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KickStarter Stoneshard - open world roguelike RPG - now available on Early Access

mediocrepoet

Philosoraptor in Residence
Patron
Joined
Sep 30, 2009
Messages
13,940
Location
Combatfag: Gold box / Pathfinder
Codex 2012 Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. MCA Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
I am really surprised at the level of hate this game is receiving, so I logged in just to set the record straight.

Stoneshard, even in its current early release incarnation, is one of my favorite RPGs of all time. The main complaints appear to be:
1) It doesn't have a complete main quest line
2) Infrequent content updates
However, it's more of a sandbox game and the basic gameplay loop is solid. I have about 105 hours logged in the game and re-install it every time there is a major content update, but we haven't had a major update in almost 2 years.

Take a look at this negative review from someone with 500 hours logged (https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198193977226/recommended/625960/)
The game is fantastic and the gameplay loop is enough to get a lot of players entranced into the game. The skills are great, the stats and weapons are balanced and the dungeon crawling is fun and engaging even though its a turn based game.

My biggest complaint is they need to add back in a more flexible save feature.

This doesn't really surprise me. When I started tooling around with it, I was quickly reminded in what I saw in it to begin with that made me back it. It's a far cry from some of the actual dumpster fires I've pitched money at that I'd recover if I could.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
8,055
This is really one of those situations where people are heated because there's a good game underneath all the drama and delays.

They need to finish it, and all those complaints will basically disappear. Easier said than done, of course.
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,504
This is really one of those situations where people are heated because there's a good game underneath all the drama and delays.

They need to finish it, and all those complaints will basically disappear. Easier said than done, of course.
Knowing how to manage your project is a skill. This is why I was so impressed by Battle Brothers' developers. These guys knew what was essential and what was "nice to have, but not so important right now".
 

Cogemesiter

Novice
Joined
May 1, 2024
Messages
75
I’ve been following this thread, and I’m wondering if perhaps ‘The Doors of Trithius’ is worth it vs Stoneshard even though both are early access, and as of now Stoneshard still looks like it has more content.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
16,371
This is really one of those situations where people are heated because there's a good game underneath all the drama and delays.

They need to finish it, and all those complaints will basically disappear. Easier said than done, of course.

Yup game is definitely unique and fun. It just needs to be finished. That being said idk why crafting is in the game, game would be much better if they would just focus on dungeon delving etc.
 

Trash Player

Augur
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
499
Knowing how to manage your project is a skill. This is why I was so impressed by Battle Brothers' developers. These guys knew what was essential and what was "nice to have, but not so important right now".
BB's dev basically got severe burnt out and had to push the game out of the door. They just had something that is solid enough to have an audience. Otherwise, they would have become another studio that overreached and lied forgotten. They are wiser than teams that fell prey to sunken cost fallacy and left the project in dev hell with unwanted drama to boot. But it is more like they took a sensible course after mismanagement and ended up being rewarded for it.
 

LizardWizard

Prophet
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
1,014
Knowing how to manage your project is a skill. This is why I was so impressed by Battle Brothers' developers. These guys knew what was essential and what was "nice to have, but not so important right now".
BB's dev basically got severe burnt out and had to push the game out of the door. They just had something that is solid enough to have an audience. Otherwise, they would have become another studio that overreached and lied forgotten. They are wiser than teams that fell prey to sunken cost fallacy and left the project in dev hell with unwanted drama to boot. But it is more like they took a sensible course after mismanagement and ended up being rewarded for it.

BB devs taking advantage of German subsidies if anything. It has nothing to do with what you're implying.
 
Unwanted

Cologno

Unwanted
Joined
Jan 3, 2024
Messages
293
Neither, quit ga
Knowing how to manage your project is a skill. This is why I was so impressed by Battle Brothers' developers. These guys knew what was essential and what was "nice to have, but not so important right now".
BB's dev basically got severe burnt out and had to push the game out of the door. They just had something that is solid enough to have an audience. Otherwise, they would have become another studio that overreached and lied forgotten. They are wiser than teams that fell prey to sunken cost fallacy and left the project in dev hell with unwanted drama to boot. But it is more like they took a sensible course after mismanagement and ended up being rewarded for it.

