The Outer Worlds Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Prime Junta]

Prime Junta Tigranes you guys have actually played it, can you explain what makes the skills as characters setup different from any old build related reactivity?

I will neither confirm nor deny that I've played it, but the following should be fairly evident from the previews they've released so far. Take it for what it's worth...

The game is attempting two things that haven't really ever been done in RPGs. One is to be a simulation of being a sentient being. The other is to recreate the feel of a pen-and-paper RPG session not involving figurine-based combat, but with a really creative and quick-witted DM and a really deeply fleshed-out world.

The skills are central to how this works. Yes, they serve as gatekeepers like in every cRPG with non-combat skills ever; succeed in a die roll and you accomplish something, fail and you hurt your foot kicking on the rubbish bin, and get to try again after putting a point in your kicking-the-rubbish-bin skill. (Which would be Physical Instrument.) That really isn't that different from any other cRPG.

There are two things that really are different however.

One, the "Red" skills you can only try once, and where failures have sometimes really cool if often unfortunate consequences. This is your DM quickly coming up with a new mess you got yourself into when, say, you failed your Volition check and wet yourself in front of an authoritative character who has you by the testicles. I haven't seen this kind of thing anywhere. The Witchers have delayed consequences for your actions, which may sometimes be not what you wanted, but this is about things taking an unexpected but still interesting turn when you failed at something you attempted.

Two, the internal monologue. The higher your skills are, the more they talk to you. They're the ideas popping into your head seemingly at random, which then open up new avenues for you to pursue. Sometimes the ideas are really good "Empathy: That guy is hiding something about that topic, press him on it." Sometimes it's really bad: "Electrochemistry: Lick that rum stain. Lick it! Lick it now!" Either way, you can act on it or not, and the combination of the skills you've built up and the actions you've taken to their prompts defines "what kind of cop you are" at a completely new level.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

So you can't name one.

Can you show me another CRPG where you can actively participate in your PC’s own internal monologue (not passively consume memories like PST or TTON)? Where convincing yourself to do something requires an argument with yourself and/or a dice roll?

My favorite example that I’ve heard about so far: you’re questioning a suspect and your logic, rhetoric, drama, perception, composure and authority skills all insist that the suspect is telling the truth, but then your volition skill (if you’ve put enough points into it) screams that you’re being fooled by a master manipulator and all of your other skills have clearly been compromised by the enemy, so now you have to figure out which part of your brain to believe.

Has any other CRPG even tried to model internal conflict like that?

Can you show me another game that lets you equip and unequip ideologies like weapons and armor in a more traditional CRPG? Equip “inexplicable feminist agenda” and you start getting options to rant about the patriarchy. Equip whatever they’re calling race science and you can start talking like many of the “very fine people” who post over at General Discussion.

***

Prime Junta you played an early build two years ago and wrote a whole piece about it!!!

 

[Infinitron]

We will see in a year Comrade unless somebody will take a bullet for KKKodexia and install the spyware from the Celestial Empire and do review earlier Comrade.

It's literally a $1 dollar game on the Microsoft Store with Game Pass right now. I think lots of people are going to be playing this on launch.

 

[Prime Junta]

Prime Junta you played an early build two years ago and wrote a whole piece about it!!!

I'm sure they have been working very hard and the game has come a long way since then.

 

[pomenitul]

I can't bring myself to give the shadow of a fuck about Disco Elysium's setting. It looks like incline otherwise.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Where failures have sometimes really cool if often unfortunate consequences. I haven't seen this kind of thing anywhere.

You're literally describing Numanuma's system where failing a roll often opens up a different dialogue node. And yes, you think you haven't seen it, because as we already established, it's a pointless gimmick that is invisible to the player.

Two, the internal monologue. The higher your skills are, the more they talk to you. That guy is hiding something about that topic, press him on it.

So basically the game performs a passive skill check to determine if dialogue should display additional information? Yep, that's been done a thousand times before.

Such innovation, much wow.

 

[Prime Junta]

You're literally describing Numanuma's system where failing a roll can sometimes open up a different dialogue node.

No. I'm really not.

So basically the game performs a passive skill check to determine if dialogue should display additional information? Yep, that's been done a thousand times before.

Dude, this kind of reductionism is on the level of "So it's displaying moving pictures on the screen. Been done a million times before."

