KickStarter Solasta Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[gurugeorge]

First time the writers told me that elves of Solasta were turbo-racists that used to their mastery of magic to enslave everyone in the past I also lifted an eyebrow lol.

Its "realistic", and not the only setting doing it, folks with high magic skills will rule kingdoms and enslave others, if they are stronger they will abuse their position of power . It make sense when worldbuilding . Elric of melnibone 's people really are close to elves, whole decadent civilization thriving on slavery . In primeval thule setting elves are slavers too depicted as cruel and decadent.

The problem with that is it's not "realistic." Slavery is highly inefficient as a means of sustaining a leisure class, the only reason it was widespread in the past for that purpose was because there was nothing better. In the real world, slavery fell out of use as soon as technology and industry improved. Also, free people who are working for themselves (understandably) work harder than slaves, so taxing hard-working people is always going to be more lucrative and sustainable than owning lazy malingerers in the long run.

If one substitutes "high magic" for "technology" one can see the nonsense in the idea.

Also, while it's certainly realistic that a high magic society would use its magic to maintain military dominance, it needn't necessarily be expansionist, it could be insular and only use its military might to ensure control over its own lands, and keep other groups in check (such was the case with the empire we call "China" - once the technologically superior Han had conquered the other local nations, they were done with expansionism, built a wall, and were satisfied with roughly the same territory for a thousand years).

Of course a high magic society might hold slaves if they're "just eebil" but in that case they're probably being used as a Nazi substitute by a lazy writer

Nothing in the spellbooks really help to plow the fields . Many spells are combat oriented. Sure you could use golems in your factory but thats certainly more costly , or you could use undeads but that's disgusting. Also its yet to determine how expensive it is to cast spells , reagents and such when widely used, then how many can really cast high level spells . I think slavery is convenient and they still dont have better even in that fantasy economy. They are jsut a martial roman empire like , enhanced by combat magic.

How do you know golems are expensive, they could be as cheap as chips

 

[Mortmal]

First time the writers told me that elves of Solasta were turbo-racists that used to their mastery of magic to enslave everyone in the past I also lifted an eyebrow lol.

Its "realistic", and not the only setting doing it, folks with high magic skills will rule kingdoms and enslave others, if they are stronger they will abuse their position of power . It make sense when worldbuilding . Elric of melnibone 's people really are close to elves, whole decadent civilization thriving on slavery . In primeval thule setting elves are slavers too depicted as cruel and decadent.

The problem with that is it's not "realistic." Slavery is highly inefficient as a means of sustaining a leisure class, the only reason it was widespread in the past for that purpose was because there was nothing better. In the real world, slavery fell out of use as soon as technology and industry improved. Also, free people who are working for themselves (understandably) work harder than slaves, so taxing hard-working people is always going to be more lucrative and sustainable than owning lazy malingerers in the long run.

If one substitutes "high magic" for "technology" one can see the nonsense in the idea.

Also, while it's certainly realistic that a high magic society would use its magic to maintain military dominance, it needn't necessarily be expansionist, it could be insular and only use its military might to ensure control over its own lands, and keep other groups in check (such was the case with the empire we call "China" - once the technologically superior Han had conquered the other local nations, they were done with expansionism, built a wall, and were satisfied with roughly the same territory for a thousand years).

Of course a high magic society might hold slaves if they're "just eebil" but in that case they're probably being used as a Nazi substitute by a lazy writer

Nothing in the spellbooks really help to plow the fields . Many spells are combat oriented. Sure you could use golems in your factory but thats certainly more costly , or you could use undeads but that's disgusting. Also its yet to determine how expensive it is to cast spells , reagents and such when widely used, then how many can really cast high level spells . I think slavery is convenient and they still dont have better even in that fantasy economy. They are jsut a martial roman empire like , enhanced by combat magic.

How do you know golems are expensive, they could be as cheap as chips

Ah reading every old d&d rulebooks, there's always a chapter on how to craft magic items and making golems . No matter the edition its very costly, require time and a high level caster. So i assume in solasta it will be as well.

 

[deuxhero]

I am actually have some problem thinking about a setting with no slaver elves.
generally is always the drow/dark variant, but sometime is the high variant be the slaver.

Eberron. The elves were the slaves to the giants and haven't had any of their own. Even the drow aren't much for slavery since the largest group are nomads.

 

[V_K]

I am actually have some problem thinking about a setting with no slaver elves.

Harry Potter.

 

[Cryomancer]

No matter the edition its very costly, require time and a high level caster. So i assume in solasta it will be as well.

And it make sense. BTW, a Golem value is immeasurable. Imagine a servant. Now a servant that will never betray you. Work with no disease, fatigue or anything and that your ancestors can take as heritage.

-------------------------

As for slavery of sapient creatures, it held back humanity and would held back the population of a fictional world. What I mean by that? The world only had the industrial revolution thanks to the end of slavery. Investing into labor saving devices in a world with slavery reduces your slave value. The greeks and romans was pretty advanced for his time, Greeks had the Aeolipile, a rudimentary steam engine millenniums before the industrial revolution. But why invest into this weird tech if the slaves does all the work? The humanity has a large debt with the British empire for ending slavery. It allowed humanity to progress extremely faster. The same applies in a "high magical fictional world". With the difference being "magic" instead of tech.

