Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[thevaliant]

I haven't played this game specifically but concerning Valla I found this on the FRUA forums:

Go to the Silver Blades cave and see Vala, but decline to have her join you. Then get the 4 items and go to the cave where the Vaasans are breaking in; Vala will join you. Decline to fight them, then go back to where they are trying to break in and decline again. You now have 2 Valas in the party. Leave the cave and one will leave, but you can have Vala all over the rest of the game.

A mere four years later, it was I who raised this issue back on Bit O'Moander forum back in 2010: https://bitomoander.runboard.com/t15,offset=10
The funny thing was, I thought this was a common trick and used it throughout the 1990s (no internet then - I discovered it all on my own) whenever I dug out Pools of Darkness on the Amiga.

I didn't know you could fight the final battle and KEEP Vala by dropping a party member first (and getting three at one point) so that's interesting.

It did make me wonder whether Shal or another NPC could also be tricked into joining permanently, but given I then had seven party members and needed a slot for the times when an eighth would join I never explored that possibility.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Oh yeah! I totally forgot about that. I think i tried that in the other games as well. I can't recall if i had any success.

 

[octavius]

Heh, one of the few times I "broke" a game, was back in my Amiga days when I made Princess Fatima in PoR a permanent party member.
Having two Valas, though, that's just silly.

 

[Dorateen]

We had a saying when playing Secret of the Silver Blades.

"Discretion is the better part of Vala".

 

[thevaliant]

As an aside, if you did use the exploit to have two Vala's in the party (along with six regular PCs) this would fill all eight slots usually allowed for the player party.

Could you then even win Pools of Darkness? I'm sure there are sections of the game where you absolutely have to have another NPC (Shal springs to mind) to go forward with the main questline. If Shal can't join because of 'two' Vala's, does the game kick one Vala out, or simply crash, or simply make it unable to win?

 

[DavidBVal]

I just completed Champions of Krynn. It was a real fun game, actually better than I expected.

I prefer starting my comment on the negative. Encounters were not varied enough: it was mostly draconians, or humans/elves, or draconians mixed with humans/elves. Oh, and those damn mobats. There's an area with minotaurs, but that's about it. Almost every fight has spellcasters, so they end up playing the same. Minibosses are almost invariably dragons, with a couple exceptions.

Another poorly designed thing is fighter-type monster stats during the first half of the game. Too good AC and too high HP. Your level 2 party will have to fight AC 3 and 35hp fighters, which means a miss-fest that eventually ends when enemies surrender; only when you get some decent weapons in the middle of the game things seem to feel different. This combined with the omnipresent spellcasters makes battles feel more annoying than exciting. I found myself encamp-saving all the time, while in PoR I usually saved once per area.

The overland map looks pretty and is serviceable, but it really includes zero exploration or secrets. A pity! Finally, some of the "plot twists" towards the end are a bit silly, to be honest. It feels like an improvised mess, rather than well thought-out. "It was all a trap from the beginning, mwahaha!". oookay, if you say so.

Now, on the positive. Silly or not silly, the plot's epic scale in the final areas was pretty fun to play; all the cool elements of Dragonlance like flying citadels, death knights and draconians exploding was surprising and exciting, plus the appearances of some of the iconic novel characters was heartwarming. Some of the areas like the Tomb, or the Ogre Fort, or the whole final sequence was pretty original and I never knew what to expect. Compared to Pool of radiance I'd say this game is comparable and even superior in some aspects: the maps have a lot of scripted events and locations, and some NPCs present real fun plotlines (even if all the interactions are linear). I'd say art is overall better, and character creation has many more options, with demihumans being more playable and the different types of clerics and mages. Still I'd rate PoR clearly higher than this game because of the more fun and varied encounters, the sandbox-like exploration and nonlinearity. PoR just has a more solid feel, when you fight a spellcaster or a dragon it feels special, here you're so used to it that it becomes routine. But I can see how some players would find CoK more enjoyable.

I'll take a break before DKoK, but certainly I'll be playing it sometime this year.

 

[Desiderius]

DKoK’s map is not empty.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

You'll enjoy DKOK a lot. If i were to go on a rating list atm its:
1. POR
2. CURSE
3. DKOK
4. Silver
5. Gateway
6. Cok
7. Dqok
8. POD
9. Treasures

 

[DavidBVal]

You'll enjoy DKOK a lot. If i were to go on a rating list atm its:
1 POR
2. CURSE
3. DKOK
4. Silver
5. Gateway
6. Cok
7 Dqok
8 POD
9. Treasures

Hmmm I don't know. I played Gateway back in the day and my memories ain't fond, I'd need to replay to judge fairly but as of now I'd say CoK is a better game. Also I loved PoD despite levels being too high.