BB devs taking advantage of German subsidies if anything. It has nothing to do with what you're implying.
Exactly, they cucked to ESG money which implies they follow all the rules that go with it. Don't try to play it like some good thing.
 

Trash Player

Augur
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
499
Germany didn't even have any serious game subsidies back in 2017, nor is EGS a thing back then. These things are only in the picture later. They are taking the money for MENACE, not BB. I am talking about Overhype around BB's EA, thanks.
Were you people even following the development? Or do you get some sort of collective amnesia? It was a massive bummer when they announced no further development, no DLC and no official mod support due to burnout a few months after the end of EA. There were a lot of cut features regarding the more simulationist side of the game, like factions, economy and so. Everyone was lamenting the waste of potential then. The first paid content DLC only happened ~18 months later after some strong tail sales.
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,504
Were you people even following the development? Or do you get some sort of collective amnesia? It was a massive bummer when they announced no further development, no DLC and no official mod support due to burnout a few months after the end of EA.
I actually was - and quite close, too - and I don't recall any mentions of the alleged burnout.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
14,300
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
All Events > Stoneshard Events >

Devlog: Economy, Contracts, and Situations
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Hello everyone!

In today’s devlog, we’ll cover the remaining three major systems that will be a part of the upcoming Rags to Riches update: reworked Contracts, Economy, and Settlement Situations.

CONTRACTS
Let’s start with the Contract System: there’s a lot of sweeping changes to talk about, from the list of available contracts to numerous QoL improvements.

While reinventing contract types, we put a lot of effort into boosting their variety: for the most part, old contracts could be boiled down to killing a dungeon boss (and sometimes looting a quest item in the same room afterwards). In Rags to Riches, the vast majority of contracts will feature entirely new objectives, and the few legacy ones will be greatly expanded upon through additional mechanics.

0f7bcbfb67264441127277f80889fa7d63c21de3.png


For instance, Cursed Folios will now buff every Undead in the Crypt - the effect grows weaker with each destroyed Folio. Then there are Forbidden Grimoires which will possess a number of tricky effects, making their retrieval a rather unorthodox ordeal. Another good example would be the Catacombs’ “Source of Corruption” contract: before you can actually reach the defiled relic itself, you’ll first need to destroy a bunch of well-guarded altars…

a1e933170ecf68fea2c2e9522d2f956d88ff8adb.gif


- All contracts now have
consequences
. A failed contract is guaranteed to add a problematic modifier to the corresponding dungeon during its next respawn. A failure may also result in Negative Settlement Situations - we’ll take a closer look at those at the end of the devlog. The system works both ways though: a successfully completed contract will make the whole area safer, which in turn attracts foragers, pilgrims, and roaming traders.

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- Contracts will no longer stay available indefinitely, waiting for your character to accept them at his or her leisure. In Rags to Riches, contracts will be constantly rotated, emulating the efforts of other mercenaries. Any contracts you don’t accept will be either completed or failed in the background, resulting in the same consequences as if they were undertaken by you.

- Contract-related dialogues were significantly expanded with
many new options
, allowing you to better prepare for your expeditions. First of all, you’ll once again be allowed to choose from every available contract (if there’s more than one). Secondly, contract givers can now inform you about the dungeon’s size, any possible modifiers affecting it (such as the Crypts’ restless spirits or the Catacombs’s malign rituals) and hint at the type of miniboss you might encounter inside.


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New dialogue options will also include the ability to haggle for better payment, which will either decrease your Reputation reward or require you to complete the contract within a much shorter time frame. Other than that, you’ll be able to cancel an ongoing contract without having to wait for it to expire naturally. And once you make a name for yourself in the settlement, you’ll be eligible to request advance payment for your services - keep in mind though, failing a contract after accepting an advance will result in much higher Reputation penalties than usual.

ECONOMY
Let’s move onto the Economy: how will it change in Rags to Riches?

One of our main goals while working on the Economy was to make it much more dynamic, requiring players to always pay attention and adapt accordingly. To achieve this, we decided to introduce two new mechanics: Price Fluctuations and Price and Demand.

-
Fluctuations
are random shifts in selling and buying prices that can occur within a set range. This system is meant to reflect the fickleness of the market while also avoiding overly complex simulations - those would appear way too obscure and convoluted to anyone unfamiliar with their inner workings.

