Solasta Solasta: Crown of the Magister Thread - now with Palace of Ice sequel DLC

[Cryomancer]

Let casters sustain multiple spells but give them adverse affects whenever concentration is broken. Haste already has the Lethargic effect. Just give all spells some kind of cool way to blow up in your face. Problem solved.

That would be too good for a 5E game...

 

[Parabalus]

What resources?

There's rest spamming and limitless gold here, like in most CRPGs.

Spell slots.

If you show some self restraint and don't rest after every encounter you will be rewarded with a more fun system than the one with concentration. Concentration is a typical solution worse than a problem. and for a limitless gold you need to grind random encounter. Not difficult to show a restraint here.

Nonsense, you need hard time limits (strategic costs in addition to tactical costs) or no rest system makes sense. Only PF does this somewhat well.

Limitless gold for spell components != limitless gold in general, the former is much easier to achieve.

Neither of these applies to Solasta currently, if you rest at each campsite once you're in rest spammer territory, and random encounters should be turned off either way.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

Jedi Master Radek every time you decide not to utilize mechanic that you know is superior - you are larping

Making some adjustments to how I use game mechanics to have fun is not larping. Or do you think non grinding random encounters is just larping?

Is not rest spamming handicapping myself or not cheating?
Is not grinding random encounters handicapping myself or not cheating?
Is not using a very specific build that trivializes the game handicapping myself or not cheating?
Is not using alchemy to become a god after several minutes in Morrowind handicapping myself or not cheating?

The difference between the first two and the others is that grinding and spamming rest requires no game knowledge at all, while building a good character or learning how to exploit alchemy actually necessitates you achieve a minimum level of proficiency with the system. Or would you say is the same to build an optimal character that can deal with anything in the game, compared to resppecing your character each time you are stuck because the game allow you to do so at no cost?

Does it really matter to discussion if I need a deep knowledge about the system or not? Some may say that the possibility of building OP characters forces knowledgeable players to handicap themselves by not using them. Some may even want to balance the system so all OP builds would be out so the players don't need to handicap themselves to play. I just want to say that this line of thinking will eventually lead to sawyerism.

Nonsense, you need hard time limits (strategic costs in addition to tactical costs) or no rest system makes sense

I never had a problem with self restricting my rests. Do you rest after every encounter that have used up some of your resources in BG or IWD? I always play until my party is half dead and nearly out of spell. Even in this state I often try to engage next enemies to the point when I know if it is possible without having super lucky rolls or not. If it is not possible, then I rest. And I am not a person with a strong willpower. If I buy sweets I always eat them on the same day, even if I bought too much of them to eat all in one go. I devour them like a wild animal and then I feel bad about myself

Limitless gold for spell components != limitless gold in general, the former is much easier to achieve.

Ahh, that's what people meant by limitless resources? Thanks, now I understand. Yeah if we are talking about spell components Solasta really do have limitless gold.

 

[lukaszek]

Making some adjustments to how I use game mechanics to have fun is not larping.

sounds like definition of larping to me. Come to terms with it

 

[Anonona]

Does it really matter to discussion if I need a deep knowledge about the system or not? Some may say that the possibility of building OP characters forces knowledgeable players to handicap themselves by not using them. Some may even want to balance the system so all OP builds would be out so the players don't need to handicap themselves to play. I just want to say that this line of thinking will eventually lead to sawyerism.

Yes, it does. If you achieve an easy way to win because you played the game and took the effort and time to find the best possible build, then is not really an easy win, you just got good at the game. When it is easy to win because one of the core system isn't properly designed, then it is a flaw of the game. Sure, we could discuss if the game should had OP builds to begin with, but at least they require the player to master the system, you could even consider them a reward. Unless you use degenerated tactics like metagaming before even playing through the game once. Spamming rest trivializing the games requires no skill, no thought and no knowledge of the system you are using. The fact that they actually have a dungeon where this is not a problem is even more indicative of the flaws in the game design the issue of how easy is to find rations everywhere contributed to the issue too. It felt more like a cop out instead of having to put though when designing the dungeons themselves. That without mentioning that other games like PF KM had a better system, and WoTR seems to improve on it even more.