 

[Adidas-Clichèd Cringe]

Looking at the trailer for Disco Elysium and it definitely makes a lot of lofty promises. Does look quite interesting tbh.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

You're literally describing Numanuma's system where failing a roll can sometimes open up a different dialogue node.

No. I'm really not.

Yes, you really are. "Failure can sometimes have fun consequences" was a talking point hammered by Fargo over and over.

So basically the game performs a passive skill check to determine if dialogue should display additional information? Yep, that's been done a thousand times before.

reductionism

You're hyping generic RPG features as a galactic revolution that will change the genre. I'm afraid your hype needs to be reduced and brought down to planet earth.

I asked for example of feature that is revolutionary and never done before. The only thing you came up with is an example of passive skill checks that provide some contextual hints, aka, run of the mill RPG dialogue trick.

 

[Prime Junta]

I asked for example of feature that is revolutionary and never done before. The only thing you came up with is an example of passive skill checks that provide some contextual hints, aka, run of the mill RPG dialogue trick.

They're not "contextual hints" you twat.

Just go through one of the dialogues that's actually been shown in some of the clips they've released, like the one with Garte the cafeteria manager and then tell me with a striaght face that your Authority telling you to arrest him for talking back to you is a "contextual hint."

As to the consequences for failure, yeah Fargo hyped them and they would have been terrific had they been at all like he hyped them. Difference is, in Disco Elysium they really are.

 

[Daedalos]

Disco Elysium and Outer Worlds. Both day 1 purchases. October is gonna be a great month, y'all

 

[AW8]

Disco Elysium coming out 10 days before this will probably suck for Obsidian. Give everyone a crazy innovative RPG, then follow up with something that feels extremely safe, mediocre and done to death...

...and it's gonna sell like hotcakes. Remember how Fallout 4 tanked because everyone (including the console players, who are about 95% of the market) bought Underrail Early Access instead? Me neither.

I agree that the general gameplay shown in The Outer Worlds has been disappointing, but the game is THE role-playing game of 2019, with marketing everywhere. The Epic controversy will barely affect it at most, and a niche game like No Truce with the Furries will have no effect on it at all.

 

[felipepepe]

Disco Elysium coming out 10 days before this will probably suck for Obsidian. Give everyone a crazy innovative RPG, then follow up with something that feels extremely safe, mediocre and done to death...

Please list any RPGs similar to new vegas that came out within the past 5 years because I want to play them. :D

Missing the point entirely. If I released Guitar Hero 7 today, would that make it fresh just because we haven't had one in years? No, it's a series that ran its course and looks dull now.

That's exactly how these "Fallout 3-like" RPGs look now. Since Fallout 3 came out we had over 11 years of technological and design changes. Some things like that terribly dull and floaty combat, the entirely horizontal exploration and that stale dialog style look dated as fuck - we now know and expect better. FFS, when F3 came out the combat already felt like crap, since then we had games like Dishonored, Prey, Deus Ex, EYE, nu-DOOM, Overwatch, Destiny, Titanfall and many others raising the bar and adding new concepts to FPS combat...

Cyberpunk looks like a game that's incorporating this evolution, but Outer Worlds doesn't even have any sense of verticallity in its combat or level design, it's literally like a Fallout 3 mod. And nothing Obsidian showed so far looks interesting enough to carry such a stale game. Might as well go play some New Vegas mods.

 

[Molina]

Disco Elysium coming out 10 days before this will probably suck for Obsidian. Give everyone a crazy innovative RPG, then follow up with something that feels extremely safe, mediocre and done to death...

...and it's gonna sell like hotcakes. Remember how Fallout 4 tanked because everyone (including the console players, who are about 95% of the market) bought Underrail Early Access instead? Me neither.

I agree that the general gameplay shown in The Outer Worlds has been disappointing, but the game is THE role-playing game of 2019, with marketing everywhere. The Epic controversy will barely affect it at most, and a niche game like No Truce with the Furries will have no effect on it at all.

I agree.
2 days and only 40k view for the Disco Elysium trailer....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqVzFjna00Y

 

[Prime Junta]

I wonder if TOW and Disco are really competing for the same players. Obsidian has a certain amount of mainstream name recognition whereas ZA/UM is straight out of the blue. They're both RPGs with a budget that's probably more or less in the same order of magnitude, but that's pretty much where the similarities end.

