KickStarter Solasta Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[V_K]

For me, it's hard to take Lacrymas' points at face value because he's been incessantly shitting on the game for months before playing it. He had been tirelessly priming himself not to like it - and, big surprise, he didn't. His criticism may be factually correct for the most part, but the way they are framed is greatly blown out of proportion. There's a difference between saying "The game is promising, but lacks in X and Y" and "The game is a mess, the devs are incompetent, it can only be salvaged by fixing X and Y" - even if X and Y are the same.

 

[Lacrymas]

^ Rofl, what a bunch of bullshit. "He's correct, but he's wrong because he hates the game". I don't hate the game, I don't have such an emotional reaction to it, I said the combat has the potential to be great, what more do you want?

 

[V_K]

"He's correct, but he's wrong because he hates the game"

"He may be right about individual flaws but that doesn't mean the game as a whole is shit because he's primed himself to read too much weight into individual flaws"
(frankly, I'm just annoyed by you repeating the same things, right or not, over and over again for months on end - everyone who wanted to hear you, heard you, just stop already)

 

[Lacrymas]

I said what I experienced factually and what I thought of the game. I think I made it clear the game doesn't achieve much in the things it's trying to do. If you think that's hate for the sake of it, so be it.

(frankly, I'm just annoyed by you repeating the same things, right or not, over and over again for months on end - everyone who wanted to hear you, heard you, just stop already)

The only thing I've said "for months" is that the UI has a terrible aesthetic and how the animations are over the top. You just want something to bitch about for some reason.

 

[El Presidente]

All I see is incorrigible fanboys.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Half my posts are replying to people thinking I have a vendetta against this game. Nobody has yet written any refutation against the actual points I made, but is impotently trying to fling shit at me for no reason. I don't hate this game at all, let alone just for the heck of it. I hate the UI, but that's beside the point. All I see is incorrigible fanboys.

While it is indeed retarded to claim Healing Word is not a bonus action, wtf does that have to do with Lacrymas’ more than legitimitate points? Attacking some irrelevant mistake Lacrymas made only seems like so many fanboy tears when his post was very fleshed out and went into detail with the game’s problems - details I happen to agree with (except the claim that linear games are “uneconomical” - linear games can be the cheapest to make).

The encounter design is completely underwhelming for a game where it is more or less the only thing there is. I really don’t mind it being the only thing there is, Blackguards is a personal favorite of mine, but it needs to have attention paid to it then. And right now every encounter feels thoughtsless and basic.

Ah, yes, infamous fanboys with their tears, who barely post any comments with any excitement...
Are we seriously getting into this argument?

Lacrymas get all shit, because he acts like existence of this game is travesty, while all his "legitimative" points existed in previous attempts on adaptation of D&D to computer games and apparently he was fine with it.

If you want a "refutal" to these points, here a lazy version for you:

1. Presentation - it's rough. The voice acting is superfluous and very hit and miss, one of the actresses mispronounced the word "paladins" (she said palAdins, instead of pAladins). The spell FX are okay and probably the best of the visual aspects, but the casting animations need to go imo, or only to be used for very high level spells. You don't need a 2-3 second wind-up time for a cantrip which is supposed to be a snap of the finger. The graphics are NWN2-like, but they do have their charm *for me*. Objectively, however, this should've been a 2D game. Something, somewhere, is too expensive for the budget and it shows in everything.

I can't say much about quality of voice acting (especially pronunciation of words), but I haven't noticed anything on level of Oblivion, so I guess it's fine at least in EA version. Which language setting you using, btw, German or English? After playing this game a bit, I agree that animation of cantrips is too long, but how the fuck it OBJECTIVELY means that game needs to be 2D? If you prefer 2D - fine, just don't pretend that your preference is objective. And, no offense, but sentence " Something, somewhere, is too expensive for the budget and it shows in everything" sounds incredibly stupid, because it's essentially means that you know jack shit about cost of production and trying to theory-crafting (while all money could have been spent on cocaine and hookers, for all we know) a route which all money went through. Or you are trying to say that if this game would be 2D - production would be cheaper? Well, that a load of shit, a good 2D art cost money too. Anyway, fuck ups in voice acting/animations is nothing new, in fact some people keep Cheat Engine on their computers to combat slow animations, this sin plagues whole genre and Solasta isn't the worst example.

2. Story - it's nerdy in a basement-dweller kind of way. It's okay if you are only expecting a typical fantasy romp that your local DM might cook up over the weekend. I'm not entirely sure what's even happening at the end and why the people who are there are there, but maybe it will be cleared up once we get the finished product. There are waaay too many concepts that pop up and aren't explored properly (Copperan's little Seven Suns problem for example), but I don't want to get that much into it, I'll leave it for the hypothetical review.