Also you are twisting my argument. When did I say OP builds shouldn't exists? If you put spamming rest and grinding at the same level as figuring out a powerful build, and then saying me arguing that those are flaws of the game means I'm against OP build, then you are attributing me something I never said. Also what a player decides to do with their play through is not of my concern. I myself limited the use of rest points, trying to use them just once, and only using them more if I though I couldn't continue without doing so. It stills doesn't mean it isn't a flaw of the game.

 

[Parabalus]

I never had a problem with self restricting my rests. Do you rest after every encounter that have used up some of your resources in BG or IWD? I always play until my party is half dead and nearly out of spell. Even in this state I often try to engage next enemies to the point when I know if it is possible without having super lucky rolls or not. If it is not possible, then I rest. And I am not a person with a strong willpower. If I buy sweets I always eat them on the same day, even if I bought too much of them to eat all in one go. I devour them like a wild animal and then I feel bad about myself

I do the same, but like lukaszek says it's larping.

Concentration wouldn't really affect this either way really, it's a different issue.

 

[fantadomat]

I never had a problem with self restricting my rests. Do you rest after every encounter that have used up some of your resources in BG or IWD? I always play until my party is half dead and nearly out of spell. Even in this state I often try to engage next enemies to the point when I know if it is possible without having super lucky rolls or not. If it is not possible, then I rest. And I am not a person with a strong willpower. If I buy sweets I always eat them on the same day, even if I bought too much of them to eat all in one go. I devour them like a wild animal and then I feel bad about myself

I do the same, but like lukaszek says it's larping.

Concentration wouldn't really affect this either way really, it's a different issue.

I never had problem with the resting systems. Why are you people always trying to fuck up the games for us? It is your problem for spamming buffs and resting every 10 seconds,go get checked by a doctor.

 

[Parabalus]

I never had a problem with self restricting my rests. Do you rest after every encounter that have used up some of your resources in BG or IWD? I always play until my party is half dead and nearly out of spell. Even in this state I often try to engage next enemies to the point when I know if it is possible without having super lucky rolls or not. If it is not possible, then I rest. And I am not a person with a strong willpower. If I buy sweets I always eat them on the same day, even if I bought too much of them to eat all in one go. I devour them like a wild animal and then I feel bad about myself

I do the same, but like lukaszek says it's larping.

Concentration wouldn't really affect this either way really, it's a different issue.

I never had problem with the resting systems. Why are you people always trying to fuck up the games for us? It is your problem for spamming buffs and resting every 10 seconds,go get checked by a doctor.

You're the one trying to get rid of concentration and fuck Solasta up.

 

[The_Mask]

He's not wrong, Meredith

I think Margret likes to play high INT chars because he can't even spell.

 

[Desiderius]

superior

If you're restricting yourself to one dimension you're missing the whole point.

 

[fantadomat]

I never had a problem with self restricting my rests. Do you rest after every encounter that have used up some of your resources in BG or IWD? I always play until my party is half dead and nearly out of spell. Even in this state I often try to engage next enemies to the point when I know if it is possible without having super lucky rolls or not. If it is not possible, then I rest. And I am not a person with a strong willpower. If I buy sweets I always eat them on the same day, even if I bought too much of them to eat all in one go. I devour them like a wild animal and then I feel bad about myself

I do the same, but like lukaszek says it's larping.

Concentration wouldn't really affect this either way really, it's a different issue.

I never had problem with the resting systems. Why are you people always trying to fuck up the games for us? It is your problem for spamming buffs and resting every 10 seconds,go get checked by a doctor.

You're the one trying to get rid of concentration and fuck Solasta up.

What??? I never said anything about concentration lol. You are mistaking me for someone else. Are you high on some coke brah ?

