. And there are still enough side paths and surprising branches to explore.

The real problem of Sekiro isn't really exploration or level design, it's the fact they couldn't decide whether to make a streamlined action game like Tenchu or a full-blown RPG. They got stuck somewhere in the middle which affects stuff like the skills and tools - most of them feel superfluous and so does itemization, since a big chunk of the items you find are upgrade mats for tools you rarely need or use. Also the NPC quests are underwhelming and quest rewards offensive. Also some bosses are very, very hard and there's no help from sunbros or NPCs. If you're just an average or somewhat above average Souls player they'll frustrate you to the point that finally beating them after 6+ hours doesn't bring orgasmic relief and sense of achievement but merely weariness and bitter taste in your mouth.

Apart from that the game is definitely worth playing, MUCH more so than DS3.

 

[Lambach]

I started doing those Gauntlet challenges that were added to the game as part of the free update.

Holy fucking shit, Inner Genichiro is insane. Spent 4 solid hours trying to beat him yesterday, the closest I got was halfway through his health bar during the Way of Tomoe phase. Motherfucker can reverse your own lightning reversal. He's also far more aggressive compared to his usual self, his moveset has been improved so that he can hunt you down across the entire arena leaving you almost no room to heal, even perfect Deflects still wipe out your Posture bar very quickly etc.

Neither Ishin nor Father Owl nor Demon of Hatred have anything on him, just a couple of AI tweaks and a slightly modified moveset were enough to turn this guy into by far the most difficult boss fight in the game so far. God help me if I ever unlock Inner Father Owl or Inner Ishin.

 

[Lambach]

My relationship with this fucking game can only be described as masochistic. I fought Inner Genichiro enough times to commit every single move of his to muscle memory and I managed to beat the cocksucker. I hated every minute of the entire experience and never wanted to do anything similar ever again.

But here I am now, doing Gauntlet of Strength: Severance and getting my ass annihilated by Inner Isshin who makes Inner Genichiro look like a little bitch in comparison. I hate this fucking game so much, why do I keep playing it?

 

[Great Deceiver]

The real problem of Sekiro isn't really exploration or level design, it's the fact they couldn't decide whether to make a streamlined action game like Tenchu or a full-blown RPG. They got stuck somewhere in the middle which affects stuff like the skills and tools - most of them feel superfluous and so does itemization, since a big chunk of the items you find are upgrade mats for tools you rarely need or use. Also the NPC quests are underwhelming and quest rewards offensive. Also some bosses are very, very hard and there's no help from sunbros or NPCs. If you're just an average or somewhat above average Souls player they'll frustrate you to the point that finally beating them after 6+ hours doesn't bring orgasmic relief and sense of achievement but merely weariness and bitter taste in your mouth.

Your points about superfluous itemization ("tools you rarely need or use") and the perceived extreme difficulty of some bosses are related. Some tools make some of the hardest bosses in the game much easier. The game just doesn't spell it out for you (and perhaps they should have done a better job of incentivizing players to use them), but the tools are there and they reward experimentation. I agree that most people will just try to bruteforce their way with the sword only, but it's very rewarding to explore the prosthetics and they're much more powerful than the average player thinks.

 

[cvv]

I agree that most people will just try to bruteforce their way with the sword only, but it's very rewarding to explore the prosthetics and they're much more powerful than the average player thinks.

Ok yes and no. In the hands of good players tools do make some fights easier but good players doesn't really need them in the first place. Plus they're effectively consumables since you need emblems to use them and those are limited. If you're just an average schmuck like me you'll blow through your stash p. fast and then you have to grind a lot. Happened to me my 1st run on the bull, I was throwing crackers at the fucker and just when I was getting the hang of it I ran out. And farming options before the bull are very limited, with meagre yields.

So yeah, tools work but they also need solid skillz to use and if you don't have those you're fucked anyway.

 

[Black Angel]

My relationship with this fucking game can only be described as masochistic. I fought Inner Genichiro enough times to commit every single move of his to muscle memory and I managed to beat the cocksucker. I hated every minute of the entire experience and never wanted to do anything similar ever again.

But here I am now, doing Gauntlet of Strength: Severance and getting my ass annihilated by Inner Isshin who makes Inner Genichiro look like a little bitch in comparison. I hate this fucking game so much, why do I keep playing it?

Oh yeah, you just love getting no-lube buttsegs, don't you, eh? You filthy slut

 

[Talby]

I decided to give Sekiro another chance after beating Elden Ring. Genichiro and Guardian Ape are down and I fought some monkey guys. Continuing to press forward.

Spoiler

The fake-out victory with the headless ape coming back to life was great, a real "oh shit!" moment. The clue was no achievement pop-up. I will not be caught off guard again by any ape.

 

[Ivan]

If youve made it this far, I'm sure the game has its hooks in you already. Hope you enjoy the finale! Remember to not add extra difficulty if you don't crave it (bell/charmless)

And yep, that Ape moment will forever be in my top 3 FromSoft moments ever. I smiled and laughed so damn hard at that.

 

[cvv]

So after finishing Elden Ring I booted up Sekiro again, as a palate cleanser, and two thoughts have been stuck in my head for the entire playthrough:

- Godfuckingdammit I'm having a blast. I loved Elden Ring but this game is twice as much fun. Too bad it's so short.
- Holy shit how is everything so easy all of the sudden? I needed a couple of runs on the Ogre and Butterfly to unrust myself but then everything went down in one or two tries. On my first playthrough a 30-attempt run was no rarity but now I'm absolutely destroying everything. Even Owl Father went down in three tries and that's supposedly the hardest fight in the game. Haven't fought Demon and Isshin yet.

