The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

[DalekFlay]

Spoilery impressions: https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-outer-worlds/peril-on-gorgon-endings

It's insane to me to complain about over-the-top corporate evil in a game that is all about over-the-top corporate evil.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

It's insane to me to complain about over-the-top corporate evil in a game that is all about over-the-top corporate evil.

BTW, minor spoiler, but I can't access a spoiler tag so be warned:

I think that's unfair to the reviewer, who seems to indicate:

1. They are tired about the corporate greed theme - there are ways to avoid this with good quest design, writing, and pacing, but apparently, it felt one-note (arguably like the base game) but even more shallow than the core game. Which leads me to...
2. The reviewer "complains" about being complicit in the Evil Scheme(tm) without being given a choice and murdering the test subjects, which genuinely sucks because it's the gameplay loop you're supposed to enjoy and engage in? That's more than fair.
3. And also, along with other story weakness, I don't see what the issue is about claiming the story is predictable in Act 3. Overall, it just seems like the writing and the premise is "meh" and so is the presentation. I feel like that's a fair critique to make if that's how they feel.
4. I am not a shill for PCGamerN, I normally hate all review sites and all journalists because they are idiots anyway. I did find Cohh's reaction super funny and honest, though. He could have given a review just with his expression after the final dialogue.

Guess we'll see about quality for DLC2, maybe they'll "experiment" with better writing approaches. On NeoGAF, the posters were mentioning that the team and production was pretty much a clusterfuck, so this might have been the result.

 

[Roguey]

Citation: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-outer-worlds-peril-on-gorgon-announce-trailer.1557488/

Apparently, the development for this DLC was a big mess, probably accounts for the delay.
...
I really hope so. Apparently, the 1st DLC team (led by one of the writers Kate?) took the DLC off the rails for months, and they had to restructure it and clean up the mess once they realized the problem.

To make matters worse, word from the studio was that Obsidian lied to Private Division about Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky being involved in the DLC (they weren't), and it took their actual involvement to fix it - but "fixing" means the DLCs more like the core game, and that means your mileage may vary since I know some really loved it, and some thought it was "meh". Obsidian apparently has a bad rep of assigning devs to projects without really putting those devs on it, then charging the publisher for the "devs" involvement - they did this with Paradox, Bethesda, and Private Division, it's probably one of the reasons they don't tend to work with publishers more than once, but there might be other reasons for that and with MS, they certainly don't need that anymore.

Peter Principle Patel really feeds into my preconceived notions of her abilities.

 

[DalekFlay]

I think that's unfair to the reviewer, who seems to indicate:

This is the line I was mostly responding to:

Peril on Gorgon’s clumsy use of human experimentation as a backdrop suggests it doesn’t fully appreciate the severity of the issues it’s signposting

The whole game is a whimsical take on super evil corporate actions. The main game is filled with that stuff, as is the DLC. If you're going to complain about treating those subjects in such a silly manner, then it's far from an issue with the DLC itself.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

This is the line I was mostly responding to:

The whole game is a whimsical take on super evil corporate actions. The main game is filled with that stuff, as is the DLC. If you're going to complain about treating those subjects in such a silly manner, then it's far from an issue with the DLC itself.

I think it's fair to complain about a poorly-implemented theme, thus the word "clumsy." The rest of the review seemed to have valid critiques, including punishing the player with a "gotcha!" for fighting test subjects and then feeling shitty about it (or hopefully you should). Give me a break, that's worse than clumsy, it's like anti-design.

But thanks for calling out the specific citation, I wasn't sure what you were talking about.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Also, have to say, I always think you're Alex/Alec Frey based on your handle's similarity.

 

[DalekFlay]

I think it's fair to complain about a poorly-implemented theme, thus the word "clumsy." The rest of the review seemed to have valid critiques, including punishing the player with a "gotcha!" for fighting test subjects and then feeling shitty about it (or hopefully you should). Give me a break, that's worse than clumsy, it's like anti-design.

But thanks for calling out the specific citation, I wasn't sure what you were talking about.

Well, I finished the DLC and don't ever remember that happening. You can react appalled at what they did, but no one ever chides you for defending yourself that I recall.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Well, I finished the DLC and don't ever remember that happening. You can react appalled at what they did, but no one ever chides you for defending yourself that I recall.

If you actually give a shit about your character and understand the context of what's going on, who the hell cares what NPCs think?

If an NPC tried to explain why you shouldn't feel guilty with a well-structured argument as to why it's okay to engage with the gameplay loop that was almost the entirety of combat in the core game and would naturally extend to the DLC, that's different.

