Settings and their lack of differentiation

[Hegel]

A game set in Wayne Barlowe's inferno.

 

[DavidBVal]

The greatest fantasy writer of all time, George R.R. Martin,

How can you write such a sensible post, and then just say... that. Unless you mean by rape count/character count/body count or actual physical "greatness" of the author.

On topic: It's already been said by Infinitron. Fantasy is the easiest way to put into motion a mechanics which is proved to work. It's the safe bet. However, a distinction must be made: this was not always the case in the PnP world. Starting in the 80s and then very visibly in the 90s, we witnessed an explosion of settng variety for PnP games in very original settings. Starting with Call of Cthuluh, Cyberpunk 2020, Gamma World, Star Wars (man, that was fun), and then more mainstream with World of Darkness games. We even saw superhero games or Vietnam war games.

But this variety didn't follow into CRPGs. there were of course games released in non-fantasy settings, but fantasy remained dominant because in a CRPG there's tons of combat, action, dungeon exploration and dice rolls, and usually need going back to the "safe place where hours upon hours of combat feels good". And even story-centered games like PS:T have literally hundreds of fights, so this is not an easy to avoid problem.

Actually, nevermind, delete the whole thread because of false premise: Might and Magic and Wizardry series are actually Sci-Fi.

 

[Mustawd]

Actually, nevermind, delete the whole thread because of false premise: Might and Magic and Wizardry series are actually Sci-Fi.

Don't forget Ultima

 

[mondblut]

If PRGs were realistic simulation of medieval skirmishes they'd suck as well.

Absolutely. That's why fireballs, cloudkills, dragons and vampires come to the rescue. This shit adds an entire third dimension to the boring and repetetive activity of swinging a stick at another guy with a stick (in turn-based mode with menu-driven controls, yay). If not for them, the genre would never have gained momentum to begin with, because gameplay consisting of "I order my guy with a stick to swing it at that guy with a stick" remains entertaining for about 2.5 minutes.

So all the remarks about how dynamite would suck in real life aren't really useful in this discussion.

Well, either it's going to be a hollywood grenade (which is fine), or not adding anything worthwile to gameplay, and that's all that matters (in b4 "but muh intrigwe! muh humoon interakshun!!1", lol). Did you use explosive sticks much in JA2 while we're there? Particularly as throwables? Outside of exploits such as mining the entry area when about to be attacked, not bloody likely, because the enemies are never there when it's about to go boom.

Just because something is not real doesn't mean it's fantasy. Horror and science fiction also exist.

Horror is filed under (urban) fantasy nowadays, and scifi is fantasy with technobabble explanation (he is using a device to create these balls of fire, and alien-enhanced metabolism to heal his wounds!11). So you're gonna to have evil spirits in addition to mooks with revolvers, shamanic magic to drive those spirits away and whatnot... sounds fantasy enough to me.

 

[hivemind]

This shit adds an entire third dimension to the boring and repetetive activity of swinging a stick at another guy with a stick (in turn-based mode with menu-driven controls, yay). If not for them, the genre would never have gained momentum to begin with, because gameplay consisting of "I order my guy with a stick to swing it at that guy with a stick" remains entertaining for about 2.5 minutes.

AoD has better turn based combat than most(if not all) of the fantasy cRPGs that I have played and the combat is nothing more than guys swinging at each other with different kinds of sticks.

 

[mondblut]

AoD has better turn based combat than most(if not all) of the fantasy cRPGs that I have played and the combat is nothing more than guys swinging at each other with different kinds of sticks.

Nigga, please. You must have played none then. If the first public demo is anything to judge AoD by, even Arroyo in F2 provides more exciting gameplay.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

I would like an RPG where you play a mantis-man knight riding a rhinobeetle on a crusade against the locust hordes.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Absolutely. That's why fireballs, cloudkills, dragons and vampires come to the rescue. This shit adds an entire third dimension to the boring and repetetive activity of swinging a stick at another guy with a stick (in turn-based mode with menu-driven controls, yay). If not for them, the genre would never have gained momentum to begin with, because gameplay consisting of "I order my guy with a stick to swing it at that guy with a stick" remains entertaining for about 2.5 minutes.

