Official RPG Codex Discord Server

  1. Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
    Dismiss Notice

Star Control: Origins - Star Control reboot from Stardock

Discussion in 'General RPG Discussion' started by Dr Tomo, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. rusty_shackleford Arcane

    rusty_shackleford
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Messages:
    35,425
    the combat is shit
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    ^ Top  
  2. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    22,994
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    Hmm. My source is also official (Star Control II Role Playing Resource Guide), but I think I see the problem: The numbers from the wiki are probably from the 3DO version, while mine are probably from the MS-DOS version.

    Interesting if there's such a huge difference between the two versions.
     
    • Interesting Interesting x 1
    ^ Top  
  3. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    5,500
    Location:
    California
    It turns out loot inflation is the actual Path of Now and Forever.
     
    • Rage Rage x 1
    ^ Top  
  4. Elestan Educated

    Elestan
    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2016
    Messages:
    99
    The difference is that you are citing numbers for entire star systems, not individual planets.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    ^ Top  
  5. TheDiceMustRoll Game Analist

    TheDiceMustRoll
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    738
    Edit: I just want to add a few more things:

    The endgame of SCII involves a final conflict against a bunch of super enemies, basically you have to fight 6 UQ ships, I believe 3 of both kinds than then onto the Sa-Matra.

    In SC:O, you have to fight:

    - A Scryve Warship
    - Four other Warships
    - A final larger warship

    These "warship" fights are, for the most part fine, but they are very long, not very fun battles that can either be hilariously cheesed or be an extremely frustrating fight.

    Cheesing is good because my first time doing this I had a dozen or so of the infinite range ships(like the syndicate battlecruiser or the Ure Devastator) and could stay literally on the other side of the map and nuke them to nothingness while they slooooooowly began to advance towards me.

    Using the pay-for ships you get from alliances takes more skill, but it's generally very tough. They launch endless seeker attacks at close range, or bombard you with black holes at medium. The Scryve Warship has insane turning and it's strategy is "point death ray at you, sweep back and forth until dead."

    The final "encounter" is more of the same - you can cheese it from a distance, or you can play "holy fuck this is annoying" at medium or close range. Using Singularity nukes and the phasors mean the Vindicator is up to the task, but I don't think that Boss Battles were ever the strong suit of this game series.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  6. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    13,015
    Codex 2014
    https://www.stardock.com/games/article/493736/preview-star-control-origins---return-of-the-lexites

     
    • Brofist Brofist x 2
    ^ Top  
  7. TheDiceMustRoll Game Analist

    TheDiceMustRoll
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    738
    ^ Top  
  8. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    5,500
    Location:
    California
    Doesn't matter, Spielberg didn't trademark them. If anything, A.I. is infringing Star Control: Origins. :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  9. TheDiceMustRoll Game Analist

    TheDiceMustRoll
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2016
    Messages:
    738
    Oh no, don't worry, I'm not gettin' all political or anything. My days of caring about internet/legal/political drama are done.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
    • incline incline x 2
    • FAKE NEWS FAKE NEWS x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    ^ Top  
  10. The Game Analists Arcane

    The Game Analists
    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    132
    Brad Wardell has been discussing his plans/hopes for Star Control: Infinite and Eternal, on the discord. That's not a guaranteed name, just something he's a fan off apparently.

    - The most popular feature in SC:O is the empire-building(turning in powerful hyperdrives to Star Control HQ will cause humanity to spring up 3 colonies, which gives you an influence blob like the other races have and you also get special units I think)
    - The least popular feature is resource gathering. On resource gathering:
    "Yea, well, you know how I feela bout the whole planet lander mini game.
    I inherited that.
    And I feel it's the weakest part of the game. Collecting minerals wans't fun in SC2 either.
    Resource gathering is not fun imo."

    Brad Wardell has also said that he thinks that things will be "more established" and "resource gathering won't be the focus." Which also sounds interesting. I can speculate that "more established" means humanity has more than a single ship and kind of...uh, an empire, I guess?

    On top of that, he's mentioned that he thinks that planetary exploration would be more like "Divinity Original Sin II" and you would be sending people down in "away teams". X-Com was also cited.

    - He has not played, but has heard of, Stellar Tactics.