Look, if you liked it, great. If you are attacking the reviewer for bringing up some points that make a lot of sense, more power to you, but I can see where they're coming from, and it sounds like it could have been fixable pretty easily if some idiot dev even thought outside their own narrative blinders to even consider how a variety of players might react.

 

[DalekFlay]

Look, if you liked it, great. If you are attacking the reviewer for bringing up some points that make a lot of sense, more power to you, but I can see where they're coming from, and it sounds like it could have been fixable pretty easily if some idiot dev even thought outside their own narrative blinders to even consider how a variety of players might react.

Is there more to the review than Infinitron posted? Because you're extrapolating a lot from what he quoted. Have you played the DLC all the way through like I have? Honest questions.

Spacer's Choice was up to some nasty stuff on Gorgon, yes. The game has no pacifist options once combat begins, even when the enemies are maybe not purely evil or under some kind of drug effect, yes. Your two end choices are both morally grey, yes. The writing and tone are silly and whimsical despite depicting heinous actions, yes. My point is that NONE of this is different from the main game, at all, whatsoever. The reviewer seems to be calling out the DLC for this in particular, which is what I don't understand. If you disliked that stuff in the main game, you wouldn't even be playing this.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

I don't know if it's "seems" because that's an interpretation - again, the reviewer actually uses the word "clumsy." If you think it was well-executed, great. And I don't care about pacifist options, I do care that they present you with an option where you'd consider a pacifist option if that makes sense.

I've only seen the Let's Plays (I'm not going to spend $15 for a DLC until it's reviewed) although I did think Cohh's facial expression review does seem to support the "clumsy" aspect of the narrative.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Spoilery impressions: https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-outer-worlds/peril-on-gorgon-endings

It's insane to me to complain about over-the-top corporate evil in a game that is all about over-the-top corporate evil.

Poor, repetitive writing. Same reason the terminals went from "heh" to "stop it" in the base game.
Compare it to e.g., Futurama which had how many episodes, yet still remained funny and fresh to the finale. I can't remember ever thinking Futurama was overdoing a specific theme or joke, yet much of its premise is very similar to Outer Worlds.

 

[Flying Dutchman]

Poor, repetitive writing. Same reason the terminals went from "heh" to "stop it" in the base game.
Compare it to e.g., Futurama which had how many episodes, yet still remained funny and fresh to the finale. I can't remember ever thinking Futurama was overdoing a specific theme or joke, yet much of its premise is very similar to Outer Worlds.

<==== This. The Futurama point is perfect.

 

[Quillon]

Citation: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-outer-worlds-peril-on-gorgon-announce-trailer.1557488/

Apparently, the development for this DLC was a big mess, probably accounts for the delay.
...
I really hope so. Apparently, the 1st DLC team (led by one of the writers Kate?) took the DLC off the rails for months, and they had to restructure it and clean up the mess once they realized the problem.

To make matters worse, word from the studio was that Obsidian lied to Private Division about Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky being involved in the DLC (they weren't), and it took their actual involvement to fix it - but "fixing" means the DLCs more like the core game, and that means your mileage may vary since I know some really loved it, and some thought it was "meh". Obsidian apparently has a bad rep of assigning devs to projects without really putting those devs on it, then charging the publisher for the "devs" involvement - they did this with Paradox, Bethesda, and Private Division, it's probably one of the reasons they don't tend to work with publishers more than once, but there might be other reasons for that and with MS, they certainly don't need that anymore.

Peter Principle Patel really feeds into my preconceived notions of her abilities.

is this true tho? a bit too same old story :/ and why she'd be proud of co-directing it if she actually lead it astray?

either case she and whoever else involved is incompetent af, only in this biz to push their agenda(her own fucking admission)

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The writing and tone are silly and whimsical despite depicting heinous actions, yes. My point is that NONE of this is different from the main game, at all, whatsoever.

Which is just lazy. This is where it completely falls apart compared to other good works in the same "genre". Outer Worlds never has moments where you put your big boy pants on and take the situation seriously, it's just one gag that goes on for too long.

 

[DalekFlay]

Which is just lazy. This is where it completely falls apart compared to other good works in the same "genre". Outer Worlds never has moments where you put your big boy pants on and take the situation seriously, it's just one gag that goes on for too long.

I agree with that pretty much. Again, my criticism is that the review (as I read it) acts like this is an issue with the DLC in particular.

 

[DeepOcean]

Man, Im so tired of this "There is this mysterious space station where bad things happened." cliche with its friend: "Super evil corporation do some unethical BS that makes absolutely no sense even looking from the pure greed perspective." and: "There is something really bad happening here, a terrible spooky mystery but you can one shot any enemy, including bosses with ease but please pretend be afraid." also: "I will tell you the story through audio logs and, of course, I will waste your time talking about useless information that doesnt matter to the current plot at all."