Yes they add a bit but it's not the only creative thing that can be done in an RPG. Dealdands for example has all the weird shit but it's still a fun western fused with horror. Shin Megami Tensei literally has fireballs and dragons but is as far from your standard fantasy RPG as it can be. Wanting to have all the toys doesn't limit you to one setting.

Well, either it's going to be a hollywood grenade (which is fine), or not adding anything worthwile to gameplay, and that's all that matters (in b4 "but muh intrigwe! muh humoon interakshun!!1", lol). Did you use explosive sticks much in JA2 while we're there? Particularly as throwables? Outside of exploits such as mining the entry area when about to be attacked, not bloody likely, because the enemies are never there when it's about to go boom.

I didn't use explosives in JA because they were shit. Everything in the game save for really long range riffles, mortars and rocket lounchers was shit. This is where Western can shine. Since your average gunslinger doesn't really shoot from that far away dynamite is much more of a hussle. Wooden buildings prone to fire make it even more interesting. Also sneaking which was really underused in JA. Every real combat type can be made interesting if the designer is good. Live a live is a great example. The game has bunchloads of different setting but the combat is good in all of them. Yeah, there is a non-supernatural western. It's fun.

Horror is filed under (urban) fantasy nowadays, and scifi is fantasy with technobabble explanation (he is using a device to create these balls of fire, and alien-enhanced metabolism to heal his wounds!11). So you're gonna to have evil spirits in addition to mooks with revolvers, shamanic magic to drive those spirits away and whatnot... sounds fantasy enough to me.

Whatever it's technically fantasy or not is a bit meaningless. A different setting is a different setting even if you can say that it's technically still a fantasy because demons are magic. If I understood OP correctly it's more about trying something different than your standard Tolkienesque adventure than about eradicating all magic from the game. I for one would be happy even with another Darksun game.

 

[CyberWhale]

TL;DR version of this thread - the fault for having shitty fantasy settings in RPGs doesn't fall on incapable developers but rather on autistic nerds (with crap taste) who represent the majority of their customers/audiance.

 

[naossano]

Historical eras and civilizations are numerous in our own worl.
Aztecs, Conquistadors, muslims empires, ancient rome, medieval japan, cold war, industrial revolution, people revolution, pirates, colonization, rebelling from the colonization etc... are just a few example amongs many.

Then you have modern world, science fiction, space opera, anticipation, dystopia, etc...

 

[Mustawd]

Whatever it's technically fantasy or not is a bit meaningless. A different setting is a different setting even if you can say that it's technically still a fantasy because demons are magic. If I understood OP correctly it's more about trying something different than your standard Tolkienesque adventure than about eradicating all magic from the game. I for one would be happy even with another Darksun game.

The sad part is that there are a ton of alternatives out there for unique and interesting fantasy settings. And they still can retain some of the same familiar things we associate fantasy with (wizrds, magic, etc.). But I for one am tired of seeing the same Warhammer Fantasy/WOW/etc. dwarf with the same armor same weapons same look etc.

Take Sean Murray's Gateway: Book of Wizards art book. It has a ton of interesting but familiar feeling ideas on fantasy, and it's just one example. Hell, some if it's some really weird stuff. But it's more interesting than your typical tropes over and over.

EDIT: Don't ask me about his thing with fishes. He apparently really likes them or something...

 

[Keldryn]

A modern day, "urban fantasy" setting could make for an interesting CRPG. There is a hidden world that exists just around the corner or just behind that old house on the hill -- but most people just can't see it. Obviously the main PC would become one such individual who can see and interact with this other world.

 

[Neckbeard Shitlord]

I didn't use explosives in JA because they were shit. Everything in the game save for really long range riffles, mortars and rocket lounchers was shit. This is where Western can shine. Since your average gunslinger doesn't really shoot from that far away dynamite is much more of a hussle.

Looks like you did not play the game very well. The game (and tactics in general) is about maneuvering. Pistols are actually much better and much more fun, if you are doing them right. For one thing silencers, and another close up headshots are devastating. However you have to move into range and use cover to get them to work - who'd have thunk?