 

[Bara]

Wood golems are more ecanomical and flammable.

 

[Sergiu64]

A Golem value is immeasurable. Imagine a servant. Now a servant that will never betray you.

Hahahahahahaha... Hehehehe... Never betray... Hahaha.

 

[Desiderius]

Illiterates

 

[Harthwain]

The world only had the industrial revolution thanks to the end of slavery. Investing into labor saving devices in a world with slavery reduces your slave value. [...] The humanity has a large debt with the British empire for ending slavery.

Bullshit.

You can "end slavery" and replace it with something else, because you still need people to do the work. Look at feudalism, which was essentially a slavery for peasants under a different name. What the British Empire did was the same thing: it merely replaced slaves with wage slaves. You don't need a master to whip you to work if you have to work in order to survive (feed yourself). You had debtors' prisons. You had whole families of the "free people", including small children, working in atrocious conditions exactly for this very reason. It took Factory Acts to get rid of that practice in Britain.

And if you think nowadays is a lot better, you only have to look where your clothes come from - not only is the work outsourced, it's outsourced to the "lowest bidder". Which often means a place where you can pay people as low as possible. I believe the term "sweatshop" applies here. But thank God and the Queen we don't have to work in sweatshops anymore, because we have some dirt-poor Indian women doing it for us.

Edit:

The same principle applies to "high magic is technology under another name" - since you can't subsitute enough work with magic/technology, there will always be the need for an actual workforce doing the work (regardless if they'll be slaves or wage slaves). Your golems and undead won't be plowing the field, they are much more likely to serve as shock troops in battle, especially if they are rare (as they should be).

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

This thread gone places.

 

[Elex]

Solasta writer be like:

At relase : “wtf why now there is ancient wood golem shocktroopers as a random ecounter???”

 

[Cryomancer]

to whip you to work if you have to work in order to survive (feed yourself). You had debtors' prisons. You had whole families of the "free people", including small children, working in atrocious conditions exactly for this very reason. It took Factory Acts to get rid of that practice in Britain.

This people before would be dead. The industrial revolution improved the quality of the life exponentially. And debt prisons still exists, but only for fathers who can't pay child support, some times for a child who isn't of his own(instead of punishing paternity fraud, which should be a crime like any type of fraud). And guess what, in regions where people lacks labor saving devices, people still work in awful conditions. This "wage slaves" could easily open his business or find a better job. Real slaves can't. And people in "servitude", like people conscripted by the state also can't. The average wages was awful in the first years of industrial revolution, but the work force value got a increase on his value exponentially with time. And if someone don't like the factory lives on UK, he could go to the "new world" try to life there. Do you know where people live miserable lives? Where they have a tyrannical government prohibiting then from improving their lives, like in North Korea. Since the industrial revolution, this is the first generation with less purchasing power than the previous one. Thanks to the government expansionism.

In fantasy, this is what makes Eberron so interesting. Industrialized magic. High fantasy Noir, constructs made to war(warforged), airships and Glantri on Mystara is also very interesting. I wish we had a video game set in Glantri. A high fantasy magocracy version of Venice, where Manlet races such as Dwarf and Hobbits Halflings are hated and vivisected to be studied.

Solasta campaign setting seems each day more interesting TBH. I wish that this talk about slavery of Dwarfs become a point on the main quest of the game.

At relase : “wtf why now there is ancient wood golem shocktroopers as a random ecounter???”

Solasta seems to be a low level setting and low level game. Constructs doesn't seem to be common in Solasta.

 

[Harthwain]

And guess what, in regions where people lacks labor saving devices, people still work in awful conditions.

People still work in awful conditions, because it's cheaper that way. "Labor saving devices" can't replace labor. That's the whole point of outsourcing jobs - you pay workers less to produce an item (or get more items at the same cost), which results in higher net gain. What it proves is that all this work still has to come from somewhere.

 

[Cryomancer]

People still work in awful conditions, because it's cheaper that way. "Labor saving devices" can't replace labor.

Actually can. Amazon has a 100% fully automated factory and in a fantasy world where you can create golems, raise undead and so on, automation would be even easier. On arcanum, there are a group of guys who are using undead manlets in his production line. Glantri should do that to manlet races, they would be more useful than being vivisected.

 

[Harthwain]

Actually can. Amazon has a 100% fully automated factory [...]

Source?

According to Reuters, Amazon has 110 warehouses in the US, 45 sorting centers, and roughly 50 delivery stations, all of which employ more than 125,000 full-time warehouse workers. But only a fraction of the overall labor is performed by robots. Right now, robots are simply too imprecise and clumsy and require too much training to be deployed on factory floors outside very narrow use cases.