I mean, System Shock 2 was good because it actually tried to challenge you and you had to actually run and hide from the mutants to not waste precious bullets so the spooky space station was actually spooky and Bioshock at least tried to spice up the cliche with the whole objectivism and Andrew Ryan angle. I mean, just doing the spooky space station + evil corporation cliche still make people remotely interested? I mean Outer Worlds idea of setting is to get all the cliches, make some dumb jokes about it then proceed like you must actually care about the cliches but this thing is as run of the mill, generic popamole as it can get.

Also finding funny that the same influencers that shit on Bethesda for clicks and hyped Outer Worlds for that are now discovering it is actually a mediocre waste of time.

 

[luj1]

Like dont even put SS2 in the same sentence as this turd

 

[Infinitron]

Citation: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/the-outer-worlds-peril-on-gorgon-announce-trailer.1557488/

Apparently, the development for this DLC was a big mess, probably accounts for the delay.
...
I really hope so. Apparently, the 1st DLC team (led by one of the writers Kate?) took the DLC off the rails for months, and they had to restructure it and clean up the mess once they realized the problem.

To make matters worse, word from the studio was that Obsidian lied to Private Division about Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky being involved in the DLC (they weren't), and it took their actual involvement to fix it - but "fixing" means the DLCs more like the core game, and that means your mileage may vary since I know some really loved it, and some thought it was "meh". Obsidian apparently has a bad rep of assigning devs to projects without really putting those devs on it, then charging the publisher for the "devs" involvement - they did this with Paradox, Bethesda, and Private Division, it's probably one of the reasons they don't tend to work with publishers more than once, but there might be other reasons for that and with MS, they certainly don't need that anymore.

Peter Principle Patel really feeds into my preconceived notions of her abilities.

Duraframe300 and I saw that guy's posts and have reason to believe he might be making shit up. For one thing, it's not believable that a guy who has all this inside information couldn't cite Kate Dollarhyde's full name on the spot. It's like he's trying to make himself sound like a bigshot industry insider who knows so many names that he can't remember them all, but it doesn't make sense in this context.

The part about the DLC's development being off the rails sounds like it's based on things Carrie Patel publicly said in interviews when the DLC was announced in July. The part about Obsidian assigning devs without really assigning them is a copy-paste of Avellone accusations from 2018. It seems like he's taking a few kernels of truth and constructing a narrative around them to make it sound authentic.

 

[Ol' Willy]

System Shock 2 was good because it actually tried to challenge you and you had to actually run and hide from the mutants to not waste precious bullets

1) You can't hide in SS2. Enemies sometimes receive a direct go-to to your location. I remember sitting in the elevator completely out of sight of everyone just to be greeted by a couple of Rumblers and Maiden.
2) Bullets doesn't matter because you can shank most of the stuff to death with melee weapons.

Yes, let's discuss SS2 instead of THIS game

 

[Roguey]

Yeah, System Shock 2 wasn't scary, you were just young.

 

[Zer0wing]

10 months to make a 6 hour DLC? What took so long?

The fact that TES Construction Kit was the best content creation tool Obsidian has ever the experience with.

 

[Roguey]

10 months to make a 6 hour DLC? What took so long?

The fact that TES Construction Kit was the best content creation tool Obsidian has ever the experience with.

Good tools are a benefit, but even Dungeon Siege III had a DLC released four months later, Pillars of Eternity five months later, Deadfire three months later. There was dev hell here.

 

[Zer0wing]

Good tools are a benefit, but even Dungeon Siege III had a DLC released four months later, Pillars of Eternity five months later, Deadfire three months later. There was dev hell here.

ToW is made and supported by getting old and lazy boomer hasbeen sector of Obsidian, not Saywer domain.

 

[Wesp5]

1) You can't hide in SS2. Enemies sometimes receive a direct go-to to your location. I remember sitting in the elevator completely out of sight of everyone just to be greeted by a couple of Rumblers and Maiden.

Yes, and enemies spawned in empty rooms with no doors behind you infinitely and you had to kill them with a wrench, endlessly backtracking through mazelike maps. That was annoying and not scary! From a gameplay point of view it is a similar mess to TOW, only into the other direction, like you have too little resources where in TOW you have much too many. And indeed it seemed to have started the whole "read this log because all NPCs are already dead when you arrive" cliche, except if SS1 did this beforehand, which I never played...

 

[Roguey]

luj1 An assessment from 2014 https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...o-far-not-impressed.82886/page-9#post-3329215 https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...o-far-not-impressed.82886/page-9#post-3329883 https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-far-not-impressed.82886/page-10#post-3337963 https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads...-far-not-impressed.82886/page-11#post-3340064