Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[Shadenuat]

None of those are people you'd expect to carry high level magical weapons

and early game smeth whos quest reward is some bg1 hammer is expected
but OK
Orrick upgrades his spells with every chapter (for first few chapters)
smith can have similar mechanic.

the absolute trash in BG1

relative to their meta and monsters you meet (xvarts vs yeti) they're fine. in the end it makes for a better balanced game.
and IWD, honestly, would be a better game if there was a stat point limit.

Mages are already pretty weak in IWD thanks to how much combat and how many encounters there are, unless you rest an absolute ton. There's also a huge lack of spell scrolls

1) can dual class 2) cannot say there is lack of scrolls, had total of 3 arcane casters, everyone had things to spam, just split jobs (muh bard spammed shadow monsters, fighter wizord buffs, and then you can shove spell slot increasing things and cossuth ami and spam all kinds of shit every encounter even from third caster).

granted sorcerers...

I don't really see why you have this complaint

because compared to slow growth you achieve through bg trilogy, going from mm to timestop in a span of half dozen dungeons feels bad.
iwd as campaign doesn't need highest level magick to be gut.

HoW is just generally badly designed and balanced, no arguments here.

great, lets end this on that.

 

[KainenMorden]

None of those are people you'd expect to carry high level magical weapons

and early game smeth whos quest reward is some bg1 hammer is expected
but OK
Orrick upgrades his spells with every chapter (for first few chapters)
smith can have similar mechanic.

the absolute trash in BG1

relative to their meta and monsters you meet (xvarts vs yeti) they're fine. in the end it makes for a better balanced game.
and IWD, honestly, would be a better game if there was a stat point limit.

Mages are already pretty weak in IWD thanks to how much combat and how many encounters there are, unless you rest an absolute ton. There's also a huge lack of spell scrolls

1) can dual class 2) cannot say there is lack of scrolls, had total of 3 arcane casters, everyone had things to spam, just split jobs (muh bard spammed shadow monsters, fighter wizord buffs, and then you can shove spell slot increasing things and cossuth ami and spam all kinds of shit every encounter even from third caster).

granted sorcerers...

I don't really see why you have this complaint

because compared to slow growth you achieve through bg trilogy, going from mm to timestop in a span of half dozen dungeons feels bad.
iwd as campaign doesn't need highest level magick to be gut.

HoW is just generally badly designed and balanced, no arguments here.

great, lets end this on that.

This is just a general question, so I solod this game with a human lawful evil sorceror, never played how. Do you think the tactics mod is doable solo?

I saw legacy of bhaal and how mode as pointless so I never did full runs on them but maybe im just retarded, not sure.

 

[Nano]

There's also powerful spells that get significantly nerfed in IWD compared to BG2. e.g. Horrid Wilting, which is almost useless in IWD1 (causes FF)

Not nerfed, just implemented accurately according to PnP.

 

[Sacibengala]

https://twitter.com/mattbarton/status/1569115978088456193?s=20&t=fquplz0dovXzcvwugKuLrA Thread to follow.

 

[Acrux]

The source code for IWD2 being lost is proof of a benevolent God.




To clear it up for the dum-dums, because they can't EE it.

 

[Mikeal]

IWD2 source code isn't lost, Sawyer just took it when Interplay was dying and know keeps it in his Obsidian office.

 

[Comte_II]

IWD2 source code isn't lost, Sawyer just took it when Interplay was dying and know keeps it in his Obsidian office.

Sawyer has it in his vault along with his favorite panties.

 

[Average Manatee]

The source code for IWD2 being lost is proof of a benevolent God.

IWD2 is most in need of an EE since it's buggy (graphics still can't run properly to this day unless you try a half dozen fixes to see which works for you), slow (save/load takes insanely long by the end of the game, linked to saved variable processing code being fucked up somehow), and has next to no mods to fix any of its issues or add anything. It doesn't even have a proper widescreen mod that doesn't leave the UI fucked.

Aside from that IWD1EE was basically fine:

- Half Orc is reasonably balanced compared to Dwarf. Also optional to use
- Kits/New classes are generally either underpowered or balanced compared to multiclassing (single class was underpowered as fuck in IWD1). Only two that I'd call overpowered is Archer and Sorcerer. Again still optional whether you use kits.
- New spells are OK. All the overpowered BG2 spells are so late that you'll barely use them (timestop scroll is the room before Icasaracht which you can't leave without fighting her and she's going to be the last thing you can do before Belhifet). Sorcerer does break this progression but again, optional.
- Everything else is fine, no new fuckup characters added, game scales to different resolutions and save/loads instantly.