For instance, Amazon uses small, Roomba-shaped robots simply called “drives” mostly to deliver large stacks of products to human workers, by following set paths around the warehouse. “In the current form, the technology is very limited. The technology is very far from the fully automated workstation that we would need,” Anderson told Reuters, which toured an Amazon warehouse in Baltimore earlier today.

Full automation is 10 years away. At best.

[...] and in a fantasy world where you can create golems, raise undead and so on, automation would be even easier. On arcanum, there are a group of guys who are using undead manlets in his production line. Glantri should do that to manlet races, they would be more useful than being vivisected.

Again, you are forgetting about the cost. Yes, you can create golems. Yes, you can raise the dead. But it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

[Lacrymas]

Also, they are called wage slaves for a reason. They can't simply open their own business, it doesn't work that way unless one has huge luck or somehow finds a loophole that isn't exploited already. Even if you do manage to find something like this, a richer company can and will run you out of business, look at Amazon. The odds are severely not in the average person's favour. Not to mention the education needed to pull yourself out of poverty.

 

[Cryomancer]

Full automation is 10 years away. At best.

Even today. Machinery can allow the work that was made by hundreds of workers by a single work in less time. We produce more food with less and less agricultural workers.

they are called wage slaves for a reason

They was dumb to get on debt knowing the consequences. Deal with it.

a richer company can and will run you out of business, look at Amazon.

Actually, the government benefits this large corporations with his regulations. Look to the pandemics. The local business store is non essential but walmart, target and etc by some reason are.

---------------------------------

But lets move back to solasta talk. I also wanna see two things in the game

1. LARGE CREATURE FIGHTS -> Krakens, dragons, terrasques and so on. With verticality, fighting dragons would be amazing
2. AQUATIC LEVEL -> With verticality, a aquatic level would be awesome.

 

[Larianshill]

What I want to see is a memorable charactet or two. The game has one so far.

 

[Mortmal]

What I want to see is a memorable charactet or two. The game has one so far.

Who ? Non ironically.

 

[Hobo Elf]

What I want to see is a memorable charactet or two. The game has one so far.

Male Voice 2 is the most memorable character I've seen in a vidya since ELEX. It's a gift.

 

[Larianshill]

Who ? Non ironically.

As I mentioned before,

Spoiler

Kythaela. Which is a shame, because she dies.

Male Voice 2

All voices aside from Female Voice 3 are pretty good, although I'll really need another playthrough, using them for different personalities, to appreciate them fully.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

In fantasy, this is what makes Eberron so interesting. Industrialized magic. High fantasy Noir, constructs made to war(warforged), airships and Glantri on Mystara is also very interesting. I wish we had a video game set in Glantri. A high fantasy magocracy version of Venice, where Manlet races such as Dwarf and Hobbits Halflings are hated and vivisected to be studied.

D&D's Known World / Mystara campaign setting included two magocracies, the Principalities of Glantri detailed in Gazetteer 3 and the Empire of Alphatia detailed in the Dawn of the Emperors box set.

Moreover, the later box set Champions of Mystara included rules for building airships, which were a prominent feature of the Alphatian setting (not in Glantri), and part of the content is a reprint of "The Voyage of the Princess Ark" series, which had a lengthy run in Dragon Magazine.

 

[whydoibother]

Looking through some press releases and interviews now, and it seems like the editor will remain just a dungeon encounter building. They said they will add some scripting like quests/dialogues IF there is enough "participation from the community". Meaning, if enough people use our unfinished level editor, we will finish them. But why would anyone use it when its not finished? Dumb copout.
I really wanted this to be at least on par with Neverwinter Nights, a game from 20 years ago. Even Warcraft III has a more powerful level editor than what this appears to be.

As for the game itself, I notice a lot of invisible platforms. I think my character just walks from A to B, when they should be jumping from A to B, and not walking on air? And we could really use some unique animations for enemies climbing, because right now as they walk up the vertical wall the player can't tell if its a bug or a feature. I imagine it must be a feature, and it makes sense for spiders to do it, but humanoid enemies should have a specific animation for it to not look dumb.
Additionally the tutorial tells you to beware light sources when sneaking, but the early encounters are best done by sneaking towards a dead torch to light it, because enemies gain bonuses from the dark while your party suffers penalties. New players might struggle with this, we just need some dialogue option asking about ooooh those lizard dudes can see in the dark, we best use light to our advantage, etc.

Overall, I can't wait for Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[V_K]

Neverwinter Nights, a game from 20 years ago

...made by a team of about 150 people (not counting the publisher staff). As opposed to Solasta's 30 (or was it 20? Can't bother to check).

 

[whydoibother]

Neverwinter Nights, a game from 20 years ago

...made by a team of about 150 people (not counting the publisher staff). As opposed to Solasta's 30 (or was it 20? Can't bother to check).

... made by a team of mostly amateurs and interns, before modern tools streamlined video game development. I am not a published game developer, but the kind of "level editor" they are showing us here is something I specifically have done in Unity while playing around with that system. Its just a 2D plane, in which you place tiles, and then this map is translated into a 3D level to play through. Its not something you need 150 people and years of development to do, it something a beginner can do in a month, only working on weekends.