    Is Stardock gearing up to produce the best Star Trek Video Game possible? Will the challenge of Dukat be answered?
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Participation Award Participation Award x 1
    • Excited! Excited! x 1
    ^ Top  
  11. Grampy_Bone Arcane

    Grampy_Bone
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2016
    Messages:
    2,483
    Location:
    Wandering the world randomly in search of maps
    At this point who gives a shit anymore.

    In a few years one side is going to have a piece of paper saying "You were right" but both will have lawyer bills with many, many zeros on the end.

    The game came out and sold okay but didn't fire up the charts. C'est la vie.

    It's like watching a dollar auction in excruciating slow motion.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    • Balanced Balanced x 1
    ^ Top  
  12. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    22,994
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    :abyssgazer:

    One of the darkest points of Star Control as a franchise is the book Interbellum, written by the guy behind The Daily Pundit. Seriously, don't read it, you'll dearly miss the braincells that abandon you for doing so.

    It's so bad that I seriously question the sanity of anyone who'd think of writing another book tied to Star Control. Except... Dawn of the Singularity isn't a Star Control book. It's a book tied to the game Ashes of the Singularity, another Stardock product.

    A game about how the Lexites came into being, became self-aware and then promptly fucked the right off away from humanity.

    I'll have to say, it's a clever move from Stardock to use the lore from one game in another, especially considering the current lawsuits and all. We see right through it, of course, but still...

    To me this sounds like damage control, to cover up the fact that Stardock took an entertaining and integral aspect of Star Control 2... and screwed it up. Resource gathering in SC2 is more than just the mini-game, even though it's small and simple in scope and scale. It's an essential element of the exploration part of the game. If there's no resource gathering done by the player, then why have all those celestial bodies? Why bother letting the player fly to them? Star Control 3 answered that question by automating the resource gathering process (the player only needs to set it up and then come collect the resources later on) but any sense of exploration is lost as the game tells you where everything is. You're told about every system of importance, you're told what planets in each system hold something of interest. I can't recall a single point in SC3 where the player actually has to go out and look for something, it's all spoon-fed to them via quest markers.

    SC2 is about the player being The One Who Gets Things Done. SC3 is about the player being The One Who Makes The Decisions And Lets Others Get Things Done For Him. The difference between the two goes a long way towards explaining why one game is universally acclaimed while the other is universally panned. For extra credit, compare Master of Orion 1 and 2 with Master of Orion 3.

    I'll admit though, that SC2 would probably have been a better game if it had the option later on in the game to somewhat automate the resource gathering process. By the third act of the game you don't want to have to be constantly scanning planets to find valuable resources to fuel your spending habits.
     
    ^ Top  
  13. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    16,152
    You are mistaken. Damage Control is what stardick is doing to save his dud game.
     
    ^ Top  
  14. Incendax Augur

    Incendax
    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2010
    Messages:
    754
    I liked it, but mostly because it was fast. You either land and slurp shit up in under 10 seconds, or you nope the fuck out because it was satan’s butthole.

    Origins is sloooow. Slow because you get stuck on the landscape, slow because the environmental hazards are predictable and thus you wait and watch them, or just slow because there’s way more surface to cover.

    But I’m not saying keep it because I liked it in SC2. I think SC2 would have been better if you could trade information to other alien races besides the creamsicles... which would cause consequences.
     
    ^ Top  
  15. MRY Prestigious Gentleman Wormwood Studios Developer

    MRY
    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2012
    Messages:
    5,500
    Location:
    California
    As I wrote earlier in the thread:
    And:
    And:
    It looks like SC:O missed on both points. By making the landing sequence more elaborate, they made it slower and thus less fun and emphasized its artificiality because when you drive a buggy around a 3D rendered Super Mario Galaxy planet it feels absurd in a way that the resource gathering in SC2 didn't. With a lot of these classic games, the genius of their design was how they built gameplay that pushed the technical limits of the era and comported with the era's understanding of what was and wasn't fun. When you translate that design from 1992 to 2018, the intervening quarter century creates problems. The lander minigame simply doesn't work with modern graphics -- the more you try to make it like a "modern" game, the more it emphasizes that these worlds are empty, barren, static, etc. The best case scenario is No Man's Sky. But No Man's Sky turns a quick arcade experience into an endless slog -- it totally shifts the emphasis of the game away from space.