There nothing wrong or bad with having a "nerdy" story in computer game.

Gameplay - it's one-dimensional. Like I said many times before, the maps are very linear and the only thing you do is move from combat encounter to combat encounter with little hurdles along the way like puzzles that only require you having eyeballs in your face. The combat is theoretically fine, but it needs better encounter design. I can't stress this enough. Most encounters are samey and pointless. Maybe they'll be better if we aren't so grotesquely overleveled/overpowered, but as it stands now I dreaded getting into an encounter because it's just a slow inevitable victory for us by just auto-attacking and spamming cantrips in order to "conserve" spell slots we don't actually need. It's 5E with bad encounter design, bad AI, fewer classes, and no multiclassing, what more can I say?

Oh boy, there it comes. I don't know even where to start. So much screeching about gameplay being shit, but no examples of games which fits perfectly to your requirements for good encounter design/non-linear maps, so devs/everyone else (who was bothered to read your drivel) could compare Solasta with your ideal game and make conclusions for themselves. You could also make a screenshots of your party's misadventures and point out what exactly you did not liked and your suggestion how to fix it. I know, sounds boring, but this price to pay if you want to convince devs to change shit/ warn other people about quality of product. Personally I haven't felt so horribly as you do about gameplay, but maybe I played to much shitty games and my senses for decline worsened over the years. Non-linearity in games is almost always good, but sometimes attempts to do this could cost in general quality of the game.

I just now remembered the verticality aspect of the whole ordeal. It's there, alright. Apart from literally the first dungeon, it didn't change pretty much anything. Just like the lighting system, it's there to consume turns that could be spent not casting Dancing Lights or Fly/Spider Crawl. There's literally 1 build idea I have that utilizes verticality in any meaningful way. It's a gimmick, I think we are all familiar with those in games. Tabletop verticality is there because we are inhabiting a 3D space and it's a thing that exists in 3D spaces. It can be used as much as it can be used irl, but not so much in the very artificial world of a video game.

Wait, are you complaining that there not enough bottomless caverns for your caster to cast Fly? Because if every fucking dungeon was consisted from obstacles which requires to cast Fly - this spell would be must have and limit other possibilities for casters (at least for sorcs). I don't understand.

4. Art - it's fine. I'm lumping music in here as well, but the art/art direction is better than the music. The music is there, but I can't remember any of it, so there you go. There are some pretty cool environments, though, like the library tower. I'd say the maps need more set pieces like that library. Because the maps are so linear, they need something else to distract from that, and more set pieces would be great.

Ok. I think I agree.

Even if you don't hate the game/devs and your intentions is good - you should be more precise about changes that you want in terms of gameplay to gather supporters for your ideas. "This game is shit, but you should fix it only by using vague guesses based on my overly emotional comments" - probably gets you nowhere.

 

[Harthwain]

 

[Lacrymas]

Me saying something doesn't mean I think it's bad (for example nerdy), I'm saying what you should expect. It should've been 2D because I'm pretty sure that's less expensive for what they are going for (full voice acting and shiny SFX). I don't want more verticality, I'm saying the verticality is a gimmick that only exists to eat turns and nothing else. Other than that I have nothing to say, all of it is just non-sequiturs or irrelevant, or outright bad reading comprehension.

 

[fantadomat]

I don't want more verticality

Yeah,verticality seems like a waste of time,it would have been good if it was hiking simulator,but it is not. It is a gimmick that will become old,fast.

 

[Lacrymas]

It doesn't have the time to get old because it's either extremely irrelevant after the first dungeon (due to level design), or you can pull your guys back to a flat surface to force the mobs to come to you. If it was more elaborate than that, it would just be annoying and waste even more of your time than the animations already do. Once you get Fireball, verticality becomes a nonexistent factor altogether.

 

[fantadomat]

It doesn't have the time to get old because it's either extremely irrelevant after the first dungeon, or you can pull your guys back to a flat surface to force the mobs to come to you. If it was more elaborate than that, it would just be annoying and waste even more of your time than the animations already do.

Still it takes a lot of time in exploration,jumping and climbing around to get a chest with some shitty common items. Do hope that most dungeons will have just normal design.

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, well, hope is a cruel mistress.

 

[fantadomat]

Yeah, well, hope is a cruel mistress.

Oh i expect it to be annoying spam of retarded dungeons that make no sense,but i will not loose hope .