 

[CodexTotalWar]

To be fair, it's not that all buff spells in 5E require concentration. It's more so that most of the "obviously good" ones do require it.

Non-concentration buffs are obviously less impactful by nature, but you can still often stack quite few of these for some impressive effects in PnP. I think the issue in Solasta is that they are missing a few pretty key low level non-concentration buffs/spells like Rope Trick, Mirror Image, Aid (Broken), Gift of Alacrity and Fortunes Favor. You also don't get to the levels to cast the super powerful non-concentration buffs (i.e. Heroes' Feast, Mindblank, Foresight).


Given what WoTC was going for in 5E, I think the concentration mechanic does a decent job.

A core design change in 5E is shifting away from "needing" certain classes in party compositions - i.e. not needing a dedicated rogue, cleric or wizard. The concentration mechanic allows parties with no dedicated dispellers to actually have a chance to deal with encounter-changing buffs. Also, with mechanics like BAB progressions removed, no concentration + buff stacking would also create the "when need be, gishes and casters can fight better than the fighter" issue (you can actually argue that is still true with concentration implemented).

I get that spells slots are supposed to be the balancing mechanic, but the flexibility to expend all your resources in key encounters is as much a benefit as it is a limitation. On top of this, in PnP, casters are really the ones with the tools to dictate when resting happens (i.e. via Tiny Hut), and as a DM, you can only toss in so many "surprise, ninjas!" or "the BBEG ends the world in the next 8 hours" scenarios before it becomes tiresome.


I think the constraint of the concentration mechanic actually adds an additional layer of challenge to playing casters, and makes them more fun in practice. There's a little more to consider when it comes to your spell selection and usage, instead of "here's a list of no-brainer good spells that you should always have". Figuring ways out to avoid concentration checks and loss becomes another skillset all together. The truth is, even with the constraints of concentration, casters still sit on the very top of most optimizer's tier lists you see.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

He's not wrong, Meredith

I think Margret likes to play high INT chars because he can't even spell.

If a caster can't spell, he's a bit pointless isn't he?

 

[fantadomat]

To be fair, it's not that all buff spells in 5E

Was talking about 3.5e and how every retarded dev was trying to fix the problem of muh buffing and creating garbage games,same with resting. That is why kingamaker is such a good game,doesn't give a flying shit about the authists and their balance retardation.

 

[Thac0]

I never though much about concentration in 5e, I kind of intuitively picked it up as a neutral change from previous editions. The p&p I played much before DnD (DSA) had fairly aggressive rules for spell concentration aswell, so it was natural for me.

Really interesting how polarising it is to the crpg only crowd, now that it has come to video game form. It definitly plays a lot better in tabletop, tabletop is faster (most battles end in 3 turns average), there are less opportunities to pre buff and it just feels natural that if you are your character you can't hold two strong continous spells at once.

In video game form however it comes apparent that it actually takes away a bit of tactical depth. Mainly because now all spells are seperated in two categories. Concentration game winners, and non concentration (mostly blast) spells. All casters want to open with a concentration game winner, if possible even before combat starts, and try to hold that while running on non concetration blast spells as long as they do. Which is fine, it is a different form of depth than before and I do not weep for the loss of dispel warfare too much.
The problem is when you prebuff with a concentration spell. If you have Bless/Spiritual Guardians or Haste/Conjure Elementals active before combat starts the concentration system becomes greatly annoying. Because now the big initial decision which concentration spell to use for this battle as soon as your turn comes up is gone. Holding concentration is not that hard if you know what you are doing, and your casters become delegated Guiding Bolt/Inflict Wound or Scorching Ray/Fireball bots, while they hold their devastating utility spell from turn 0.

It brings martials and casters closer together, that much is true, but I never had that much of a problem with the caster supremacy, and I prefer solving it by giving martials more juice instead of taking too much away from the casters.

