KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

[hajro]

Thanks for the money you cucks

 

[conan_edw]

neither this or SS3 were going to top Prey anyway. I wonder what will they do since they have to deliver something because they have the people money

 

[Alienman]

Well, at least we will get some drama. 1 million dollar worth of drama.

 

[Pika-Cthulhu]

Thank the artists for the wonderful ideas, have them put them into a folder and suggest a future title, then whip them until they get back on track.

 

[Perkel]

I gotta say it is the best thing i have read in a looong while.

That unity demo i played showed that SS1 takes no shit. It doesn't need any radical changes, it oozed with atmosphere. IT needs some simple changes like reduction a bit of enemies around to make it only a little less shooter like (but hey you can make different difficulty and make it completely classik), improve UI, inventory etc. Outside of that you don't need to change anything other than graphic.

I think Shadow of The Colossus remaster by Blupoint could be the factor in that decision.

For people not knowing, Bluepoint recently released Shadow of The Colossus remaster but this time it was not "remaster" but remaster in a sense that they remade graphics and kept almost all other things EXACTLY the same. There are some slight mechanical changes mostly about controls but overall it is same game just with better graphics.

And it sold. A LOT. In fact more than original PS2 release.

And it is not imo wrong way for them to make business. There are shitload of really good games that just need graphical update and they would be still fucking amazing and new people who never even lived back then could try and play them.
With their SS1 demo they did that even before Bluepoint started project.

 

[Silva]

There are shitload of really good games that just need graphical update and they would be still fucking amazing and new people who never even lived back then could try and play them

Just gimme a Darklands remake, then.

 

[MuscleSpark]

There are shitload of really good games that just need graphical update and they would be still fucking amazing and new people who never even lived back then could try and play them

Just gimme a Darklands remake, then.

That's a weird way of spelling Ultima Underworld.

 

[RoSoDude]

IT needs some simple changes like reduction a bit of enemies around to make it only a little less shooter like (but hey you can make different difficulty and make it completely classik), improve UI, inventory etc. Outside of that you don't need to change anything other than graphic

No, no, and no. Abundant (and respawning) enemies are necessary to maintain tension and enforce resource scarcity. The original difficulty sliders need to be dumped or at least heavily reworked (turning off enemy behaviors entirely? No audio logs and unlocked doors? Puzzles and cyberspace sequences solve on frob? WTF?). Many game systems and tools need tweaking and rebalancing, even while preserving the original design intent. We're not talking about a source port where they can just buff up the graphics (though a source port is still apparently in the pipeline to replace the Enhanced Edition on Steam), they're recreating the game in a new engine, which requires them to completely rebuild the game systems. There's very little copypasting to be done here.

I think hewing close to the original design is a much safer bet than what they were shooting for, but that doesn't mean they should do so idly. It'd be nice, for example, if 90% of enemies did more than sit in place and shoot at you with hitscan weapons, or if the Laser Rapier and Assault Rifle weren't the premium mutant killers and cyborg dismantlers voiding other weapon types, or if there was any sort of cost associated with constantly dying and being resurrected in a Cyborg Conversion Chamber... you get my point. System Shock 1 still holds up very well, but there are still plenty of ways to improve it in subtle and faithful ways.

Also, glad I kept to my rule of never supporting anything on Kickscammer. I've done indie crowdfund for stuff before, but only when the product is already made and the funding is for finalization, production, and distribution. I'm not paying money for your cool concept.

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[TheRedSnifit]

No, no, and no. Abundant (and respawning) enemies are necessary to maintain tension and enforce resource scarcity. The original difficulty sliders need to be dumped or at least heavily reworked (turning off enemy behaviors entirely? No audio logs and unlocked doors? Puzzles and cyberspace sequences solve on frob? WTF?). Many game systems and tools need tweaking and rebalancing, even while preserving the original design intent. We're not talking about a source port where they can just buff up the graphics (though a source port is still apparently in the pipeline to replace the Enhanced Edition on Steam), they're recreating the game in a new engine, which requires them to completely rebuild the game systems. There's very little copypasting to be done here.

I think hewing close to the original design is a much safer bet than what they were shooting for, but that doesn't mean they should do so idly. It'd be nice, for example, if 90% of enemies did more than sit in place and shoot at you with hitscan weapons, or if the Laser Rapier and Assault Rifle weren't the premium mutant killers and cyborg dismantlers voiding other weapon types, or if there was any sort of cost associated with constantly dying and being resurrected in a Cyborg Conversion Chamber... you get my point. System Shock 1 still holds up very well, but there are still plenty of ways to improve it in subtle and faithful ways.

Also, glad I kept to my rule of never supporting anything on Kickscammer. I've done indie crowdfund for stuff before, but only when the product is already made and the funding is for finalization, production, and distribution. I'm not paying money for your cool concept.

I don't really think that resource scarcity was ever a core part of the original game. Nor do I really think the difficulty slider is bad, after I discovered the glory of mouselook I usually just put the enemy difficulty to minimum because the controls were suddenly awful and stupid (and then the mouselook mod came out, but it broke the cyberspace controls so I'd turn that to minimum in turn). I'm also not a fan of penalties for using the regen chambers, because 1) I think the main fun of the game was finding the most efficient way of navigating the mazes, which regen played a part in, and 2) it implies something deeper that I don't really think belongs in the game (eg. the nanites in SS2).

