Icewind Dale The Icewind Dale Series Thread

[rojay]

Some of you rave about the mods that already exist for IE games. If they did find the source code, will that help modding efforts for IWD2? Wasn't content cut from the game when it was released? If so, would finding the source code allow that to be restored?

Because I don't give two shits about any "woke" stuff if I can have more of the core gameplay I enjoyed in the IE games.

 

[Average Manatee]

Some of you rave about the mods that already exist for IE games. If they did find the source code, will that help modding efforts for IWD2? Wasn't content cut from the game when it was released? If so, would finding the source code allow that to be restored?

Because I don't give two shits about any "woke" stuff if I can have more of the core gameplay I enjoyed in the IE games.

Finding the source code on its own isn't going to do anything since it will stay with beamdog and not be released for modders.

IWD2 modding is held back by a few things:

- The engine is substantially different from BG1/2/IWD1, so modding cross-knowledge between games is hampered. I think there's a lot of things script-wise that simply don't work in the IWD2 engine, so you have to learn new ways to do things.
- IWD2 is the buggiest IE game by far, which makes modding more annoying
- IWD2 is (I assume) the least popular of the games, modders usually go for the game where their mod will be played by the most people. Which is why 95% of mods are either for BG2 or BG1 in the BG2 engine, because that's what's played.

If beamdog released an EE it could probably help on all of these but I doubt that you'd see substantial mods for the game beyond stuff like tweakpack and simple ui mods.

The itemization is lackluster to say the least

This really can't be overstated. I can only assume the devs didn't understand the difference between 2nd ed and 3rd ed because IWD2 items are weird. It seems to treat +1 to a stat like it makes a powerful item and +2 to a stat as either endgame or fucking heart of fury tier equipment. I don't want the opposite where every character has +8 to all stats by the endgame and merchants are running around selling infinite quantities of every item, but cmon. A lot of classes also had really sparse spell lists.

 

[Cael]

The itemization is lackluster to say the least

This really can't be overstated. I can only assume the devs didn't understand the difference between 2nd ed and 3rd ed because IWD2 items are weird. It seems to treat +1 to a stat like it makes a powerful item and +2 to a stat as either endgame or fucking heart of fury tier equipment. I don't want the opposite where every character has +8 to all stats by the endgame and merchants are running around selling infinite quantities of every item, but cmon. A lot of classes also had really sparse spell lists.

Because of the lack of stat boosts and even decent armour (+1 plate was as good as it got until endgame), casters really shined in IWD2. With all of the +4/+5 weapons running around, a melee tank is not going to last two rounds.

 

[Average Manatee]

Ehh, melee characters are still fine. You're really incentivized to take a level of monk and min-max your stats though. Greatly improves your usually weak save as well.

 

[Nano]

Who the hell is coming up with these things? Time reversal should be *harder* than time freezing. And they made this a level 5 spell?

 

[Jigby]

BG2 fans

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Who the hell is coming up with these things? Time reversal should be *harder* than time freezing. And they made this a level 5 spell?

Is that actually in the game or is some modder stuff? I don't recall that spell in any AD&D books.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

BG2 fans

There's hundreds of spells they could have pulled from various published, official TSR material that never got implemented.

 

[Nano]

Is that actually in the game or is some modder stuff? I don't recall that spell in any AD&D books.

Modder stuff. You can see the full list here: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/comment/1138267/#Comment_1138267

 

[Average Manatee]

I like how its also casting time 0, something no other spell in the game has AFAIK.

This is the same modder who is buffing martials because spellcasters are so much better than them?

 

[Jvegi]

Meh, I think it could work. The casting time is too much, but the effect is not that op for a 5th level spell, with spell slots being limited for most of the game and the importance of action economy on higher difficulties. I can see it being broken in bg2 scs where you could ignore your caster getting naked, but as far as I can remember mage duels are not really a thing in IWD2. It would be more of a limited repositioning and dispelling tool. I don't see it being stronger than cloudkill or dominate person.

Also, the game is fucking bad, let's not pretend it's not. It needs fixing. Will those particular modders do it right? Maybe.

Time reversal should be *harder* than time freezing.

Why? It only applies to the caster, whereas time stop stops the entire world.

 

[Nano]

Why?

Because actual time travel should be harder than just making things stop in a small AoE.

