The Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition - Obsidian's first-person sci-fi RPG set in a corporate space colony

[Sigourn]

I'm a leftist but extreme SJW writing has been ruining quite a few games because the writers think everyone cares about the same issues they do.
Many of us don't need to have ugly women shoved in our faces to understand that videogame women tend to be very attractive.

I heard one of the writers said that in this #MeToo world some aspects of a certain quest had to be rewritten altogether.

 

[DalekFlay]

I'm a leftist but extreme SJW writing has been ruining quite a few games because the writers think everyone cares about the same issues they do.
Many of us don't need to have ugly women shoved in our faces to understand that videogame women tend to be very attractive.

I heard one of the writers said that in this #MeToo world some aspects of a certain quest had to be rewritten altogether.

Funny thing is there's basically zero commentary on race, sexuality or trans issues to my memory. Also the left/right political divide is pretty jumbled with criticisms of all aspects. It's just VERY focused on feminist ideals. I'd assume a bunch of the writers were Jezebel readers or actual cucks.

Edit: Infinitron you know I'm not an anti-SJW crusader like some here, but there's just no way not to see a constant message of female superiority in this game. It's everywhere.

 

[Sigourn]

Funny thing is there's basically zero commentary on race, sexuality or trans issues to my memory. Also the left/right political divide is pretty jumbled with criticisms of all aspects. It's just VERY focused on feminist ideals. I'd assume a bunch of the writers were Jezebel readers or actual cucks.

Yeah, this is a big problem for me. I like political commentary but not when the political commentary is not something I'm particularly interested in, and if the female characters in TOW do nothing but reinforce feminist ideals, I can't say I'll find them interesting. Likewise if I have the only faction composed of white guys be a KKK-equilvanet, or the only faction composed of black guys be a commentary against slavery and shit.

 

[DalekFlay]

Yeah, this is a big problem for me. I like political commentary but not when the political commentary is not something I'm particularly interested in, and if the female characters in TOW do nothing but reinforce feminist ideals, I can't say I'll find them interesting. Likewise if I have the only faction composed of white guys be a KKK-equilvanet, or the only faction composed of black guys be a commentary against slavery and shit.

Yeah, bad or simplistic writing is just bad or simplistic writing. Even the "SJW" example everyone loves to use with Beamdog and Siege of Whatever with the tranny witch... a mage using magic to change gender is actually a decent concept, the problem is they wrote it poorly, like a Huffington Post advert. Outer Worlds feels like all those "dumb husband" commercials where the wife has to teach him a lesson by the end of it. It's like a "future is female" shirt wrote a game.

 

[Kazuki]

There's serious issue in this game that have been raised by many user, they can't based the game succes based on sales which is mostly because microsoft gamepass and external factor (bethesda fuckup).

And based on new dlc so far, they learned nothing which is very disappointing.

 

[Infinitron]

Edit: Infinitron you know I'm not an anti-SJW crusader like some here, but there's just no way not to see a constant message of female superiority in this game. It's everywhere.

The game's two most important characters: A tough-as-nails woman at the head of a corporation, and a befuddled male scientist. Which one of these is the good guy again?

Yes, The Outer Worlds has many female characters who are portrayed as hypercompetent and in charge. What many people don't seem to notice is that what these women are competent at is climbing the career ladder in a parodically malevolent clown world corporation. The idealistically goofy guys - the Phineas Wellses, the Sanjar Nandis, even the misguided ones like Graham Bryant the leader of the Iconoclasts - they're the real heroes of this setting.

An exchange from Shoutbox last week:

Sep 1, 2020 at 12:29 PM - @Kev Inkline: i think saying 'engineering' is pushing it, i find it hard to believe like game writers have a set conscious agenda of re-educatiing, i agree with 'tron that it's just the way they think "this is the story i want to tell" and they're so deep in their worldview they might not even realize it
Sep 1, 2020 at 12:31 PM - @Infinitron: Kev Inkline: P much. I mean usually. These people aren't so sophisticated, it's not hard to tell what's authentic and what isn't
Sep 1, 2020 at 12:35 PM - @Infinitron: For example, The Outer Worlds' setting full of no-nonsense career women middle managers and idealistic goofball male leaders struck me as being pretty authentic to how society actually looks like in certain fields in the 21st century
Sep 1, 2020 at 12:35 PM - @Infinitron: I resist that being described as "forced SJW agenda"
Sep 1, 2020 at 12:36 PM - @agentorange: outer worlds is more soy and poz than it is sjw
Sep 1, 2020 at 12:36 PM - @Infinitron: I can agree with that