The only minor criticism I have is that it sticks to BG2 weapon proficiencies rather than keeping the IWD1 ones, but there's a mod to fix that.

 

[Acrux]

I literally play IWD2 all the time on Win11 with no issues. There's a small number of mods worth using, true (Tactics4IWD2, Light of Selune) but those that are, are pretty good. Plus the 2DA modding is pretty flexible.

 

[Average Manatee]

Cool story bro, I play IWD2 too. Recently, even.

The UI looks like this abomination with huge black bars and tons of things either badly sized or out of place:

Spoiler

- The Font is also way too small for higher resolutions and the best mod I can find to increase the size causes numerous other UI problems with text running off the screen and being unreadable. I'm using it here because as someone whose played the game 10x already I don't really need to see most of the stuff that becomes unreadable and would rather the text be a size that doesn't require me to move my head to within 6 inches of the screen to read.
- If you don't like the default zoom level for whatever resolution you use then there's no way to fix it.
- The game is still laggy and slow to save/load/enter new areas the longer you play. It's a small thing but there's a massive difference in feel between 10 seconds and 0.25 seconds.
- As I think we've mentioned in this very thread, stealth is literally broken at the code level in IWD2 and you are detected 100% of the time regardless of skill levels.
- The fog of war is an ugly gray box pattern rather than the normal expected one, and it flickers constantly whenever I move the screen (I used to have a fix for this but all the ones I've tried with my most recent installation don't seem to work).
- By the way scrolling is also fucked since there's no middle mouse button scroll and panning by moving the mouse to the edge of the screen is very slow even at the fastest setting since the game doesn't adjust for higher resolutions.
- I don't think multiplayer works without shitty workarounds now, and I have in fact played IWD1EE in multiplayer with 2 friends and it was 100% smooth and enjoyable so this is actually relevant to me.

I expect if there was an IWD2EE released there would be a good amount of new mods since the other EEs received a ton. Especially stuff like UI mods.

 

[Acrux]

If resolution is your issue, use GemRB. It's not complete for IWD2, but my understanding is it's mostly playable.

If you think an EE is only going to fix those things, and not include the decline the other EEs have received, I don't know what to tell you. And if you think mods created by the Beamdog crowd will make things better, that's bordering on delusional. Look at the unofficial IWD2 EE that's being proposed. The things being done are ludicrous.

 

[Average Manatee]

If resolution is your issue, use GemRB. It's not complete for IWD2, but my understanding is it's mostly playable.

The GemRB homepage says that IWD2 is not even completeable, let alone polished. Looking at the todo list "polish" seems to include things like making sure spells actually work like they did in IWD2.

If you think an EE is only going to fix those things, and not include the decline the other EEs have received, I don't know what to tell you. And if you think mods created by the Beamdog crowd will make things better, that's bordering on delusional. Look at the unofficial IWD2 EE that's being proposed. The things being done are ludicrous.

I literally compared it to the IWDEE, which was fine. The PS:TEE was perfectly fine too (the worst I heard was some modder drama because they credited only the guy who released the latest version of a fixpack rather than all fixpack contributers). I would expect them to change even less in an IWD2EE than they did in IWDEE because there are no BG2 kits or spells easily portable to IWD2 like they did IWD1.

 

[Gargaune]

IWD2 is most in need of an EE

Yup, absolutely. No matter what DDraw library I've tried, I've never been able to get the camera to move smoothly on W10. Worked fine on W7, but not anymore.

That said, some suggestions for two of your complaints:
- Try selecting a sub-native resolution in the Widescreen mod to bring your text and zoom to a comfortable level, or maybe that nVidia Integer Scaling option if you have the hardware;
- Install the Havredest mod after the Widescreen fix to get rid of those black spaces in your UI.

 

[Average Manatee]

Also if you want to see how EE mods have better UIs, install Bubb's Spell Menu for BG1/2. Literally night and day difference for usability when playing with casters who know lots of spells. Imagine scrolling through this rather than just picking your spell from the level you know its at

Spoiler

Yes this is a wild mage who knows every spell possible in ToB + some shitty mod spells but still, here's a more normal caster

Spoiler

You can also see the individual character rounds and cooldowns for them casting a spell/taking thief actions (good for knowing when your find trap attempt just procced and can open something or move ahead). Along with this you can see what spell effects are on a character including enemies.