 

[Darth Canoli]

I can't say much about quality of voice acting (especially pronunciation of words), but I haven't noticed anything on level of Oblivion

Dude, if you even looked toward oblivion only once thinking : "Oh, i might play that ****" you're disqualified to any conversation regarding cRPG, let alone knowing enough about that turd to compare it to anything.

 

[Butter]

I can't say much about quality of voice acting (especially pronunciation of words), but I haven't noticed anything on level of Oblivion

Dude, if you even looked toward oblivion only once thinking : "Oh, i might play that ****" you're disqualified to any conversation regarding cRPG, let alone knowing enough about that turd to compare it to anything.

Sir, Oblivion is one of the top 101 RPGs of all time, as determined by the prestigious RPGCodex. Show some respect!

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Dude, if you even looked toward oblivion only once thinking : "Oh, i might play that ****" you're disqualified to any conversation regarding cRPG, let alone knowing enough about that turd to compare it to anything.

I was young and much less experienced at this time, you dimwitted imbecile. I also had much less choice in terms of which games I can play and nobody around me in immediate vicinity to suggest better game and I did not knew where to search. If you pretending that you haven't played a shitty game at least once in your life - you worse than retard, you are liar.

 

[Rafidur]

Sir, Oblivion is one of the top 101 RPGs of all time, as determined by the prestigious RPGCodex. Show some respect!

Keep in mind oblivion came out in 2006 and all games before that time were basically garbage. Now that we're used to classics such as Skyrim, Witcher 3, Dragon Age 3, or Cyberpunk, it feels easy to be judgemental, but you shouldn't discount the historical importance of early RPGs like Oblivion.

 

[Lacrymas]

Only hardcore gamers remember Oblivion.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Only hardcore gamers remember Oblivion.

Never played it; so I'm disqualified from that esteemed company.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Only hardcore gamers remember Oblivion.

Never played it; so I'm disqualified from that esteemed company.

I envy you. The naive teenage me bought it thinking it would be improved Morrowind. I imagine that is what picking up a hot girl and then finding out "she" has a dick must feel like.

 

[Ontopoly]

I can't say much about quality of voice acting (especially pronunciation of words), but I haven't noticed anything on level of Oblivion

Dude, if you even looked toward oblivion only once thinking : "Oh, i might play that ****" you're disqualified to any conversation regarding cRPG, let alone knowing enough about that turd to compare it to anything.

Everyone here has probably played DOS2. Sometimes you're just curious and give something a try. The only people who are disqualified are the people who came out of it with fond memories or tried to defend it's existence at any point in their life.

 

[Cryomancer]

I can't say much about quality of voice acting (especially pronunciation of words), but I haven't noticed anything on level of Oblivion

Dude, if you even looked toward oblivion only once thinking : "Oh, i might play that ****" you're disqualified to any conversation regarding cRPG, let alone knowing enough about that turd to compare it to anything.

Everyone here has probably played DOS2. Sometimes you're just curious and give something a try. The only people who are disqualified are the people who came out of it with fond memories or tried to defend it's existence at any point in their life.

I played. Thanks to Shadiversity. He mentioned that it is a "modern baldur's gate" and when I actually played DOS2, I really tried for about 6 hours but never got into the game. The game has EVERYTHING which I hate on modern games. Cooldowns? Check, lackluster skills which you learn in the begining and then the progression is only numbers[1]? Check. Stat stickie every itemization where most of your power come from gear? Check.

Note : I love old school style leveling. A evoker wizard on BG1/2 going from burning hands to fireball, then learning cone of cold and on the ToB, able to make rain meteors and bring comets on HLA was much better than staying the entire game with a single spell.

-----------------------------------

Solasta in other hands, I an loving that game so much. There are areas in some maps which you can only access with fly. The AI of that game is so amazing, My unique critique towards Solasta is the low level gameplay and the lack of a necromancer player character option. I loved their homebrew classes for wizard and cleric. I had strong ToEE vibes playing Solasta. The heavy hack & slash dungeon design, with tactical turn based combat, the focus in the party, not in a single guy among other things made me love Solasta so much.

 

[Myzzrym]

*Comes back after Christmas to glance at RPGCodex, sees a war has broken out with Lacrymas leading the charge*

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU TOO FOLKS! Anyway jokes aside, everyone is entitled to their own opinions. On a personal level I even agree on a fair amount of issues Lacrymas brought up - not knowing a few spells doesn't disqualify someone from giving their take on their personal experience with the game.