All in all, Price Fluctuations are expected to add an element of unpredictability to every trade interaction: upon arriving at a settlement, you might notice that local prices are surprisingly cheap, creating an opportunity to purchase more supplies than you originally planned - or vice versa.

-
Supply and Demand
make prices less static as well. However, instead of relying on randomness, they respond to your character’s actions and ongoing Settlement Situations. For instance, buying out an entire shipment of meds will result in every trader in the village raising medicine prices upon their next restock. The system may swing into the opposite direction too - dumping a bunch of trophy weapons onto the market will make the settlement’s traders offer much less gold for them in the future.

Some item categories will be exempt from this mechanic. First and foremost, this applies to Valuables, the price of which will always remain more or less the same, minus the random Price Fluctuations.

Eventually, Supply and Demand will balance themselves out. The amount of time needed for this depends on the degree of turmoil affecting the market: if the price of an item category changes drastically enough, it may require up to a couple weeks to return to its original value.

- NPCs now boast reworked
trade settings
, which will allow us to adjust their preferences with more flexibility and add features that haven’t been possible within the old system. For example, some traders will replenish only a portion of their goods rather than their entire stock, others might only purchase items of specific quality, origins, or Durability, sell damaged equipment, and so on.

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ecad323d2da6d098318b4a98c75248b44c8ea437.png


Traders were also given
additional hovers
that should make it easier to trace the finer nuances of the updated Economy without relying on trial and error: you’ll have an option to see what item categories each trader is interested in, what prices they’re willing to offer for them, and when to expect their next restock.

c9ef0ac91906bd22fafdbabc2e00e620c44a021f.png

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- A special role in the updated Economy is delegated to numerous
Commodities
that are produced in industry-oriented village Outskirts. Different settlements will have varying interest in wine, grain, charcoal, salt, cider, and timber, allowing business-savvy players to profit from selling them where they’re needed the most.

SITUATIONS
And now for the closing section of today’s devlog - it’s time to talk about Settlement Situations, which has already been mentioned multiple times while listing changes to the Contract System and Economy. Situations are designed to liven up already existing villages and provide players with new opportunities and challenges.

5ec536d609e6385dcfde9f57b8d22a678a39c011.png


All situations are split between the following categories:
Positive, Neutral, and Negative

As suggested by their name, Positive Situations are centered around various boons and new opportunities. Neutral ones come with both beneficial and detrimental effects. And Negative Situations mostly harm the affected settlement and lead to the emergence of Negative Economical Situations.


c8cd6c258859687ab736a37f7b20a639e3631652.png


Each Situation comes with its own special effects, often adding new NPCs as well as altering some of the existing speech and dialogue lines. In total, Rags to Riches will feature 12 Situations: 9 main ones and 3 focused around economy.

Positive Situations:


cf8efbe26eccb42c7074d99ef77ede76926cd604.gif


-
“Fair”
is organized by traveling merchants, who offer a large selection of goods for affordable prices.

-
“Rut”
will repopulate all dens around the settlement, increasing animal spawn rates, and attracting hunters, who are always partial to making a trade.

-
“Bloom”
greatly boosts the amount of plants and mushrooms in the area while also increasing the demand both for them and medical items. The village itself gets a visit from a group of peasant foragers, who’ll gladly sell any rare plants they’ve collected.[/list]

Neutral Situations:

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-
“Competition”
stems from the presence of rival mercenaries in the village. It reduces the number of available contracts, adds negative modifiers to the remaining ones, and narrows the time window for their completion. On the upside, these high difficulty contracts will net you a much bigger reward.

-
“Pilgrimage”
is tied to a group of monks who wander between the holy sites of Aldor. They’re capable of granting a lengthy blessing to your character and boost the reputation gain for completing Crypt and Catacomb contracts. At the same time, they put a noticeable strain on local food and medicine prices.

-
“Reinforcements”
signify the arrival of additional guards. This Situation reduces the number of enemies and ambushes around the settlement while also increasing the price of food and alcohol. To offset this, you’ll be able to earn some Reputation simply by killing any remaining enemies around the village.[/list]

And finally,
Negative Situations
: they serve as a possible outcome of failed contracts, when dungeon-dwelling brigands and cultists are allowed to run amok.

