Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[Cynic]

Could do that, or just read the walk through to jog my memory. Easier that way.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I'm catching up to Cynic. I had some trouble clearing out the first dungeon, but then I realized my characters could have levelled up twice. One stop into town, back into the dungeon for a couple of encounters, and back into town again resulted in my non-mage characters reaching 4th level. After that it was a cake walk, with the white dragons being ridiculously easy. They went down without me employing stinking cloud, but instead fell to my front line swordsmen.

When I was done there I had two knights of the sword at 3rd level, and my ranger, cleric, white mage and red mage at 4th level.

Now I'm in the elven town that has been taken over by evil thugs. I purposely walked into their ambush since I got lucky and my red mage benefitted from the lunar cycle by gaining a temporary extra level that resulted in her memorizing several fireball spells despite her being only level 4. I've gotten a thief NPC to join after that fight and she's telling me there is a safe house somewhere to the northwest. Once I find it, I plan to rest up and take the town apart piece by piece. I can't memorize sleep spells if I want my magic-users to be effective, however, since the enemy are all elves with resistances to sleep and charm. So magic missile comes into play once more.

The game is pretty tough at parts and reminds me a bit of Curse of the Azure Bonds because of the large amount of humanoid spellcasters. This is both a good thing due to the challenge, but also a bad thing because combat usually devolves into a magic slug fest where each side hopes to win initiative in order to suppress the opposing caster, and my fighters become much less important. I do very much like the class system as the knights are pretty awesome and the moon-based wizard cycles are pretty interesting.

 

[octavius]

I hated all the elven enemies in CoK. Not because of their resistances, but because I'm a sad Dragonlance nerd evil elves are very rare in Krynn.

Last time I played I only returned to the oupost once to report, and then I did the whole Throtl dungeon in one go. It seems rather silly to be pursuing the egg snatchers, then take some days off to train and rest, and then resume the chase after the egg snatchers who have remained in a statis in the meantime, even if the game does not punish you for it.

 

[octavius]

I see the @crpgaddict will start Champions of Krynn soon. Wonder if he'll finish the game before @Cynic and @Deuce Traveler?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I see the @crpgaddict will start Champions of Krynn soon. Wonder if he'll finish the game before @Cynic and @Deuce Traveler?

I'm going to beat out his posts at least, and I'll probably knock out two or three more towns and dungeons today. I could have been done already, but I was really getting into System Shock 2, so I finished that instead last week. CRPGAddict still had the Third Courier, Keef the Thief, and Rings of Medusa yet to go and before that he had a few weeks of no activity. I had no idea he would beat the Third Courier in a handful of days, get this far on Keef, and drop Rings of Medusa by now. I figure the lag in activity was from him finishing up a project, and now he has some spare time and using it solely to game. So now I'm focused on Champions of Krynn for the next week so I can stay ahead of his posts. It looks like his posts are prepped for days in advance to allow him time for last minute edits, so for all we know he's already finished Champions of Krynn.

Octavius posts often on the addict's site, but I lurk just as often. I follow his site in order to find some CRPG gems I didn't know about before. For example, he definitely sparked my interest to play Sword of Aragon. I intend to beat Champions of Krynn before he does and compare notes to see what I missed. Once I finish the Krynn series, I can finally feel comfortable in taking part of the voting in this thread. So far Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Pools of Darkness, and FRUA will get my vote. I'm on the fence about Treasures of the Savage Frontier as it was much better than Gateway, and so far I think Champions of Krynn will also make the list.

 

[Cynic]

Bros don't turn this into a competition I don't have much time to play!

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I'm finished!

Bros don't turn this into a competition I don't have much time to play!

Too late.

I didn't treat this as a competition. More of an opportunity. Work gave me some free time the last few days after I had to do office stuff and missed several weekends this summer. And the family is out visiting relatives, leaving the house to myself. Pretty much I've done nothing but workout, run, play Champions of Krynn during the day, and Thief 2 at night. In fact, I'm typing this in between waiting for robots to pass in the second to last mission of Thief 2.