Beyond that you're right. SS1 really needs a lot of cleaning up beyond improving the textures and UI.

 

[Roguey]

No wonder Avellone removed this from his twitter bio. Being polite with that "I haven't needed to work on any milestones for them for a while. Also, I occasionally shuffle projects around depending on what stage they're at, too"

 

[Abu Antar]

 

[Misco Jones]

My condolences to the backers.

 

[Ash]

I gotta say it is the best thing i have read in a looong while.

That unity demo i played showed that SS1 takes no shit. It doesn't need any radical changes, it oozed with atmosphere. IT needs some simple changes like reduction a bit of enemies around to make it only a little less shooter like (but hey you can make different difficulty and make it completely classik), improve UI, inventory etc. Outside of that you don't need to change anything other than graphic.

I think Shadow of The Colossus remaster by Blupoint could be the factor in that decision.

For people not knowing, Bluepoint recently released Shadow of The Colossus remaster but this time it was not "remaster" but remaster in a sense that they remade graphics and kept almost all other things EXACTLY the same. There are some slight mechanical changes mostly about controls but overall it is same game just with better graphics.

And it sold. A LOT. In fact more than original PS2 release.

And it is not imo wrong way for them to make business. There are shitload of really good games that just need graphical update and they would be still fucking amazing and new people who never even lived back then could try and play them.
With their SS1 demo they did that even before Bluepoint started project.

Oh fuck off with this gay shit.

Shadow of the Colossus is no metric because its fans already don't give a shit about good gameplay anyway.
Shock 1 could easily be improved with gameplay enhancements. Heck, one was already done by fans/remaster and that was mouselook. They just have to be actual intelligent enhancements and also not turn the game into something it's not in principle.

 

[sullynathan]

thought these guys we're also working on SS3.

 

[skacky]

As far as I know Night Dive owns the franchise now, but SS3 is a separate project entirely and is being made by Otherside.

 

[Latelistener]

Maybe they had some disagreements with investors on the side.

 

[Fairfax]

No wonder Avellone removed this from his twitter bio. Being polite with that "I haven't needed to work on any milestones for them for a while. Also, I occasionally shuffle projects around depending on what stage they're at, too"

He actually didn't know.

 

[thesheeep]

Also, glad I kept to my rule of never supporting anything on Kickscammer. I've done indie crowdfund for stuff before, but only when the product is already made and the funding is for finalization, production, and distribution. I'm not paying money for your cool concept.

Usually, I'd agree.
But in this case, it was a remake. Take the old, put it to a new engine, done. Shouldn't be too difficult.
I'd say it was definitely a safer bet than "I have this cool idea".

Of course, you still have to have capable leadership, and that failed in this case.

Too bad, really.
And whoever really believes this will still be done is fabulously optimistic

.

 

[Volrath]

Shoulda just put me in charge of 20 nerds and incline would be on the horizon.

In all seriousness, this is an interesting turn of events. On the one hand, gotta respect a man that owns up to his mistakes, and bonus points for seeing them BEFORE finishing and releasing the game. On the other, how'd you let get things so bad in the first place? Well, you can't know without having walked in his shoes I guess.

Don't let all your silly backers down now!

The only thing this incompetent piece of shit owned up to was running out of money.

 

[Latelistener]

I've heard... things about him.

Didn't like the guy the moment I saw him.

 

[Cross]

Maybe we were too successful. Maybe we lost our focus. The vision began to change. We moved from a Remaster to a completely new game. We shifted engines from Unity to Unreal, a choice that we don’t regret and one that has worked out for us. With the switch we began envisioning doing more, but straying from the core concepts of the original title.

As our concept grew and as our team changed, so did the scope of what we were doing and with that the budget for the game. As the budget grew, we began a long series of conversations with potential publishing partners. The more that we worked on the game, the more that we wanted to do, and the further we got from the original concepts that made System Shock so great.

Ultimately the responsibility for the decisions rests with me. As the CEO and founder of Nightdive Studios, a company that was built on the restoration of the System Shock franchise, I let things get out of control. I can tell you that I did it for all the right reasons, that I was totally committed to making a great game, but it has become clear to me that we took the wrong path, that we turned our backs on the very people who made this possible, our Kickstarter backers.

"We tried to make the remaster a completely different game to cater to a wider audience (i.e. the BioShock crowd), but we were incompetent and ran out of the money needed to do that."

 

[Morkar Left]

neither this or SS3 were going to top Prey anyway. I wonder what will they do since they have to deliver something because they have the people money

Did you ever heard of Star Citizen?

 

[ShaggyMoose]

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2115044

Well... I am not exactly holding my breath for this to arrive, but still. Sounds a bit of a shit development.

 

[ShaggyMoose]

Please, no more Unity games. Jesus fuck. For the loving ever god of death.

Sounds like they ported to Unreal 4 already?