The Eye of the Beholder Thread

[KeighnMcDeath]

I take a stab and say the disintegration field area. I think that existed or did I get destroyed by a beholder?

 

[Rincewind]

What do you mean with "Modern Sci-fi" ?

Have you played the second game? All those lasers and stuff in the temple, polished marble (or metal?) everywhere, etc. It just didn't feel very medieval.

Btw, I did transfer my party from 1, and I even dropped the overpowered loot in the foyer of the temple. Some of the fights were challenging, but I did not find them impossibly hard. It was a good challenge to find the correct strategy with the different enemy types. Also, I only had to use a walkthrough maybe two or three times for some of the puzzles.

 

[Eisen]

What do you mean with "Modern Sci-fi" ?

Have you played the second game? All those lasers and stuff in the temple, polished marble (or metal?) everywhere, etc. It just didn't feel very medieval.

Yeah, when i played, i saw these as "Fantasy"

 

[Rincewind]

What do you mean with "Modern Sci-fi" ?

Have you played the second game? All those lasers and stuff in the temple, polished marble (or metal?) everywhere, etc. It just didn't feel very medieval.

Yeah, when i played, i saw these as "Fantasy"

Well yeah, that's true, but I guess I just prefer dark dilapidated temple ruins and dungeons

 

[Unkillable Cat]

"Modern sci-fi"?

I've been involved with these games for over 30 years, and no one has ever accused any of the games of having "modern sci-fi" in them... and this is said when the third game literally has robot scorpions in it!

"All those lasers" - it's a late-game puzzle involving putting orbs of fire into slots so that their energy is concentrated onto one point. Once encountered it should only take a few minutes to resolve it, and maybe twice that long for the more dim-witted players to work things out.

Considering Dran's character, it is only sensible that his living quarters would look swank - and they do. They don't look nothing out of sci-fi, though.

EotB2 does exactly what's expected of a sequel - bring in more of the same, but make it more challenging. It actually breaks the mold of the series by forcing players to do things in only the one order, and some of the puzzles they put in there are nasty to figure out. EotB1 has several paths towards victory, and EotB3 has a whole optional dungeon for those looking for a real challenge.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I beat EoB for the GBA about a week after starting this thread. I loved it, but apparently the critics at the time(Yeah, they also sucked back then too) absolutely hated it.

https://www.metacritic.com/game/dungeons-and-dragons-eye-of-the-beholder/

The critic score average is 57%. The user score is 7.7.

The Nintendo Power review is particularly retarded and shows zero understanding of the blobber genre or the original Eye of the Beholder, bitching about how this game didn't use a 3D engine(on the GBA, no less). It's almost as though they didn't bother to look up the game being remade here. Sure, the GBA did have a few 3D games, but what would be the point if you're making Eye of the Beholder for the GameBoy Advance? You're still moving in cardinal directions, one square at a time. Other than being able to do lighting tricks, which you could do in a 2D blobber engine to roughly the same degree given the ARM7 processor, I can't see a legitimate reason to spend the time to make a 3D engine for the GBA for this type of game.

 

[Eisen]

EotB1 has several paths towards victory

I like this design, shame i don't know any game that does it

 

[Rincewind]

I've been involved with these games for over 30 years, and no one has ever accused any of the games of having "modern sci-fi" in them... and this is said when the third game literally has robot scorpions in it!

First time for everything?

To me it's a "sci-fi" feeling.

I just didn't enjoy those polished looking environments is all. Like everything, it's subjective.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

EotB1 has several paths towards victory

I like this design, shame i don't know any game that does it

EotB1's brilliance lies in the fact that once you clear the sewers and move on past the Dwarven encampment, you can literally stumble through the rest of the game, right to Xanathar's doorstep, and miss out on lots of content in the process. There's no intended path to take.

There are a few games can pull off their versions of that. Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss is a good example. You start right at the entrance to the abyss, and all you have to do is kill the evil wizard, gather the eight talismans and use them to avert a catastrophe. Everything else is optional (even saving the princess!) and can be done in any order, save for a few things that can only be done after killing the evil wizard. The only bottleneck in the game's level design is the evil wizard's lair - you have to go through there at some point (and the evil wizard) to reach the endgame content.

Compare this to Ultima Underworld 2. It's on-rails the entire time, with only the illusion of choice being given when you can visit more than one new world as your adventure progresses.

Another example is Ultima 7 (Part 1). You start confined within a town which serves as both a tutorial-section and copy protection, but once you're 'released' you're free to travel the land to your heart's content and resolve the main quest in any order as you see fit, which involves finding the three blackrock pieces, Rudyom's wand and taking them to the Black Gate to destroy it.