- Failing or ignoring Bastion contracts may lead to
“Dangerous Roads”
, increasing the chance of ambush in the area and limiting the local traders’ stock.

- When left unchecked, necromancers might unleash
“Nightmares”
upon the area, reducing the effectiveness of sleep as well as preventing it from granting Vigor or replenishing Morale and Sanity.

- Left to their own devices, Catacomb cultists may eventually begin spreading
“Pestilence”
, poisoning plants, animals, and people in and around the nearby settlement.

d179248b5f1b6cd3bcf76d6f5c96646e1967bd10.gif


Once the rumors about a settlement’s misfortune (and Negative Situations besetting it) become too egregious to ignore, it will start getting fewer visits from supply caravans, which leads to the emergence of gradually deteriorating
Negative Economical Situations
that may further damage the local traders’ stock size and significantly increase their selling prices.

519a12b3bed483a5eb63026839b6fc2ae80ac888.png


Positive and Neutral Situations can only exist as single instances, lasting for a few days before potentially reappearing in another village. Negative Situations, on the other hand, won’t go away by themselves, although their effect can still be easily countered: all you need to do is to complete a contract tied to the corresponding dungeon (or wait for someone else to handle it for you). And once that dungeon is cleared out, it won’t take long for the settlement to return to normal.

============================================

That’s all for now. This concludes the final devlog dedicated to Rags to Riches’ major additions - the next one will showcase all the work we’ve done over the last year (including a number of previously unannounced features and improvements) and reveal the update’s release date!

Until next time!
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
14,016
Having mission consequences happen whether or not you do the missions seems... not great to me. I get the idea for simulationist purposes, but it seems to undermine the player agency and reason to do missions in the first place. Seems kinda weird that you'd get the "reward" or "penalty" regardless for just time passing.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,962
Is this a proper game yet? Last time I looked it was basically just beating up random enemies in hopes of getting slightly better random loot and maybe getting strong enough to fight a troll or something? Does it have endings or at least big trophy type challenges to go after? How much unique content is there? Is the skill tree interesting or a bunch of +5% to damage with swords type crap?
 

Fedora Master

STOP POSTING
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Jun 28, 2017
Messages
32,313
Having mission consequences happen whether or not you do the missions seems... not great to me. I get the idea for simulationist purposes, but it seems to undermine the player agency and reason to do missions in the first place. Seems kinda weird that you'd get the "reward" or "penalty" regardless for just time passing.
More artificial difficulty tied to RNG because that's good game design
 

Serus

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
7,005
Location
Small but great planet of Potatohole
Having mission consequences happen whether or not you do the missions seems... not great to me. I get the idea for simulationist purposes, but it seems to undermine the player agency and reason to do missions in the first place. Seems kinda weird that you'd get the "reward" or "penalty" regardless for just time passing.
But if you do a mission yourself the success is dependent on your actions. If not the result is random. How is that undermining player's agency? Or did I get it wrong?
 

Harthwain

Arcane
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
5,504
But if you do a mission yourself the success is dependent on your actions. If not the result is random. How is that undermining player's agency? Or did I get it wrong?
You're right. You get the reward and there will be no negative consequences for the world as a result of a "failed" quest (Negative Settlement Situations, for example).
 

Salvo

Arcane
Joined
Mar 6, 2017
Messages
1,416
Supply and demand and price fluctuation seem like an extra way to punish the player, unless goods somehow become cheaper which doesnt seem like the case
 

PlayerEmers

Educated
Joined
Sep 15, 2023
Messages
387
Location
Brazil
on concept, the idea of events happening without player input might sound good as in "the world is alive and npcs and ingame systems can act and react organically between themselves"

it should be great addition to simulation games or games that try reaching peak levels of immersion and realism

but is it worth it? how good it is to go for a hyper realistic or in-depth simulation if you have the potential to make players feel useless, like they dont have control or punish them "for no reasson" because something ingame happened on its own giving the player bad events?

personally i can respect this vision of a world that does not require playet input all the time, but this is something that is extremely easy to fuck up and piss people off
 

thesecret1

Arcane
Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
6,820
Battle Brothers already uses this system - negative shit gets applied to settlements at random, providing missions that the player can undertake to remove said shit. If the player ignores it, the settlement will resolve the issue on its own, eventually.
 

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