Was the gap in difficulty between your first and subsequent playthrough that gigantic for you as well?

 

[Cyberarmy]

This is called "Getting gud" congratulations!

 

[NJClaw]

Was the gap in difficulty between your first and subsequent playthrough that gigantic for you as well?

Absolutely yes. During my first playthrough, Lady Butterfly, the Guardian Ape, Demon of Hatred and Isshin were such a roadblock that I had to take pauses between tries to avoid having a mental breakdown. In the end, Isshin broke me to the point that I had to cheese his third phase by avoiding all of his attacks running around like a fool and only retaliating after the big jump that ends with a spear thrust. But that's nothing compared to what the Guardian Ape did to me. I tried his first phase so many times that when he got up for the second one I was paralyzed in fear. I don't deal with failure very well, and dying over and over against a monkey that throws shit at you made me so mad that my girlfriend still has PTSD from me playing Sekiro. The moment Elden Ring came out, the first thing she asked me was to tell her when I was going to face "the monkey" so that she could go to another room.

I immediately started NG+, and I barely ever died. On the next run, I only died once or twice to Isshin, the Demon of Hatred, and Owl Father.

 

[Multidirectional]

Was the gap in difficulty between your first and subsequent playthrough that gigantic for you as well?

It's part of what made me love it. First run: "wtf this is impossible, this is 100 times harder than Souls!", then on a fresh non ng+ run after finishing it once I'm flying through the game and suddenly it's actually easier than Souls.
Everybody who finishes Sekiro should start another completely fresh run just to fully understand how gud they got.

 

[cvv]

So Owl Father went down on the 3rd try and Isshin on the 5th.

I'm become a speedrunner, destroyer of gaymz.

(Actually I needed like 15 runs on the stupid Demon again, I hate this fucking fight, no matter how gud I git it never goes smoothly).

 

[Talby]

Maybe I got lucky, but Butterfly went down pretty easy on my first try. Her tells seem fairly predictable and she doesn't get aggressive if you try to heal/buff.

 

[cvv]

Maybe I got lucky, but Butterfly went down pretty easy on my first try. Her tells seem fairly predictable and she doesn't get aggressive if you try to heal/buff.

Butterfly, just like most bosses, is trivial once you figure out her schtick - her posture goes down super slowly so all you need to do is hit her like 5 times or so and then just keep deflecting. She'll p. much kill herself.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Was the gap in difficulty between your first and subsequent playthrough that gigantic for you as well?

Obligatory:

 

[Matador]

The simple fact that you can punish enemy over-agression make this game fights funnier and better designed than the ones in Elden Ring.

I don't care that you can beat them easily with cheesy summons,whatever broken weapon art or having studied them to the point of have losing your wife and work in real life, that's no fun.

This game can be beaten learning fundamentals, putting effort to understand mechanics and enemies and using your basic maneuvers and shurikens

 

[Villagkouras]

Like many people I see here, I had a big urge to revisit Sekiro after Elden Ring. I played it when it was out, one playthrough and never again, so I don't remember a lot of things.

I do remember having a very difficult time when starting and relying too much on killing an enemy and then sprinting away. This isn't the case anymore, now I face the opponents straight and kill them easily. A mini boss that gave me a lot of trouble back then, before the Horse-guy, went down first try. Probably because jumping is now in my muscle memory due to ER while when Sekiro was out it was a new concept and I couldn't decide which button to press in a split second. I also play very aggressively, while back then I treated the game as Dark Souls, waiting for an opening.

Horse dude died easily as well. Granted I'm still very early, but I'm having much more fun than my initial playthrough and I feel I'm playing this, at last, properly.

 

[Silva]

This game can be beaten learning fundamentals, putting effort to understand mechanics and enemies and using your basic maneuvers and shurikens

This 100%.

While both ER and SKR have its share of gimmicks, here there's this solid layer of fundamentals that dictates player and enemies interaction, and that feels good mastering. The gimmicks are just icing on the cake.

While in ER the game teaches you fundamentals only to forget about it seconds later and become a game-breaking gimmicks fest that obviate those very fundamentals. Like a karate sensei who teaches you katá and kumite in first class, to then pull a gun and shoot you in the chest. It's Buffalo Bill Karate Dojo.

 

[Villagkouras]

Drunkard and Lady Butterfly died like bitches, first try. Compared to 10-15 tries 3 years ago. WTF? Is Sekiro... easy?

Joking aside, it feels good when bosses' attacks make sense and I heal in boss fights and there is no input reading. I'm back to "yeah, a boss" than "shit, a boss" compared to ER.

Let's see how the next From game will make us appreciate ER bosses.

 

[Wunderbar]

Drunkard

you probably had a lot of practice fighting clones of Drunkard in Leyndell sewers.

 

[cvv]

there is no input reading.

Oh there is, quite a bit of it. But somehow it feels less cheesy and way more fun.

Old Isshin sidestepping or Owl adjusting his Ichimonji to your movement always cracks me up, even while they keep smacking me like a dog.

 

[Lyric Suite]

So i just bought this shit lul.

Doesn't seem the price will ever go lower than 50% off so fuck it.

Can't play it though 'cause i'm still stuck in ER see you guys in a few months lel.

 

[Matador]

So i just bought this shit lul.

Doesn't seem the price will ever go lower than 50% off so fuck it.

Can't play it though 'cause i'm still stuck in ER see you guys in a few months lel.

Just quit Elden Ring and play the better and funnier game.