I liked this game, and they finally got pretty clever in the enemies employed. Wizards and priests? No problem as long as I have initiative. Undead? The cleric has that worked. Dragons? Too weak until the end. But when the game mixes spellcasters with poisonous creatures that can kill with one bite or sting, things admittedly get pretty dicey and my mages wasted their fireballs pretty quickly, leaving me in trouble in highly patrolled areas.

The game reminded me of why I really liked Dragonlance up until the Twins trilogy. Compared to Forgotten Realms, it was more grounded because of the wars from the grunt perspective, lack of high level healing, and the lower to mid-level feel, where an 8th level character was a pretty big deal. It also had draconians, flying fortresses, betrayals and reforged alliances between old friends, knights, death knights, and evil black mages that were complex and often still worked for the forces of civilization against the Dark Queen. Dragonlance somehow found the balance between serious and camp. Before they went too far by overusing kender, gully dwarves, trilogies, Fizban and other things.

The kender in this game are used in small amounts and just avoid being annoying, but they are supposed to be awesome with their hoopak. I went all human, but I was almost tempted to try out a fighter kender and see what he could do with the the hoopak as a ranged warrior... almost...

Ultimately I went with two knights, a cleric, a red mage, a white mage, and a ranger. One of my knights sucked hard when it came to rolling up hit points, and even the cleric is beating him out. I'll see if he can survive the higher levels in the next two games, but if he and the cleric keep having issues I may drop them for another knight and a cleric/fighter.

I won't spoil the end, but it was both enjoyable and frustrating. Enjoyable because it really brought me back to what was good in Dragonlance and reminded me that this was actually a really good series way back when, and not just because I have rose-colored glasses looking back upon my youth. Frustrating because of several oddball moments:

- Like Octavius mentioned, their use of elves as bad guys isn't consistent with the lore of the setting. Evil elves were possible, but rare and outcasts from society. In this game they seemed to have formed large bands.

- Same with mages who did not join one of the three orders. Even a majority of the black robes fought against the invasion. Mages not of the tower would have been hunted down, and could not have numbered so greatly as hinted in the manual and by the encounters in game. Clerics were fine, though.

- The game hand-holds you by telling you what you need to do next. But then, after I killed one of the main bad guys, there is no indication on what to do. But I found out about an ambush, left the dungeon to warn my allies, and just travelled to each outposts to warn people. But that wasn't the solution. What I was supposed to do next was try to kill the other bad guys in the same dungeon. So I had to go all the way back to the dungeon and search every nook and cranny. When I did find them, I was whisked away through a convoluted plot that led me to more enemies. Why couldn't I warn my allies, then go kill the bad guys?

- I went thief-less, but had to create a thief to get past only one mandatory, weak part of the whole game. I made him, did the quest, dropped him, and had my knight rejoin and continued on.

- My mage died on my last encounter. No big deal. I went to raise her in the temple, but I need 2750 steel coins to do so. I went to the temple, then pooled my money together, but I needed her to have it on my corpse as this would not work. I loaded her with 1500 platinum pieces, which is more than 2750 steel. Because it wasn't steel, the pile of coins still wouldn't work as she got an insufficient funds message. She didn't have the strength to hold 2750 steel coins, and even if she did, the party had been carrying platinum, gems, and jewelry and lacked the steel. In hindsight, I could have sold off jewelry to get the steel, put a girdle of giant strength on her corpse, and had her try again. Instead I replayed the last battle for an hour until I completed it with everyone alive.

- There is a city to the east you can use to grind XP, and the amount of enemies encountered varies. I tried it for an hour and only survived once on a low amount of generated foes and with some luck. I only got 4k XP each for it, then messed up the next computer query and accidentally fought another horde that wiped me out before I could save. The computer gives the dozens of dragons and draconians initiative and a surprise round. It's not really worth attempting as you can grind for XP a lot more successfully in Sanction with some patience.