I kinda hope they're competing for the same players because that would mean ZA/UM is punching way above its weight also commercially, straight from the outset.

 

[Wesp5]

I wonder if TOW and Disco are really competing for the same players.

I doubt it. TOW is first person view and thus interesting for much more people than old-school isometric Disco Elysium...

 

[Quillon]

since then we had games like Dishonored, Prey, Deus Ex, EYE, nu-DOOM, Overwatch, Destiny, Titanfall and many others raising the bar and adding new concepts to FPS combat...

It has to do with type of game/setting and its rules. With your logic battlefield, cod, arma etc realistic and realistic-ish shooters are stale and pointless to make.

And no game has surpassed narrative design of NV since then.

That said Obsidian made conscious design decisions to uphold those dated stuff from F3 & NV, literally the first thing I complained about the game was how dated the talking head convos looked... since then I got used to it, doesn't feel so jarring now when I see it Anyway, we were not expecting and they have not promised anything other than NV experience in a different setting.

 

[Terenty]

Cyberpunk looks like a game that's incorporating this evolution, but Outer Worlds doesn't even have any sense of verticallity in its combat or level design, it's literally like a Fallout 3 mod. And nothing Obsidian showed so far looks interesting enough to carry such a stale game. Might as well go play some New Vegas mods.

Some people are in denial here, the game looks agressively outdated.

It doesn't even have mantling ffs

 

[Jimmious]

People in here play Vogel games and KOTC. Who cares about "mantling"? If the mechanics/gameplay/at least story are good, then the visuals are irrelevant

 

[Nano]

since then we had games like Dishonored, Prey, Deus Ex, EYE, nu-DOOM, Overwatch, Destiny, Titanfall and many others raising the bar and adding new concepts to FPS combat...

You forgot to mention the part where all of these games (except EYE?) are AAA games.

 

[Abu Antar]

I wonder how much money Epic threw at this. Apparently, the paid 9,5 million Euro for Control exclusivity.

 

[Infinitron]

I wonder how much money Epic threw at this. Apparently, the paid 9,5 million Euro for Control exclusivity.

Yeah, holy shit Epic got ripped off. Paying millions for "exclusivity" only to see Microsoft give the game out free with a $5/month subscription

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

In Dungeons and Dragons when you're not in combat, you Take 20 as opposed to rolling for success, which means either you pick the lock or you can't.

Take 20 is a 3E rule. 4E only has Take 10, and 5E doesn't have either rule.

an anecdote Fairfax shared from someone about how he saw how many words Avellone had already written for New Vegas and cry-laughed for an extended period of time.

Wait which post was this?

J.R. Vosovic shares an amusing story related to MCA:

Early on, I was sharing an office with Eric Fenstermaker. After a week or two of writing he checked in some dialogue and was super happy with it - and he had written several hundred lines. (At that point I had only written about a dozen placeholders).

A bit later he starts swearing and sort of fake-sad-crying-laughing and is looking pretty defeated. Being the glowing tower of empathy that I am, I told him to shut the f up. But also inquired why he was now a broken shell of a man.

He told me he checked in a couple hundred lines for a character, and then checked Chris Avellone's character for comparison.

... Over 10,000 lines. Legend status confirmed

So that experience really opened my eyes to the metrics required to reach exalted levels of awesome. Here I was with 10-20 lines. Fenster who was one of our best, with hundreds. Then Chris...amazing

It was long after that I read a great book called War of Art. Check it out. To summarize: work a 10-6 day every day and put in the work. It will come.

How many words on average constitute a line?

 

[Prime Junta]

I wonder how much money Epic threw at this. Apparently, the paid 9,5 million Euro for Control exclusivity.

Yeah, holy shit Epic got ripped off. Paying millions for "exclusivity" only to see Microsoft give the game out free with a $5/month subscription

I'm pretty sure numbers were transferred between bank accounts to sort that out. Getting sold to Microsoft would not make contracts between Obsidian and third parties void just like that. Mostly likely MS just bought Epic out of the deal.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Imagine thinking Epic payed for exclusivity and they're just fine with this with nothing else going behind the scenes.

But Infinitron also believed that Microsoft was "hands-off" because they allowed Mage's Tale to be released on Playstation.
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ards-tale-universe.113850/page-5#post-6000162

In the world of Infinitron contracts don't exist.