Compare that then to Ultima 7 (Part 2), where you're constantly confined to certain parts of the land while forced to resolve what often appear to be banal quests and tasks. IIRC you're done with more than half of the game before you're given real freedom of travel of the land.

 

[BruceVC]

I am playing EoB as the first game since I recently bought all the Gold Box sets on Steam

I played EoB when it was first released for PC back in 1992 and I still remember some of the puzzles like the pressure plates

I am using the All-seeing Eye automap which makes a big difference to exploration and completing levels

But Im enjoying it and Im getting use to the mechanics. Its early days and Im only on level 2

 

[Rincewind]

I am using the All-seeing Eye automap which makes a big difference to exploration and completing levels

Don't do that. Yes it makes a big difference—it trivialises the exploration and mapping aspects of the game...

Map it manually. Better yet, use my tool (check my signature).

 

[BruceVC]

I am using the All-seeing Eye automap which makes a big difference to exploration and completing levels

Don't do that. Yes it makes a big difference—it trivialises the exploration and mapping aspects of the game...

Map it manually. Better yet, use my tool (check my signature).

Yes I have followed the numerous debates on Codex around the sense of achievement and accomplishment from making manual maps similar to how gamers use to do it

But its not my strong point and I dont really want to spend the time, I have loads of older games to get through so automapping is just convenient. Im still experiencing the fun of exploration and where to progress, its not obvious

And I do know about your tool, I read that thread as well so I will definitely consider it. But this is literally the first time I have played this type of CRPG from that era in over 30 years and Im just absorbing basic mechanics and want to keep it simple and All-Seeing eye is built-in

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Did anyone patch in the ending. Glad I finished it first on Amiga.

 

[Rincewind]

Did anyone patch in the ending. Glad I finished it first on Amiga.

Oh yeah, I very much recommend playing the Amiga version to anyone. Either the original, of the AGA remake.

 

[Rincewind]

But its not my strong point and I dont really want to spend the time, I have loads of older games to get through so automapping is just convenient.

Yeah if you really don't like mapping, it's a bit pointless to force yourself to do it. I love mapping so obviously I'm biased.

Using an automapper probably also cuts the time required to complete the game by 30-40%.

It's still better than just using some maps from the hintbooks or magazines, like some kids did back in the day.

 

[Glop_dweller]

Did anyone patch in the ending. Glad I finished it first on Amiga.

I was honestly shocked that GoG did not do this when they released it.

Given that it's the end, how hard could it be? (...not very, and if it was too hard for them, then they could have run a Bink video of it in the batch script after the game stopped.)

 

[DaveO]

I find the first one in the series a good dungeon delver blobber type game. Sure the loot is high if you carry it over to EotB2, but this is SSI we are talking about so they encourage importing parties and obliterating enemies with "overpowered" loot or high-level characters.

 

[Fonzman]

Last year on my 45th birthday I played and finished the C64 remake (on emulator). So nostalgic and super fun! A really impressive port. I can confirm it includes everything, even the Amiga end sequence.
Additionally, when playing on a C128 (real or emulator) you can have dual screen support with an auto map on the second screen! Really incredible work!

As it was so much fun playing this over 30 years since the last time, this year I finished the SegaCD version.

Probably making this an annual habit now
Next year will be either SNES or PC-98…

 

[BruceVC]

I completed EoB1 after about 45 hours, it was a great experience and well worth playing

So a couple of comments

An Automap feature is a MUST for your average gamer if you serious about completing the game, of course you can make maps manually. A map is critical to completing levels for several reasons that include you find levers and buttons that sometimes open doors or hidden walls that aren't always in the vicinity of where you are but with the automap you can see immediately what a button does

I loved how the game is non-linear and you sometimes find keys in different places that you decide what you want to unlock and then you can progress as you want and I didnt explore every level

The " fast travel " was a brilliant and well done feature. It makes exploration for the stone items worthwhile but its not easy to teleport unless you find specific portals

I enjoyed the overall combat mechanics, simple but still entertaining

I had an interesting final battle with Xanathar, initially he decimated me after 3-4 rounds of combat with death spells and fireballs. Then I read some combat tips and I had the Wand of Silivias. But it didnt seem to work where you supposed to push Xanathar back to the spike trap so I adopted my own strategy. I ran to the room with the spike trap and literally fought him by running around the room, attacking him and avoiding his frontal spells. It was hard but eventually effective. I nearly had a crisis because I used a save game when he was down to 50% of health but then my front line fighters got killed and I accidently saved instead of restoring

And because you only have 1 save game and load game that meant I was stuck with a party of 3 dead party members and these were the only people who could harm Xanathar. But I ran away and luckily my Cleric was still alive and I had 2 Raise Dead scrolls so I used that to resurrect my fighters, heal and return to the battle and I was able to win and defeat the diabolical Xanathar