I just put my Death Knights of Krynn dosbox folder together and noticed something as I'm abbreviating folders...

Champions of Krynn... COK
Death Knights of Krynn... D KOK
Dark Queen of Krynn... D QOK

This series has some cock-ups.

 

[octavius]

@Deuce Traveler, sounds you are even more of a Dragonlance nerd than me. I hadn't thought about all the Black Robes fighting for the Dark Queen.

Surprised to hear that you had so much problems raising your dead character. Isn't there an option to Pool gold? Also, I thought healing was free at the outposts, but I may misremember. But I recall writing a few times that the economy in the Krynn games are broken, since there's so little to spend it on.

And what is that city in the east called?

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Tried pooling money. Didn't work and the Outpost #2 was charging me for Raise Dead. Outpost #3 is broken even after you save it, for you cannot purchase anything there, and I didn't try Outpost #1.

The eastern-most city is called Kernen. Everytime you step there a small army of 12 or so red dragons and a few dozen draconians comes out to meet you. If you beat them, you still can't enter the city. Instead the game tells you another patrol comes out to meet you and asks whether or not you will flee.

Looking over the manual, Death Knights of Krynn takes your characters to level 14. Meaning Dark Queen of Krynn will take your characters way over level 14. I find this interesting because in the original TSR campaign setting, levels were capped at 18 for all characters.

 

[Luzur]

hey guys btw, look at what i got a awhile ago:

Codex should open up a team game.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

hey guys btw, look at what i got a awhile ago:

Codex should open up a team game.

Count me in. I've never logged onto a Neverwinter Nights client, but I'd be willing to try if someone could set-up a game and explain what I would need to do to connect.

I just started DKOK and I'm a bit concerned. The death knights they send against you in the first battle seem to be immune to magic, so my fireballs and magic missiles did nothing. I can start having my magic-users memorize buffing spells, but there aren't that many in the Gold Box games besides the first level Enlarge spell, and the awesome Haste spell which has the unfortunate side effect of aging a character a year each time it is used. I haven't really gotten into the game yet and I'm already worried that my rear is going to get handed to me. Also, the game seems like it may be undead heavy, and I have a Cleric of Paladine instead of a Cleric of Majere. Live and learn.

I can't remember the last time a first encounter made me sweat the rest of the game. Time to grow a pair and press on.

 

[mondblut]

You can't set up a game. Without the AOL server, it is useless.

 

[octavius]

I just started DKOK and I'm a bit concerned. The death knights they send against you in the first battle seem to be immune to magic, so my fireballs and magic missiles did nothing. I can start having my magic-users memorize buffing spells, but there aren't that many in the Gold Box games besides the first level Enlarge spell, and the awesome Haste spell which has the unfortunate side effect of aging a character a year each time it is used. I haven't really gotten into the game yet and I'm already worried that my rear is going to get handed to me. Also, the game seems like it may be undead heavy, and I have a Cleric of Paladine instead of a Cleric of Majere. Live and learn.

I can't remember the last time a first encounter made me sweat the rest of the game. Time to grow a pair and press on.

You mean Skeletal Warriors, not Death Knights, right? They are nasty buggers indeed; can't be turned, have very high Magic Resistance, take half damage from sharp weapons and pack quite a punch.
The very best tactic against them IMO, is to use an Enlarged Kender Thief/Cleric with a magic Hoopak to backstab them. Also, blunt weapons + Enlarge for your fighters. Use your weaklings to set up the backstabs.
The Enlarge spell is my favourite first level spell; it has quite a long duration, so one casting can last for an entire dungeon if you don't use Search mode and your mage is high enough level.

 

[Luzur]

You can't set up a game. Without the AOL server, it is useless.

actually, there are a sort of a mod for this (or was, i am not sure it can be found anymore) that allowed local multi-player on a simulated "offline" server, but even if i manage to find that mod we will still have to be in the same house to play.