For 6E I hope that they experiment with splitting concentration into different types. One concentration for beneficial spells (ie buffs as a prebuff limit) on and one for offensive spells, control or summons. That would be a modest increase in complexity and rulekeeping, but a large increase in depth.
For further 5e video game adaptions the best thing to hope for is legendary items that allow you to concentrate on two spells at once. Maybe in BG3 or that one blobber 5e game that is on the horizon.

 

[Fedora Master]

Solasta: Such a great game, people would rather discuss 5e rules.

 

[Lhynn]

I think the Flawless Concentration feat is pretty much mandatory in this game because of the reasons you mentioned. I'm glad I picked it up on my cleric.

Wrong. You are better off getting +1 con and proficiency to saving throws feat.

if you have odd constitution this is a +1 from constitution, plus a +4 from proficiency. Making it much better, as it not only affects concentration but every other constitution saving throw.

 

[lukaszek]

I never had a problem with self restricting my rests. Do you rest after every encounter that have used up some of your resources in BG or IWD? I always play until my party is half dead and nearly out of spell. Even in this state I often try to engage next enemies to the point when I know if it is possible without having super lucky rolls or not. If it is not possible, then I rest. And I am not a person with a strong willpower. If I buy sweets I always eat them on the same day, even if I bought too much of them to eat all in one go. I devour them like a wild animal and then I feel bad about myself

I do the same, but like lukaszek says it's larping.

for the record its Zombra who opened my eyes. Larping is good and important to enjoy rpg titles. Once you come to terms with it you introduce more of it and have better experience.

Dont let some weird oblivion communities or forest people cloud your judgements

 

[Shrimp]

I've run into a bit of an unusual bug during my playthrough. I used Divine Intervention on my Cleric and it summoned a divine avatar to fight for me. It was supposed to only last for the duration of the battle, but this buff was dispelled from it when it got attacked. Now it won't go away and it's been following me around for hours as if it's a fifth companion.

 

[harhar!]

So what's the Codex consensus on this game, gentlemen (and occasional liluras)? Worth the while?

It is thoroughly mediocre. The story is generic fantasy trash, there is no C&C, the music is bland, the game is very easy on the medium difficulty, and it looks like it's from 2008. On the plus side, some encounters are fun and there is some nice loot.

They could have done much more with the setting. For example, why is there no quest where we need to figure out, using our own brains, who is and isn't a Sorak in disguise? Maybe, if we pick wrong, there could be dire consequences.

 

[Old Hans]

this game has some of the strangest NPC interactions ive ever seen. Like the dialog option to ask that collector guild lady if she sells healing potions, for no particular reason or the strange introduction to the necromancer in the skull keep. Its all very unintentionally funny

 

[The_Mask]

So what's the Codex consensus on this game, gentlemen (and occasional liluras)? Worth the while?

It is thoroughly mediocre. The story is generic fantasy trash, there is no C&C, the music is bland, the game is very easy on the medium difficulty, and it looks like it's from 2008. On the plus side, some encounters are fun and there is some nice loot.

They could have done much more with the setting. For example, why is there no quest where we need to figure out, using our own brains, who is and isn't a Sorak in disguise? Maybe, if we pick wrong, there could be dire consequences.

I agree with this, except I kinda liked the music.

 

[Larianshill]

You know what do I think about Solasta? During the tutorial, there is this little sub-quest where your rogue infiltrates some sort of a big house, or a mansion. The way interior and exterior blend together, the way verticality adds to the experience, it almost felt like a top-down Dishonored. I've looked at it and thought: "If this is what they show off in the tutorial, I can't wait for the next city location".
And then they never do anything of the sort again.

 

[Kabas]

I remember that in the early access version of the thief tutorial you could use the pickpocket skill.

But yeah, a fully stealth focused mission where you need to navigate a complex castle, make use of verticality and utility spells like spider climb or misty step would have been awesome.

 

[V_K]

There is a fully stealth-focused mission in the game (as in, you get a game over screen if you're discovered), in the spy's background quest. It consists of two rooms and a corridor.