It only applies to the caster, whereas time stop stops the entire world.

Time Stop only works in the area of effect. Would be beyond OP if it worked everywhere.

Upon casting a time stop spell, the wizard causes the flow of time to stop for one round in the area of effect. Outside this area the sphere simply seems to shimmer for an instant. Inside the sphere, the caster is free to act for 1d3 rounds of apparent time.

 

[Average Manatee]

Question is whether it also restores items so that you can spam single use items and scrolls. Possibly it'd even let you dupe items.

 

[Jvegi]

Because actual time travel should be harder than just making things stop in a small AoE.

Any fantasy physics to back that up? Because gameplay wise time stop is much stronger and gives more tactical options.

Question is whether it also restores items

It doesn't restore spell slots so I guess the same balance logic would apply to items.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Any fantasy physics to back that up?

sure, time travel is actually very rare in faerun
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/108945/is-there-a-way-in-the-forgotten-realms-to-time-travel

Edition notice: Most of the stuff below is from AD&D 2nd sourcebooks. The question does not ask for a specific edition (fluff only) so the content below should be adapted for other editions. Not hard, as the effects do not change game statistics.

...which even references a spell capable of time travel that is a 9th level spell.
I don't have any AD&D books or the 2e forgotten realms sourcebook on hand to check what they had beyond Time Stop.

 

[underground nymph]

IWD2 is most in need of an EE since it's buggy (graphics still can't run properly to this day unless you try a half dozen fixes to see which works for you), slow (save/load takes insanely long by the end of the game, linked to saved variable processing code being fucked up somehow), and has next to no mods to fix any of its issues or add anything. It doesn't even have a proper widescreen mod that doesn't leave the UI fucked.

How’s that I don’t have any of those problems? Do you even wine 3d? Did you try to search for a ui fix in the webs?

 

[Jvegi]

It might be true, would make sense considering how damaging time travel is to any setting it's introduces to.

However, 2 rounds of personal rewind is not exactly Back to the Future. It's not even time travel, really, just a status change. Not that big of a deal imho. I'm much more interested in how it would actually function in-game.

 

[Acrux]

Other than rogues being weak (with the sneak attack nerf and move silently bug), I think that IWD2 is just about perfect with the Tactics4IWD2 mod. It's not super cheesed, but it does provide a good challenge. Enemy spellcasters use their spells, for one thing!

 

[Average Manatee]

Bards are pretty useless until the War Chant of Sith song too. Otherwise classes are pretty good (except for itemization issue).

How’s that I don’t have any of those problems? Do you even wine 3d? Did you try to search for a ui fix in the webs?

There is no ui fix for me. Other issues are inherent to the engine.

 

[underground nymph]

There is no ui fix for me. Other issues are inherent to the engine.

IWD2_GUI Fix.exe* and setup-ddrawfix.exe (wine 3d option) work just fine.
*although I highly recommend opting for an integer upscale instead of the widescreen mod

 

[Average Manatee]

There is no ui fix for me. Other issues are inherent to the engine.

IWD2_GUI Fix.exe* and setup-ddrawfix.exe (wine 3d option) work just fine.
*although I highly recommend opting for an integer upscale instead of the widescreen mod

As we literally already discussed in the thread, the UI mod only works up to 1080p. Read the thread nigger.

None of the icewind dale-specific ddraw fix mods work for me. The only thing that works for me nowadays is https://github.com/CnCNet/cnc-ddraw/releases. Not sure if its driver or OS issues that have fucked up previous fixes I used. At least this ddraw version has perfect fullscreen windowed mode though.

 

[Chippy]

Some of you rave about the mods that already exist for IE games. If they did find the source code, will that help modding efforts for IWD2? Wasn't content cut from the game when it was released? If so, would finding the source code allow that to be restored?

Because I don't give two shits about any "woke" stuff if I can have more of the core gameplay I enjoyed in the IE games.

Finding the source code on its own isn't going to do anything since it will stay with beamdog and not be released for modders.

IWD2 modding is held back by a few things:

- The engine is substantially different from BG1/2/IWD1, so modding cross-knowledge between games is hampered. I think there's a lot of things script-wise that simply don't work in the IWD2 engine, so you have to learn new ways to do things.
- IWD2 is the buggiest IE game by far, which makes modding more annoying
- IWD2 is (I assume) the least popular of the games, modders usually go for the game where their mod will be played by the most people. Which is why 95% of mods are either for BG2 or BG1 in the BG2 engine, because that's what's played.