 

[mondblut]

You can't set up a game. Without the AOL server, it is useless.

actually, there are a sort of a mod for this (or was, i am not sure it can be found anymore) that allowed local multi-player on a simulated "offline" server, but even if i manage to find that mod we will still have to be in the same house to play.

Huh? Never heard of it.

There is a beta version with GM tools playable offline as a single-player game. There is no party (you are stuck with one character) and no saving the game, plus it's an older version without some areas added to NWN post-release. Perhaps that's what you mean.

I am pretty certain the proper retail version can't be run without AOL, ever. People wouldn't develop Forgotten World if they just could bring original NWN online by themselves (and going from local to online multiplayer is a trivial thing for a coder able to do an entire online game instead).

 

[WarHamster]

I just started DKOK and I'm a bit concerned. The death knights they send against you in the first battle seem to be immune to magic, so my fireballs and magic missiles did nothing. I can start having my magic-users memorize buffing spells, but there aren't that many in the Gold Box games besides the first level Enlarge spell, and the awesome Haste spell which has the unfortunate side effect of aging a character a year each time it is used. I haven't really gotten into the game yet and I'm already worried that my rear is going to get handed to me. Also, the game seems like it may be undead heavy, and I have a Cleric of Paladine instead of a Cleric of Majere. Live and learn.

Yeah, what Octavius said above. Remember to use maces, flails or other crushing weapons against those skelly warriors, unless you prefer to chip away at them at 2-5 pts. of damage per hit while they do 10-15 pts. to you (twice a round if you're "lucky"). As they have something like 60 HP, chipping away at them is not the best tactic ever. Magic is all but useless against them, so don't waste your fireballs on them. I remember having my one pure mage parked outside the combat, just twiddling his thumbs through most of the battles vs them. A fighter/mage fares much better against them, at least he can do some damage to those suckers.

But those Skelly Warriors aren't the most rage-inducing opponents in DKoK, IMO. The level draining undead are the biggest fuck you in the AD&D monsterama for sure. Yes, you can have a cleric cast Restore (or whatever it was called) to counteract the level draining, but at the point you encounter wights (etc.) in DKoK, you don't have a high enough level cleric to cast Restore. So, if you get level drained, tough luck buddy! Fortunately, for the most part, you can have your cleric(s) turn the level draining undead, but there is at least one fight I remember from DKoK, where the enemy gets initiative/surprise and there are something like 5 wights who get to try to do their evil stuff on you before your clerics (or anyone else) can react. To make matters worse, the party formation in that fight is such, that your rear row casters are the closest to the wights. Have fun! The first time I stumbled on that fight, I had a mage lose 3 levels in that surprise round. Reeeelooaaadd!

 

[Luzur]

Huh? Never heard of it.

There is a beta version with GM tools playable offline as a single-player game. There is no party (you are stuck with one character) and no saving the game, plus it's an older version without some areas added to NWN post-release. Perhaps that's what you mean.

I am pretty certain the proper retail version can't be run without AOL, ever. People wouldn't develop Forgotten World if they just could bring original NWN online by themselves (and going from local to online multiplayer is a trivial thing for a coder able to do an entire online game instead).

mayhaps it was that version that someone added local multiplayer too, the memories on it are hazy, but ive read discussions on it.

could even have been someones plans with the mod i remember.

 

[Severian Silk]

First-person step-based exploration requires a good memory, which I don't have. Too bad you can't patch the engine to display an overhead view instead (like KotC).

 

[octavius]

First-person step-based exploration requires a good memory, which I don't have. Too bad you can't patch the engine to display an overhead view instead (like KotC).

The Area View is overhead...

 

[Dorateen]

Except where they disabled Area View in some parts of the later Gold Box games, just to make those dungeons more stressful.