Now to be honest some of those aspects will be fixed during Early Access, while others are simply out of scope or not planned. For instance, I've seen many here saying they think having the game fully voice acted is a mistake - and who knows, maybe they are right. It's one of those hindsight 20/20 things where you can't really say beforehand if it's going to be better or worse, because nowadays many games without voice acting will fail to attract a decent crowd (but exceptions exist). Same thing goes for the dialog cutscenes - would it have been better to have a simple old school text box and save ourselves the trouble? Again, maybe, maybe not.

I said it before but I'll reiterate here - Solasta is the baby of Mathieu Girard, our CEO. The guy's put his money, passion and time to create it from scratch, forming a new company to work on the project. As the Creative Director it is absolutely normal that he has his own vision of what the game should be, and he has his own likes and dislikes that even if we do not always share, we do have to respect. For instance, he wanted to move away from the "wall of text to read" dialogs that he doesn't really enjoy in modern cRPG, which is why we're trying out these dialog cutscenes instead. And again, I'm not saying that it's the right (or the wrong) choice - when it comes to things like this it's a matter of preference, and as the Creative Director he steers the ship. Which doesn't mean that it's a selfish endeavor either - Mathieu is far from being a tyrant, imposing his vision on the rest of the team. There are some aspects of the game he absolutely wants to keep, but he is more than reasonable - example with the Lighting Rules where we made a deviation from the 5e ruleset, which was reverted with the most recent patch after massive community feedback.

I hope this clarifies a bit on "why are we focusing on X rather than Y" topics. Now as for the other issues.

The game is indeed rough on the edge, which is what you should expect from an Early Access title. However, the full release is indeed not going to magically solve everything - that would be straight up horseshit, and I hope by now you all know that I'm a rather transparent person. For instance, when I read about the presentation being rough - the voice acting, the faces, some dialogs... I have to agree, as there are simply limits to how much we can spend. Spending on voice acting is expensive, and while we do hire professionals we can't always get the best performance - it can be a mixed bag. The faces is the same issue, we have a few good looking ones, some others don't look so hot (eh at least you can properly RP that 6 CHA character you just created). Dialogs again have the same issue where we don't have a narrative team of 20 writers who can churn out different lines and witty exchanges all the time - nor rewrite 10 times the same dialog because it's not satisfactory.

In terms of story, there is also what we would like to tell, and what we can actually do - in a sense, the story is limited by the scope of the game. I believe we have quite a nice little campaign which yea sure, is quite classic, but I don't think is bad in any way. How it's delivered however is something that may need some polish, so that might see some changes during Early Access. For instance, we're trying to work out some of the kinks in the storytelling - such as the adventurers just plopping the crown on their head without reason (there is magical suggestion afoot, but it's not explained so...)

Encounter Design is definitely something that's going to evolve with Early Access - right now we are mostly sketching out the intentions. This level should have an encounter here, and there - doing this and that should trigger X and Y. Most of you who played already know how unequal the difficulty level of some encounters can be, going for laughingly easy for some trash mobs like the lonely Minotaur sitting there to get slaughtered to "wait what just happened" double lightning bolt insta-TPKs against the double goblin shamans encounter if you have a bad initiative roll - and I'm not even talking about some bosses who've ended countless runs because the party came in underleveled (not like the player could know beforehand either). This is something that we'll be going over in more details when we start fleshing out the different difficulty levels - where do we soften the blow, where do we add some ompf.

It's a bit the same when you're talking about maps not being fully utilized - right now we haven't implemented any side quests yet, but you will be prompted to revisit some areas with new monsters being added and all.

And you're not screaming into the void - feedback is always welcome, even when we don't see eye to eye on everything. At the end of the day you like what you like, and maybe Solasta is just not enjoyable to you which sure sucks a bit but eh there's plenty of great games out there, so no big deal.

PS
I still hate the UI.

I saw that you asshat. Prepare yourself, it's time for fisticuffs

 

[NJClaw]

a war has broken out with Lacrymas leading the charge

rpgcodex > another day, another war broken out with Lacrymas leading the charge

not knowing a few spells doesn't disqualify someone from giving their take on their personal experience with the game.

We know you have to be kind and politically correct, but making even a single mistake in any field whatsoever disqualifies you from giving your take on anything.

For example, you wrote:

everyone is entitled to their own opinions

But I think that "everyone is entitled to HIS own opinion" sounds better, so your entire post is invalid and, frankly, you should be ashamed of yourself.

 

[Desiderius]

I'm interesting in exploring the ramifications of non-everyoneisenlititledtothierownopinion geometries.