(the "soy" part, at least)

 

[DalekFlay]

The game's two most important characters: A tough-as-nails woman at the head of a corporation, and a befuddled male scientist. Which one of these is the good guy again?

Yes, The Outer Worlds has many female characters who are portrayed as hypercompetent. What many people don't seem to notice is that what these women are competent at is climbing the career ladder in a parodically malevolent clown world corporation. The idealistically goofy guys - the Phineas Wellses, the Sanjar Nandis, even the misguided ones like Graham Bryant the leader of the Iconoclasts - they're the real heroes of this setting.

An exchange from Shoutbox last week:

I think it goes beyond the corporate types, even the head of the rebel faction is a doofus and his female second in command is actually the brains behind the operation. In the DLC the head of the facility was a woman whose daughter took over and the father is barely mentioned, you quickly meet a woman who is running things on the ground, then your first side quest in the wilderness is from a crew whose male captain is an idiot and fucking up and the smart female pilot belittling him asks you to help. It invades every aspect of the game in my opinion, not just the corporate politics. I do agree with your chat log though, I don't think they set out with a clear agenda really, and if I asked them on Twitter about it they'd probably be baffled by the idea in general. I think it's just default California liberal arts major female writing that doesn't examine itself. I'd still say that's poor, surface level writing though.

 

[Infinitron]

I think it goes beyond the corporate types, even the head of the rebel faction is a doofus and his female second in command is actually the brains behind the operation.

Which rebel faction, the Iconoclasts? Like I said, he's the heart of the operation. If you arrange peace between MSI and Iconoclasts, his female second-in-command (Zora Blackwell) will mourn his fate and admit that she never would have been able to bring the group together like he did.

In the Outer Worlds, whether doofuses or not, it's the men who have the most soul. That's why I believe the game's writing isn't intended to be mean-spiritedly agenda-driven. It's just millennials writing about the gender archetypes they're familiar with in real life: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...s-boys-even-stem-subjects-study-finds-n912891

 

[111111111]

Funny thing is there's basically zero commentary on race, sexuality or trans issues to my memory. Also the left/right political divide is pretty jumbled with criticisms of all aspects. It's just VERY focused on feminist ideals. I'd assume a bunch of the writers were Jezebel readers or actual cucks.

Yeah, this is a big problem for me. I like political commentary but not when the political commentary is not something I'm particularly interested in, and if the female characters in TOW do nothing but reinforce feminist ideals, I can't say I'll find them interesting. Likewise if I have the only faction composed of white guys be a KKK-equilvanet, or the only faction composed of black guys be a commentary against slavery and shit.

Man, I really do not understand how people are so very engrossed in the lore let alone `political commentary` of this IP. The game's universe is like some whacko Rick n Morty fanfic. The towns like Byzantium and Edgewater are populated by less than half of an average Bethesda city. Every NPC has cartoonish personalities that I frankly can't bring myself to care about.

Funniest thing was the ending said the colony would thrive by my hand even after I played as a STRICT murderhobo that gunned down every single thing in my path

 

[DalekFlay]

Which rebel faction, the Iconoclasts? Like I said, he's the heart of the operation. If you arrange peace between MSI and Iconoclasts, his female second-in-command (Zora Blackwell) will mourn his fate and admit that she never would have been able to bring the group together like he did.