 

[octavius]

Except where they disabled Area View in some parts of the later Gold Box games, just to make those dungeons more fun and challenging.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[weirwood]

I may only have gotten lucky, but I seem to remember the Slow spell working on skeleton warriors, unlike most other stuff. Even if I'm wrong, Slow is also a great spell against level-draining undead, if you can't kill them outright with Fireballs.

Apart from that, I concur everything octavius said.

 

[Dorateen]

Except where they disabled Area View in some parts of the later Gold Box games, just to make those dungeons more fun and challenging.

Fixed that for ya.

Some of the most hilarious maps I've drawn were from the Gold Box games, in those locations without the Area view.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Just finished Death Knights of Krynn and I got to say it was awesome. I'll hit the negative comment first. The main campaign is a bit short, but the game let's you continue on afterwards and I only explored half the map by the end of the game. I didn't even know I was approaching the end since there were a lot more things to explore, but I decided to stop once I beat Lord Soth for the final time as my non-knight characters were all at level 14 anyway. The other reason I stopped exploring is because the outdoor wandering monsters get a bit too frequent, causing me to rage every few steps just as I thought I was getting somewhere. I never did find where this mad dwarf and his dungeon challenge was, nor did I ever finish rescuing the gnomish village since I couldn't get passed a sealed door with Knock or Bash (I'm thiefless still). There were a few other places I meant to check out and didn't, but I really am tired of all the stupid random encounters. Champions had some, too, but not this bad.

Now for the good stuff. This is by far the darkest and most mature of the SSI Gold Box games, when it comes to the writing. And yet as dark as it was to have betrayals, murder, undead children, and a demonic chicken coop that refused to be exorcised, the game avoided being a parody. As opposed to Dragon Age with its necromantic blood potions, blood splattered uniforms no one ever cleans even during romantic dialogue, and characters with stupid motivations. Bioware could take a few lessons from this much older game. And there was actually a tough dragon fight in this one with a beastie that had an AC of -11 along with 120 hit points! And breathe that killed my toughest character in one shot!

I will admit I had to reload a few times as my characters did fall to the odd level drain or instant death spells, but the enemies were very varied and a lot of them were immune to magic, forcing me to rely on buff spells more than damaging spells. That last encounter kicked my butt at first, but my characters mowed down the enemy when buffed with haste, enlarge spells, fire touch, prayer, bless, and protection from evil. My ranger held the left flank against some very tough bruisers all on his own with his high armor class and buffing himself with mirror image spells. He lasted two rounds without taking damage, then the rest of the party came in from the right flank and mopped up. Seriously, my ranger was awesome in this game because of the large amount of giant opponents, and now I have the mirror image trick to exploit, too. And thanks to octavius for convincing me to rely on Enlarge more heavily than I did in the past. For some reason I didn't realize that it had a duration measured in turns instead of rounds. It is indeed an awesome spell.

I can see why people think this is the best of the Gold Box games. Secret of the Silver Blades really damages the overall feel of the first Pool series, but Champions was a solid game and Death Knights was excellent.

Well, now unto The Dark Queen of Krynn. The last and final SSI Gold Box game on my to-play list...

 

[octavius]

Yeah, Death Knights is a great game, and probably the GB game I've played most times. But Dark Queen is even better, IMO. It is more linear and has a weaker story and takes place on a different continent, but it has the best encounter design of the GB games, with few random encounters and many hard, unique encounters, and is better balanced than Pools of Darkness, which ranged from "too easy" to "almost impossible".

I don't quite agree about the random encounters in Death Knights, though. You can often avoid the monsters, and if they are regular undead you can often just let your Cleric turn them.

Too bad you didn't explore and find all the side quests. The Dwarf would have gained you a Girdle of Giant Strength.
Did you find the Kuo-Toa ship? That was one of the most memorable side quest.

And why are you so against thieves? True, they become obsolete in Dark Queen, but they are extremely useful in both Champions and Death Knights. And it is a bit of a shame to never use the Kender's special abilities, IMO.