IWD2 is most in need of an EE

Yup, absolutely. No matter what DDraw library I've tried, I've never been able to get the camera to move smoothly on W10. Worked fine on W7, but not anymore.

That said, some suggestions for two of your complaints:
- Try selecting a sub-native resolution in the Widescreen mod to bring your text and zoom to a comfortable level, or maybe that nVidia Integer Scaling option if you have the hardware;
- Install the Havredest mod after the Widescreen fix to get rid of those black spaces in your UI.

I'm actually comfortable with the zoom level, it's just the text that is the problem without a font increase. A sub-native resolution would mean either scaling artifacts or (with integer scaling) black bars unless you went to half normal resolution which would be way too fucking low and zoomed in for my monitor. Mod doesn't work for me because my resolution is 1440p, it only goes up to 1080p.

 

[Roguey]

The source code for IWD2 being lost is proof of a benevolent God.




To clear it up for the dum-dums, because they can't EE it.

Didn't follow the thread I see. Turns out Burger Becky had the source code all along and it will be making its way to Trent.

Let me make sure it’s complete.

If you have it, we'd be very happy to see it.

I have all the tools to build the assets.

let's talk via e-mail

Decline will come to all!

 

[Acrux]

As if I needed another reason to hate him!

I'm gonna throw in Twitter to the hate, also.

 

[Gargaune]

Didn't follow the thread I see. Turns out Burger Becky had the source code all along and it will be making its way to Trent.

Fuck yes! Time is money and I've spent more than an EE's worth trying various DDraw setups with mixed results, plus plug-and-play widescreen and zoom, Quickloot for all those Targos goblins... Do it, Trent!

I have all the tools to build the assets.

Does this just mean the tools pipeline, or the source assets too? I recall that was an issue with BG EE, that they'd originally intended to re-render everything at a higher res, but that the source assets had been lost.

 

[Spukrian]

Look at the unofficial IWD2 EE that's being proposed. The things being done are ludicrous.

You're talking about this right?

you no longer have to solve tedious, cryptic puzzles to complete certain areas

 

[Acrux]

Yes, among other things. There's a lot of rule changes that are dubious.

As you mention, you can apparently skip half of the game. I'm not sure why you'd bother to play the game.

You can skip parts of:

• Targos
• Horde Fortress
• Ice Temple
• Wandering Village
• Black Raven Monastery
• Underdark
• Dragon's Eye
• Severed Hand

Other things:

• Spells that weaken a creature rather than disabling it have a higher DC or no save at all (e.g. Deafness has no save since it simply gives 20% spell failure).
• They are changing trolls (trolls!) to no longer require acid or fire to defeat.
• They are adding several of the characters in the games as potential recruitable party members, with crazy stats, of course.
• They are changing the level scaling.
• They are reducing enemy bonuses in HOF mode (what's the point?)

Terrible new itemization:

Terrible new spells (there are a lot of video examples of the things they are adding):

Yeah, yeah, yeah - optional components. But it's stupid to put all this effort into these drastic changes that fundamentally change the game.

Also:

Spoiler

The director is a super-turbo tranny. While looking for the info about this mod, his reddit account comes up and it's filled with degenerate coomer tranny faggot stuff. Like, off the charts disgusting. So, you know if this source code is released, he's getting a job at Beamdog to lead the project.

 

[Jigby]

just FYI, I played iwd2+tactics+ee (just engine enhancements) and the game was 99.5% identical to iwd2+tactics. The only difference I felt were - the locks were more difficult to bash, so there might be some engine change there, and also it felt like I needed nondetection+invis in some places whereas in original iwd2 invis was good enough (I'm thinking of stealth releasing the prisoners in the IceTemple in chapter 2, in ee I needed nondetection). Other than that it was identical.

I didn't try any of the item changes/spell changes/rule changes since they felt too much like BG2.

The engine enhancements cover most of what was requested in the posts above i.e.:
- quickloot bar
- faster load times
- smoother viewport scroll
- more responsive dialogue window
- middle mouse button scrolling
- no dithering in fog of war
- widescreen support
- fixed sneak check (IIRC)

what's missing is bubb's style spell selector, that's too much of an UI change for RE.