 

[octavius]

The great ones:
PoR, CoAB, PoD, DKK and DQK.

The good ones:
CoK, Buck Rogers 1, Treasures of SF.

The meh ones:
SotSB, Gateway to SF, Buck Rogers 2.

 

[DavidBVal]

The great ones:
PoR, CoAB, PoD, DKK and DQK.

The good ones:
CoK, Buck Rogers 1, Treasures of SF.

The meh ones:
SotSB, Gateway to SF, Buck Rogers 2.

So far I agree with your analysis although I think I enjoyed more CoK than CotAB, or at least similarly. If it wasn't for the Beholder Corps battle, I'd certainly rate CoK above CotAB.

Probably not an objective thing and related to expectations more than anything else.

 

[Sinatar]

DQoK is toilet tier.

 

[DavidBVal]

Turns out I didn't do a break at all, I am already playing Dark Knights of Krynn.

I went with my old party except that replaced one of my Knights with a Fighter/Red Mage/Thief. I wanted more firepower and some melee backstabbing, something my kender CLE/Thief wouldn't be suited for.

So far I am enjoying the battles with enemies coming from all sides, a welcome tactical challenge. Monster variety is also decent so far.

The auto-memorization is certainly a welcome improvement, as is the auto-targeting and auto-join of darts and arrows.

The plot feels a bit weird, nonsensical even. All this dreamstone stuff coming out of nowhere, dragons trying to be my friends but then the hellhound appears out of nowhere to thwart that friendship... which I really didn't understand to begin with... Maybe some of these plot elements are Dragonlance books references I should be jizzing my pants at? Right now I'm not really "excited" about exploring, finding out what's going on, etc and just go from point A to point B as told, killing everything on the way. I hope it gets a bit more consistent later on, although I'm not here for the plot so it's ok.

 

[octavius]

Turns out I didn't do a break at all, I am already playing Dark Knights of Krynn.

I went with my old party except that replaced one of my Knights with a Fighter/Red Mage/Thief. I wanted more firepower and some melee backstabbing, something my kender CLE/Thief wouldn't be suited for.

You'll miss him when facing those nasty magic resistant unturnable Skeletal Warriors.

 

[Cael]

Turns out I didn't do a break at all, I am already playing Dark Knights of Krynn.

I went with my old party except that replaced one of my Knights with a Fighter/Red Mage/Thief. I wanted more firepower and some melee backstabbing, something my kender CLE/Thief wouldn't be suited for.

So far I am enjoying the battles with enemies coming from all sides, a welcome tactical challenge. Monster variety is also decent so far.

The auto-memorization is certainly a welcome improvement, as is the auto-targeting and auto-join of darts and arrows.

The plot feels a bit weird, nonsensical even. All this dreamstone stuff coming out of nowhere, dragons trying to be my friends but then the hellhound appears out of nowhere to thwart that friendship... which I really didn't understand to begin with... Maybe some of these plot elements are Dragonlance books references I should be jizzing my pants at? Right now I'm not really "excited" about exploring, finding out what's going on, etc and just go from point A to point B as told, killing everything on the way. I hope it gets a bit more consistent later on, although I'm not here for the plot so it's ok.

DKK is about the open sand box exploration of the world map, one of the first of its kind. The plot is not that great, truth to be told, and no, it has little to do with the plots of the books.

 

[octavius]

I wonder if DKK was inspired more by the Legends of Huma novel than by the main Dragonlance novels? The whole atmosphere of the game is more like that book, while CoK is more obviously Dragonlance.

 

[DavidBVal]

Turns out I didn't do a break at all, I am already playing Dark Knights of Krynn.

I went with my old party except that replaced one of my Knights with a Fighter/Red Mage/Thief. I wanted more firepower and some melee backstabbing, something my kender CLE/Thief wouldn't be suited for.

You'll miss him when facing those nasty magic resistant unturnable Skeletal Warriors.

Well, they can be backstabbed, but indeed they are a pain.

 

[DavidBVal]

Regarding the Skeletal Warriors: they are vulnerable to disintegrate!

