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I was talking about NMS dumboThe game doesn't have too much procgen it has too little.
I was talking about NMS dumboThe game doesn't have too much procgen it has too little.
Interesting take. I don't know if procgen tech can ever be good, I doubt it. But maybe now with the massive AI emergence it might actually be feasible to create half-decent procgen content. Or it's still too early.ProcGen can not replace actual content
The game doesn't have too much procgen it has too little. It doesn't require 17 studios across the world to copy paste a few generic dungeons around the galaxy.
All the development time and money went into making 'actual content.' That's why there's a unique questline in almost every system, why you can't walk into a city without the game barfing 13 quests into your journal, and why every companion has three novels worth of backstory they nag you with after every stop but can't figure out how to navigate a staircase.
There's a common experience with automation. You see a problem that requires tedious work and you try to write a program to fix it. But the boss doesn't care about the automation, he just wants the result, and he's willing to throw more people at the problem until it gets fixed. None of them are smart enough to solve the programming issue, but they can provide the raw button pushing labor to brute force the solution, and your goal of automation quickly gets thrown out the window. That's Bethesda.
Todd's big innovation over Daggerfall was to throw out the procgen tech and just do everything by hand, with the understanding that more content was better than good content, and it worked. They repeated the same idea with each game until Starfield showed the limits of this approach. If they had smart people iterating procgen techniques for 20 years, they might have been able to deliver a Starfield where every planet had the content of a full elder scrolls game, with fewer people actually working on it.
ground zeroes is an hour long, of course it's more polished. i beat GZ and loved it but that's a stupid comparisonFrankly, I'm baffled this game doesn't have a backlash on the same magnitude than Cyberpunk.
Everything in it is outdated and is absolutely shameful in 2023.
The AI is at least 20 years old delayed, even worse since Fear's AI was certainly better in all areas.
The environments are incredibly dull, empty and could be rendered on a PS3.
The gameplay is certainly awful and worse than half-life 1 but when this is your principal focus on a game, it's should be a death sentence.
The story is shit and makes no sense from an human point of view, nobody would call a complete stranger to fetch an artefact and enroll into an important mission.
The looting is mediocre, only rewards you get are standart weapons +% modifiers, same goes for the skills.
The graphics, lightning, shadows, water physics are at the very LEAST 20 years old delayed.
When Ground Zeroes released on the PS3 outmatch it in these categories, you know there is a problem.
The space combat is inferior in every regards compared to Rogue Squadron 2, a game released on Gamecube with a tiny budget.
Their engine is a massive POS and should be thrown into a dustbin.
400M$, this scam, lmao.
Only because they are obligated to.Cohh is what i call an honest shills. He said that Bethesda is sponsoring the first 2 h of his stream.
You can call them retarded, we don't mind around here.The AI is at least 20 years old delayed
Look at Kenshi. The whole world is hand made, but there's no story, no quests, and no voice acting. It was made by a very small team, and its insanely fun and addictive because the systems are complex, engaging, and rewarding. (The old buzzword for this was 'emergent' gameplay).I don't know if procgen tech can ever be good
People who make decisions in most large companies do not play games themselves. They watch movies though so they push games to be like movies.Look at Kenshi. The whole world is hand made, but there's no story, no quests, and no voice acting. It was made by a very small team, and its insanely fun and addictive because the systems are complex, engaging, and rewarding. (The old buzzword for this was 'emergent' gameplay).I don't know if procgen tech can ever be good
There's no reason why a bargain bin looking indie title made by one guy should be more fun to play than a $100 million AAA epic. Imagine Kenshi with Starfield's budget; instant greatest game ever made.
Consider Rimworld. In a few seconds the game generates a dozen factions, religions, large continents, multiple biomes, and dozens of settlements. It also has no story or voice acting, yet the gameplay is endless. Fight, trade conquer, survive, exterminate. Another one man project. Sure, the graphics look like shit, but that's where the AAA development muscle should be going. Not quests or voice acting or "muh story."
There is no problem with the tech, it already exists. It just needs smart people to take the right chances. Diablo was nothing more than Rogue with the rough edges sanded off and a coat of AAA paint, and look where that went.
There's no reason why a bargain bin looking indie title made by one guy should be more fun to play than a $100 million AAA epic. Imagine Kenshi with Starfield's budget; instant greatest game ever made.
All that travel time would serve to just prolong the boredom wouldn't it?This game is so fucking boring, if only you could actually travel to other planets manually at least it would feel like a fucking world.
that makes no sense, what do you think "warp" is? flying at sub-light is asinineThis game is so fucking boring, if only you could actually travel to other planets manually at least it would feel like a fucking world.
20 years of pretending Bugthesda games aren't garbage. It's habit at this point, both for the media and their fans.Frankly, I'm baffled this game doesn't have a backlash on the same magnitude than Cyberpunk.
Everything in it is outdated and is absolutely shameful in 2023.