If you sit there slugging it out at long range you are winning ugly, and you can only successfully do that after grinding a long time to get high stats and good equipment.

 

[hivemind]

A modern day, "urban fantasy" setting could make for an interesting CRPG. There is a hidden world that exists just around the corner or just behind that old house on the hill -- but most people just can't see it. Obviously the main PC would become one such individual who can see and interact with this other world.

so almost any World of Darkness setting made into an RPG

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Looks like you did not play the game very well. The game (and tactics in general) is about maneuvering. Pistols are actually much better and much more fun, if you are doing them right. For one thing silencers, and another close up headshots are devastating. However you have to move into range and use cover to get them to work - who'd have thunk?

If you sit there slugging it out at long range you are winning ugly, and you can only successfully do that after grinding a long time to get high stats and good equipment.

I might've played the game wrong, it's possible but I just did what worked. I don't think it is actually possible to grind in the game for stats and equipment. Stats rise incredibly slowly, and equipment seemed to be tied to your progress in game with no way of getting good guns without capturing a few cities.

 

[V_K]

I would like an RPG where you play a mantis-man knight riding a rhinobeetle on a crusade against the locust hordes.

A game like this should definitely have romances in it.

 

[Keldryn]

so almost any World of Darkness setting made into an RPG

I don't recall saying anything about a setting focused on pretentious emo shit.

 

[Trash]

One of the appeal of rpg's is playing a, well, role in a different world than the mundane one we live in. That's more so for pnp than for crpg's but the idea still counts. Still, can't say we haven't seen a lot of different settings in crpg's. Modern day vampires, immortal amnesiacs, postapocalyptic wastelands, 19th century martian explorers, 80's neon cyberpunk meets orcs and elves and Slav mythology mutant monster slayer are just some that spring to mind.

Still, the more diversity the better. Stagnation is, afterall, death in any genre of fiction.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Notice that there is no a single western high school RPG. IF ONLY THERE WAS A DEV WILLING TO CHANGE THAT.

 

[Gord]

I would like an RPG where you play a mantis-man knight riding a rhinobeetle on a crusade against the locust hordes.

Close enough...

 

[Mustawd]

Notice that there is no a single western high school RPG. IF ONLY THERE WAS A DEV WILLING TO CHANGE THAT.

Close enough.

 

[V_K]

Or this one:

 

[Telengard]

There have been several attempts to bring some creativity in, in the past.

Ringworld (this is before HALO) was a Larry Niven thing, which had several semi- successful Adventure games and a non-successful pnp RPG attached to it. There were a couple of attempts to make a crpg out of it, but all failed for the usual reasons.

Twilight 2000 was a pnp warzone RPG that was hacked made into a non-successful crpg of the same name.

Skyrealms of Jorune was a marginal failure of a pnp RPG that was brought over into a hybrid crpg titled Alien Logic.

And the above is going outside of the usual contenders of Darklands, Galdius, and the Cthulus.

Trouble is, they all failed. They failed to even catch people's eye. And the money men work by precedent and earnings potential, while Kickstarter works through public penis stroking. Either way, it's either go high fantasy, or attempt something serious and have it Titan Quested into high fantasy. If unique settings sold RPGs, this whole thing wouldn't be a problem. But setting does sell RPGs, as long as that setting is either Lord of the Rings or Star Wars. People will buy any sort of crap as long as it even looks like either of those two, and they'll really buy if it has the official logo.

 

[Damned Registrations]

I mean, I think fantasy staples tend more towards DnD and the host of greek monsters it primarily draws from. Everyone knows what a gryphon is, or a medusa or a hydra or a minotaur. And of course skeletons/zombies/wizards are pretty much prehistoric mythology. None of that is tolkien shit. Strip out everything that made tolkien's work unique (elves, dwarves etc.) and you'd still be left with (even more) generic fantasy. Hell, you could probably spend an hour trying to think of all the 'generic' fantasy shit you know of, and any other poster could still rattle off ~10 monsters you'd be able to recognize.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Close enough.

Not an RPG!

Or this one:

Weaboo trash!