Also, backstabbing them really helps. The problem is the weapons able to backstab have reduced damage, so I'm dealing 20-32 damage per hit, and positioning ain't easy. I still haven't figured why sometimes I am not actually baclstabbing, even when just hit them from the opposite side.

 

[octavius]

Also, backstabbing them really helps. The problem is the weapons able to backstab have reduced damage, so I'm dealing 20-32 damage per hit,

That's why a Kender with a Hoopak is nice. They do full damage. And don't underestimate the effects of the Enlarge spell. You can also find a Girdle of Giant Strength early in the game. It's rather wasted on a Kender thief, except when traveling through the catacombs of the High Clerist Tower.

and positioning ain't easy. I still haven't figured why sometimes I am not actually baclstabbing, even when just hit them from the opposite side.

Maybe you had already hit them from a different side?

 

[DavidBVal]

You can also find a Girdle of Giant Strength early in the game.

Oh? I must have missed that! Thanks

Regarding BS'ing, I figured it out. Monsters just turn once per round, if you keep attacking they don't keep changing facing. Good tip about enlarge, and maybe Strength is worth a shot since it has a decent duration...

 

[Cael]

You can also find a Girdle of Giant Strength early in the game.

Oh? I must have missed that! Thanks

Regarding BS'ing, I figured it out. Monsters just turn once per round, if you keep attacking they don't keep changing facing. Good tip about enlarge, and maybe Strength is worth a shot since it has a decent duration...

They turn to face the first attack that round. That is why if you want to backstab, the manual advices you have your thief and a buddy wait until everyone has moved, then hit an enemy from opposite sides.

 

[Null Null]

Disintegrate? Theoretically they should have to fail a magic resistance check and a saving throw to be affected by that, so I think you have found a bug. But a useful one.

Apparently someone figured out the whole blue dragon thing on a discussion at CRPG Addict's.

Spoiler

The blue dragons work for Kitiara, who hates Lord Soth. That's why they try to talk to you and the Dread Wolf chases them off. How on earth you were supposed to figure that out I have no clue.

 

[Cael]

Disintegrate? Theoretically they should have to fail a magic resistance check and a saving throw to be affected by that, so I think you have found a bug. But a useful one.

Apparently someone figured out the whole blue dragon thing on a discussion at CRPG Addict's.

Spoiler

The blue dragons work for Kitiara, who hates Lord Soth. That's why they try to talk to you and the Dread Wolf chases them off. How on earth you were supposed to figure that out I have no clue.

Kitiara's was the leader of the Blue Wing, the one consisting of all of the blue dragons in the Dragon Armies. Her nickname is the Blue Lady, for Pete's sake. How could anyone not figure it out once you know Kitiara is involved.

 

[Null Null]

There's nothing connecting Kitiara to the blue dragons in the game, though. She doesn't complain about how her dragons couldn't grab the stone or anything like that. She just

Spoiler

shows up and tries to kill Soth

.

I get Dragonlance fans would have thought blue dragons=Kitiara, but it didn't seem obvious to me at the time--there are tens of Blue Dragons swooping down on you by the Dragon Pit, are they all working for Kitiara? If they were, wouldn't they get out of your way so you can dispose of Soth?

Looking too hard for plot holes in these games is always a little silly (if the Dreadlord had hundreds of 14th level fighters and mages at his disposal, why hadn't he conquered the whole Realms by now? why are we still unable to visit Waterdeep at the end of Treasures after our names have been cleared?), but that one threw me for a loop.

 

[Cael]

There's nothing connecting Kitiara to the blue dragons in the game, though. She doesn't complain about how her dragons couldn't grab the stone or anything like that. She just

Spoiler

shows up and tries to kill Soth

.

I get Dragonlance fans would have thought blue dragons=Kitiara, but it didn't seem obvious to me at the time--there are tens of Blue Dragons swooping down on you by the Dragon Pit, are they all working for Kitiara? If they were, wouldn't they get out of your way so you can dispose of Soth?

Looking too hard for plot holes in these games is always a little silly (if the Dreadlord had hundreds of 14th level fighters and mages at his disposal, why hadn't he conquered the whole Realms by now? why are we still unable to visit Waterdeep at the end of Treasures after our names have been cleared?), but that one threw me for a loop.

Because there isn't? Dragon Pit is full of Undead Dragons, Skeletal Knights, other undead, Nightmares and one captive Red Dragon. No Blue Dragon.