 

[Average Manatee]

I don't know why anyone would assume that an IWD2EE would integrate all this retarded shit changes from someone's stupid balance mod. BG1 and 2 didn't copy a single thing from SCS and that's an actually good mod that has almost universal praise by BG vets.

I remember reading their changelog and it was actually even stupider than some of the stuff listed. Like Fighters getting +10 AB/Damage just because the modder thinks that martial classes are underpowered (what?)

 

[Roguey]

As you mention, you can apparently skip half of the game. I'm not sure why you'd bother to play the game.

Sawyer did say that he wished more of IWD2 was optional content off the critical path because the game is too combat dense on account of their fear that it would be too short.

 

[Acrux]

I don't know why anyone would assume that an IWD2EE would integrate all this retarded shit changes from someone's stupid balance mod.

Well, for one thing, they got Beamdog's approval to use the EE name for the mod. Of course, if the source code has actually been found that would change things.

We also got permission to call it IWD2EE from Beamdog's main spokesperson, Julius Borisov, with his blessings.

 

[Jvegi]

you no longer have to solve tedious, cryptic puzzles to complete certain areas

You've misspelled

 

[Jvegi]

the game is too combat dense

Sawyer is dense. All the inane gameplay experiments would be way more tolerable if they were accompanied by quality encounters. IWD2 has the best fucking rtwp combat ever, but it gets pushed back by badly paced, untested innovative gameplay elements, which couldn't be scraped due to time constraints.

My review for full context:

Spoiler

The first IWD had good story, very well designed encounters with beautiful story justifications for enemy placement, good loot and simple character progression. It was a tight package, with the only serious flaw I can remember being the lack of difficulty in later parts of the game.
IWD2 tries to add many things to that experience, but it feels like the quality assurance was not there. It was clearly a rushed product with many talented people with ambitious ideas.

The itemization is lackluster to say the least. There are many utility items that are essential at early stages, but later on they loose significance because spells do the same things better. There are too many magical items with subpar effects for which you can't find any use. It gets worse later on, in chapters 5 and 6 you're barraged with items that are no better than the stuff you already have and the only use for those items is to sell them. Only there are no actual vendors after Kuldahar. I had only one helmet for my party. The rings mostly give bonuses to deflection and so do the cloaks. Very rarely you find something with a useful effect you can use strategically. Deflection, minor elemental resistance and 1hp per turn regeneration is all you can hope for. It doesn't mean there aren't items that feel nice to find and equip, but they are rare and badly paced.

The story is simplistic with very interesting details that are not developed at all. I also very often felt confused about the reasons for doing something.

The dungeons are ridicules. The only one striking a good balance of story and fighting is imo the Underdark. The Fortress is better, but it doesn't try to strike balance which is a very IWD1 thing and that's awesome. The Ice Temple, Woods, Dragon's Butthole and even The Tower of Stairs have WAY TOO LITTLE combat and way too much backtracking, with little to no clues on how to progress. This is IWD, the combat game. I'd be fine with puzzles, even if most of them are too experimental, but give me good fights in between. The Ice Temple has a lot of enemies, but they're not challenging at all.

The character progression I found to be disappointing. I'm sure it was the shit at the time, but we've seen many games doing much better job with character customization in 3rdE. And even those were not that good. Perhaps with ultra min-max multi-classing approach this system can be fun, but playing it at insane I found very little opportunities to utilize my feats nor felt my choices had any influence on my tactics.

The skills have no use. My rouge was 5/12 and her trap disabling abilities were way too random. Those were the only ones that mattered. Perhaps skills like concentration have an impact, but concentration and knowledge are like the only skills you can invest in. With intelligence higher than 10 investing in skills in classes other than rouge is an exercise in choosing the least useless option. Diplomacy/Bluff/Intimidate skills have very little use, and you're likely to miss the instances where they're used. Despite the promising first chapter.

I'm shitting on everything, but my point is that everything you do in this game has flaws. Nothing is perfect. Except, perhaps for the RtwP combat.

RtWP in IWD1&2 is cool. You have to pause every second to survive, making it a unique blend of strategy and action. The mechanics of movement and skill use work very nice. It could work much better in the sequel if only you had more opportunities to utilize the system. Very rarely you find yourself in the situation where you fight enemies with varying methods of attack and resistances. Despite the introduction of new environmental factors like exploding barrels, the game fails to introduce unique fighting scenarios on pair with the first game. It happens from time to time, but it's not consistent.

Good things, many annoying things, not developed enough.

Much like ToEE.