If beamdog released an EE it could probably help on all of these but I doubt that you'd see substantial mods for the game beyond stuff like tweakpack and simple ui mods.

The itemization is lackluster to say the least

This really can't be overstated. I can only assume the devs didn't understand the difference between 2nd ed and 3rd ed because IWD2 items are weird. It seems to treat +1 to a stat like it makes a powerful item and +2 to a stat as either endgame or fucking heart of fury tier equipment. I don't want the opposite where every character has +8 to all stats by the endgame and merchants are running around selling infinite quantities of every item, but cmon. A lot of classes also had really sparse spell lists.

I've only played IWD2 once, while I've played the other games about once a year or more since release. But all I really remember from IWD2 was the quick weapon slots being universally open for all combinations, and the 3rd edition classes and attributes. Well, 3rd edition attributes are boring, and the EEs managed weapon slots, so that just leaves implementing 3rd edition class rules.

Considering they just wanted a quick cash-grab game, I think they should have just left it at 2nd edition rules and implemented the multiclassing as an option as per 3rd edition sneak in the game files. Throw in the race attributes as well. Kept it simple.

But then Sawyer wouldn't have got stuck into his rules.

 

[rojay]

Some of you rave about the mods that already exist for IE games. If they did find the source code, will that help modding efforts for IWD2? Wasn't content cut from the game when it was released? If so, would finding the source code allow that to be restored?

Because I don't give two shits about any "woke" stuff if I can have more of the core gameplay I enjoyed in the IE games.

Finding the source code on its own isn't going to do anything since it will stay with beamdog and not be released for modders.

IWD2 modding is held back by a few things:

- The engine is substantially different from BG1/2/IWD1, so modding cross-knowledge between games is hampered. I think there's a lot of things script-wise that simply don't work in the IWD2 engine, so you have to learn new ways to do things.
- IWD2 is the buggiest IE game by far, which makes modding more annoying
- IWD2 is (I assume) the least popular of the games, modders usually go for the game where their mod will be played by the most people. Which is why 95% of mods are either for BG2 or BG1 in the BG2 engine, because that's what's played.

If beamdog released an EE it could probably help on all of these but I doubt that you'd see substantial mods for the game beyond stuff like tweakpack and simple ui mods.

The itemization is lackluster to say the least

This really can't be overstated. I can only assume the devs didn't understand the difference between 2nd ed and 3rd ed because IWD2 items are weird. It seems to treat +1 to a stat like it makes a powerful item and +2 to a stat as either endgame or fucking heart of fury tier equipment. I don't want the opposite where every character has +8 to all stats by the endgame and merchants are running around selling infinite quantities of every item, but cmon. A lot of classes also had really sparse spell lists.

I've only played IWD2 once, while I've played the other games about once a year or more since release. But all I really remember from IWD2 was the quick weapon slots being universally open for all combinations, and the 3rd edition classes and attributes. Well, 3rd edition attributes are boring, and the EEs managed weapon slots, so that just leaves implementing 3rd edition class rules.

Considering they just wanted a quick cash-grab game, I think they should have just left it at 2nd edition rules and implemented the multiclassing as an option as per 3rd edition sneak in the game files. Throw in the race attributes as well. Kept it simple.

But then Sawyer wouldn't have got stuck into his rules.

I wasn't up to Black Isle to decide which edition of rules to use, was it?

I can't recall everything I've read about the game's development, but wasn't the switch to 3E also mandated after the game was already in development?

 

[Roguey]

I wasn't up to Black Isle to decide which edition of rules to use, was it?

I can't recall everything I've read about the game's development, but wasn't the switch to 3E also mandated after the game was already in development?

No, it was going to be a 2.5e with kits like BG2 but Sawyer insisted that they absolutely had to switch over to 3rd edition and he got his way, much to the disappointment of Avellone and the programmers.

 

[Average Manatee]

IIRC (I'm pretty sure it was a Roguey post) Sawyer said that the switch to 3rd ed was really easy and took very little time. And really most of the area design and encounters are fine for an IWD game. I don't really see IWD2 being significantly better if it was cloned from BG2 systems and having a 3rd ed game is at least an interesting novelty.