The AI is at least 20 years old delayed, even worse since Fear's AI was certainly better in all areas.
The environments are incredibly dull, empty and could be rendered on a PS3.
The gameplay is certainly awful and worse than half-life 1 but when this is your principal focus on a game, it's should be a death sentence.
The story is shit and makes no sense from an human point of view, nobody would call a complete stranger to fetch an artefact and enroll into an important mission.
The looting is mediocre, only rewards you get are standart weapons +% modifiers, same goes for the skills.
The graphics, lightning, shadows, water physics are at the very LEAST 20 years old delayed.
When Ground Zeroes released on the PS3 outmatch it in these categories, you know there is a problem.
The space combat is inferior in every regards compared to Rogue Squadron 2, a game released on Gamecube with a tiny budget.
Their engine is a massive POS and should be thrown into a dustbin.
400M$, this scam, lmao.
All that travel time would serve to just prolong the boredom wouldn't it?This game is so fucking boring, if only you could actually travel to other planets manually at least it would feel like a fucking world.
You know, like in every other Bethesda sandbox...All that travel time would serve to just prolong the boredom wouldn't it?This game is so fucking boring, if only you could actually travel to other planets manually at least it would feel like a fucking world.
I think not because the travel time is where you start encountering stuff or even changing routes because you see something more interesting than your actual destination and you end up going someplace entirely different and thus having an actual adventure.
ProcGen can not replace actual content
The game doesn't have too much procgen it has too little. It doesn't require 17 studios across the world to copy paste a few generic dungeons around the galaxy.
All the development time and money went into making 'actual content.' That's why there's a unique questline in almost every system, why you can't walk into a city without the game barfing 13 quests into your journal, and why every companion has three novels worth of backstory they nag you with after every stop but can't figure out how to navigate a staircase.
There's a common experience with automation. You see a problem that requires tedious work and you try to write a program to fix it. But the boss doesn't care about the automation, he just wants the result, and he's willing to throw more people at the problem until it gets fixed. None of them are smart enough to solve the programming issue, but they can provide the raw button pushing labor to brute force the solution, and your goal of automation quickly gets thrown out the window. That's Bethesda.
Todd's big innovation over Daggerfall was to throw out the procgen tech and just do everything by hand, with the understanding that more content was better than good content, and it worked. They repeated the same idea with each game until Starfield showed the limits of this approach. If they had smart people iterating procgen techniques for 20 years, they might have been able to deliver a Starfield where every planet had the content of a full elder scrolls game, with fewer people actually working on it.
Eh, how did Diablo sell a shitzillion copies and create an entire subgenre?Going back to your point I don't believe Kenshi would have been that much better with more money.
In system travel doesn't use the grav drive though, neither mechanically (as in you don't need any power allocated to it to fly to another moon/planet and the jump prep sequence doesn't run) nor in the cutscene that plays (the ship flies off on main thrusters). Of course this whole thing is another example of Bethesda putting shit in and not thinking it through regarding consistency or logic. If ships can jump right to a planet's orbit from light years away, why not within system? Also the in-system travel is instantaneous and actual game time doesn't pass.that makes no sense, what do you think "warp" is? flying at sub-light is asinineThis game is so fucking boring, if only you could actually travel to other planets manually at least it would feel like a fucking world.
More likely they'll just blame procedural generation for a lot of the problems the game has, since the generations are half-baked and less complex than what Daggerfall did 27 years ago.That is one reason I am excited to see Bethesda moving back towards that direction with Starfield. I want to see more experimenting with it in future updates (mods if possible?), and future games. I am certainly willing to forgive some misfires along the way if it gets us higher quality procgen the next time around.
Frankly, I'm baffled this game doesn't have a backlash on the same magnitude than Cyberpunk.
Everything in it is outdated and is absolutely shameful in 2023.
The AI is at least 20 years old delayed, even worse since Fear's AI was certainly better in all areas.
The environments are incredibly dull, empty and could be rendered on a PS3.
The gameplay is certainly awful and worse than half-life 1 but when this is your principal focus on a game, it's should be a death sentence.
The story is shit and makes no sense from an human point of view, nobody would call a complete stranger to fetch an artefact and enroll into an important mission.
The looting is mediocre, only rewards you get are standart weapons +% modifiers, same goes for the skills.
The graphics, lightning, shadows, water physics are at the very LEAST 20 years old delayed.
When Ground Zeroes released on the PS3 outmatch it in these categories, you know there is a problem.
The space combat is inferior in every regards compared to Rogue Squadron 2, a game released on Gamecube with a tiny budget.
Their engine is a massive POS and should be thrown into a dustbin.
400M$, this scam, lmao.
Fake news. Provided you weren't a console sped and didn't have whatever hardware that ran into serious bugs/performance issues, 2077 was a better looking game with a much better (not saying much here) story, and far better (still not saying much) gameplay.This game is more fun than cuberpunk 2077 at launch.