I am now playing EoB2 and I decided to import my previous party, I have just started and already I can see some improvements like how magical items are identified and multiple save games. Very appreciated change to EoB1

If someone had to ask me " why should I play such an old game like EoB1 when there are all these amazing new games with beautiful graphics and modern features "

My answer would be these types of classic games capture the excitement and ambience of dungeon exploration better than any modern game and they always will. Modern games are great but if you want to experience the true thrill of classic D&D exploration you wont find a better way of doing it than from games like EoB

And finally it gets a solid 70/100 on the globally respected " BruceVC game rating system "

 

[Rincewind]

My answer would be these types of classic games capture the excitement and ambience of dungeon exploration better than any modern game and they always will. Modern games are great but if you want to experience the true thrill of classic D&D exploration you wont find a better way of doing it than from games like EoB

Exactly my thoughts

Now, if only you played it without an auto-mapper... But ok, some people just don't like mapping much, I get it. I'm just glad you played it. I'd rather people play it with an auto-mapper than to not play it at all.

You can certainly create multiple save slots "manually" by making copies of EOBSAVE.DAT or whatever it's called.

Really curious what you will think of EoB II and how would you rate it compared to the first game.

Tip: you might wanna drop all the overpowered loot in the atrium if you like a challenge because if you have collected all the best weapons and items in the first game, that would kill the excitement of equipment upgrades in the second game as EoB I has the best loot. However, you might wanna bring the EoB I loot over into the third game.

 

[BruceVC]

My answer would be these types of classic games capture the excitement and ambience of dungeon exploration better than any modern game and they always will. Modern games are great but if you want to experience the true thrill of classic D&D exploration you wont find a better way of doing it than from games like EoB

Exactly my thoughts

Now, if only you played it without an auto-mapper... But ok, some people just don't like mapping much, I get it. I'm just glad you played it. I'd rather people play it with an auto-mapper than to not play it at all.

You can certainly create multiple save slots "manually" by making copies of EOBSAVE.DAT or whatever it's called.

Really curious what you will think of EoB II and how would you rate it compared to the first game.

Tip: you might wanna drop all the overpowered loot in the atrium if you like a challenge because if you have collected all the best weapons and items in the first game, that would kill the excitement of equipment upgrades in the second game as EoB I has the best loot. However, you might wanna bring the EoB I loot over into the third game.

Oh, I didnt even think about using the EOBDATA.sav as multiple copies. That would work, its just not an elegant built-in solution

I can see how much fun and achievement using manual maps is and must have been, I can really imagine the sense of achievement when your maps come together. But as I mentioned I have lots of these classic games to get through which include the whole Wizardry series, Ultima, M&M and most of the Gold Box games so apart from the time factor I am terrible at manually drawing so I guarantee you my maps wouldnt align with existing level exits above or below

I will provide further updates on my EoB2 journey

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

How many of you played another party after first play through? Or a couple extra play throughs? I'd just have multiple installs named differently and cycle through them. Once i had 10 installs on dos and would roll a d10 to see which game i would play. Still it is odd I never finished EOB3 and instead went to play Dungeon Hack forever (later I swapped to Anvil of Dawn).

 

[Glop_dweller]

I just swapped out different sav-game files for the first one.

 

[Rincewind]

How many of you played another party after first play through? Or a couple extra play throughs? I'd just have multiple installs named differently and cycle through them. Once i had 10 installs on dos and would roll a d10 to see which game i would play. Still it is odd I never finished EOB3 and instead went to play Dungeon Hack forever (later I swapped to Anvil of Dawn).

I get really bored by repetative things, so restarting games with different builds is not for me unless I really have to. There are rare exceptions like Age of Decadence, I replayed it 3 times with different builds in a matter of a few weeks, but the 3rd playthrough was really pushing my limits. I'll need to play it at least 2-3 more times with different builds, but probably that will happen only years later.

So, that's a no, in short

I completed EoB I on the Amiga in the early 90s, shortly after it came out. Then my second walkthrough was a couple of years ago with the first stable and mostly feature complete version of Gridmonger. That was my first real test of the program.

I played the Amiga AGA remake. If I replay it a third time (and I'm sure I will because I love the first game very much), I will play the original 32-colour version which is also glorious and stylistically a bit different than the 256-colour VGA original.

I haven't played EoB III yet, but I definitely will—after Lands of Lore, which I haven't played either.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Amiga AGA Remake? I need to look that up. I think a mod for some SSI games like multi save list A-I would be great. I suppose I could see why there is no swappable roster story-wise but an adventurer's in like in Bard's Tale would be cool for replaying even with alts that already won. Eh, maybe I burned myself out doing multiple play throughs with nearly every game I tried (which includes cheat hacks/cracks of various sorts).

Hmm... probably already posted and it escaped me.