    Now they realize that they can't make resource gathering work so they're going to go with empire building instead. Then they will realize that empire build depersonalizes the game and destroys the entire fantasy of being one man commanding one ship against an insurmountable foe. It becomes a different story. At the end of the day, you realize that SC2's themes, narrative, and feel are all intertwined with its gameplay, and its gameplay is intertwined with 90s tech.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 4
    • Prestigious Prestigious x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    ^ Top  
  16. Norfleet Moderator

    Norfleet
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    10,396
    You mean ONE super enemy. The other enemies you fight are just the same enemies you've already fought. Ur-Quan Dreadnoughts and Marauders aren't super-enemies, they're the same enemies you've been fighting for most of the game to farm their wrecks for their money, and you were ready to thrash their asses the moment you picked up your first ally, cuz that Spathi ship completely beats the tar out of both flavors of Ur-Quans. Also, the Sa-Matra isn't tough at all and the Pkunk ship makes a complete mockery of its defenses.
     
    ^ Top  
  17. Jiggy Boobles TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™ Patron

    Jiggy Boobles
    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2010
    Messages:
    15,107
    Shadorwun: Hong Kong
    Ah yes. Good old B.U.T.T missiles.

    Actually the Spathi ships were lethal against everything EXCEPT the Ur-Quan because of their fighters.

    For those you need the Orz ships with the GO! GO! boarding marines.
     
    • :M :M x 2
    ^ Top  
  18. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    16,152
    I have seen people insist on fighting that Sa-Matra battle with a full set of Chmmr Avatars, and wonder why they got their arses whooped.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    ^ Top  
  19. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    16,152
    Ur-Quan can be sniped with the Mauler if you are good at long-range aiming. The Torch is also a good anti-Dreadnaught ship.
     
    ^ Top  
  20. Startropy Startropy Games Developer

    Startropy
    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    33
    Nah, I guess I'm also one of the few other people that liked the resource gathering too. It definitely added to the game's atmosphere, giving you a hands-on feeling of how hellscapish some planets can be. It can start to drag out in the latter part of the game but I still consider it an essential part of what made SC2 feel special.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    ^ Top  
  21. Unkillable Cat Prestigious Gentleman LEST WE FORGET Patron

    Unkillable Cat
    Joined:
    May 13, 2009
    Messages:
    22,994
    Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
    ANYTHING can be sniped with the Mauler if you're good enough at sniping, that's the whole point of the ship.

    The Torch is so OP it was actually banned in many SC tournaments back in the day, and probably still is if there are any serious SC tournies going on.

    One of the best 'skill-shots' I know of in SC2 is one-shotting a Chmmr Avatar with the Androsynth. The trick is to go into Comet form and aim for either 'armpit' of the Avatar so that the comet can't slip out. As long as the Androsynth has enough crew to survive the Zapsats for a second or two, this is a guaranteed Avatar kill. Very hard to pull off as both ships need to be aligned just right.
     
    • Brofist Brofist x 1
    ^ Top  
  22. Cael Dumbfuck! Dumbfuck

    Cael
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2017
    Messages:
    16,152
    Zip at the Avatar and turn into the ship as you approach it. The turn helps hold the Comet in the wingroot. By the time the turn is complete (i.e., you did a 180), the Avatar is dead. I used to do it all the time with the Comet, but I usually preface it with a mass of bubble as I zoom away. When the energy refills, that is when you turn into a comet and turn into the Avatar.

    Another good anti Ur-Quan ship is actually the Supox Blade. It is a nasty piece of work if you know how to use the strafing function well.
     
    ^ Top  
  23. LESS T_T Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    LESS T_T
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2012
    Messages:
    13,015
    Codex 2014


    https://www.stardock.com/games/arti...---part-2-return-of-the-lexites-for-star-cont

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2021
    • Brofist Brofist x 3
    ^ Top  
  24. T. Reich Arcane

    T. Reich
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2013
    Messages:
    2,682
    Location:
    not even close
    LEXites:
    lavish
    exhilarating
    xenial
     
    • incline incline x 1
    • Yes Yes x 1
    ^ Top  

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.