In the Outer Worlds, whether doofuses or not, it's the men who have the most soul. That's why I believe the game's writing isn't intended to be mean-spiritedly agenda-driven. It's just millennials writing about the gender archetypes they're familiar with in real life: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...s-boys-even-stem-subjects-study-finds-n912891

I understand what you're saying and don't even necessarily disagree with it, I just think it pervades the game's writing to the point where it harms the quality. I just played another couple hours of the DLC and the pattern continues... hunt down two scientists, one is a smart and logical female and the other a drug addict weirdo male. Walking through a merc camp and the guy shooting a target is an idiot who can't hit anything while the female crack shot of the team mocks him. Whether it's based on real life social gender changes or not, it's just too on the nose and repetitive to feel well done IMO. Obviously it doesn't turn me off the game or anything like it would for many drama queens, but I do think it harms the writing. Which is a shame because the corporate satire is done pretty well I think.

 

[Avarize]

Maybe all the male characters are different versions of Sawyer.

Many of us don't need to have ugly women shoved in our faces to understand that videogame women tend to be very attractive.

At least as men we can play a game see characters that look like us instead of some unattainable standard of beauty that women have to compare themselves to. Characters like Kratos, Duke Nukem or the entire Gears of War cast being some of the best examples. As we all know, even the most diminutive codexer has 24 inch pythons.

 

[KVVRR]

Which rebel faction, the Iconoclasts? Like I said, he's the heart of the operation. If you arrange peace between MSI and Iconoclasts, his female second-in-command (Zora Blackwell) will mourn his fate and admit that she never would have been able to bring the group together like he did.

In the Outer Worlds, whether doofuses or not, it's the men who have the most soul. That's why I believe the game's writing isn't intended to be mean-spiritedly agenda-driven. It's just millennials writing about the gender archetypes they're familiar with in real life: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...s-boys-even-stem-subjects-study-finds-n912891

I understand what you're saying and don't even necessarily disagree with it, I just think it pervades the game's writing to the point where it harms the quality. I just played another couple hours of the DLC and the pattern continues... hunt down two scientists, one is a smart and logical female and the other a drug addict weirdo male. Walking through a merc camp and the guy shooting a target is an idiot who can't hit anything while the female crack shot of the team mocks him. Whether it's based on real life social gender changes or not, it's just too on the nose and repetitive to feel well done IMO. Obviously it doesn't turn me off the game or anything like it would for many drama queens, but I do think it harms the writing. Which is a shame because the corporate satire is done pretty well I think.

Now that you mention it I don't think I can recall any female characters which acted as morons within the game. Some quirky, some stoic, some weird, but none stupid, and it's weird because I do recall a few male characters that acted that way.
There certainly were no female characters as annoying as fucking Felix, or as dumb as the guy who hated automatons.

 

[Sigourn]

Man, I really do not understand how people are so very engrossed in the lore let alone `political commentary` of this IP. The game's universe is like some whacko Rick n Morty fanfic. The towns like Byzantium and Edgewater are populated by less than half of an average Bethesda city. Every NPC has cartoonish personalities that I frankly can't bring myself to care about.

Funniest thing was the ending said the colony would thrive by my hand even after I played as a STRICT murderhobo that gunned down every single thing in my path

People think I'm just being edgy when I say it, but I genuinely mean it: the reveal trailer for The Outer Worlds was everything I needed to know the game was going to be 1) Mediocre, 2) Disappointing (naturally), 3) Cringe. You already got the tone of the game and the basic gameplay (which hasn't really evolved since New Vegas). But none of the elements that made Fallout genuinely interesting, and without the budget that makes Bethesda games somewhat interesting to explore.

 

[Infinitron]

Which rebel faction, the Iconoclasts? Like I said, he's the heart of the operation. If you arrange peace between MSI and Iconoclasts, his female second-in-command (Zora Blackwell) will mourn his fate and admit that she never would have been able to bring the group together like he did.

In the Outer Worlds, whether doofuses or not, it's the men who have the most soul. That's why I believe the game's writing isn't intended to be mean-spiritedly agenda-driven. It's just millennials writing about the gender archetypes they're familiar with in real life: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...s-boys-even-stem-subjects-study-finds-n912891

I understand what you're saying and don't even necessarily disagree with it, I just think it pervades the game's writing to the point where it harms the quality. I just played another couple hours of the DLC and the pattern continues... hunt down two scientists, one is a smart and logical female and the other a drug addict weirdo male. Walking through a merc camp and the guy shooting a target is an idiot who can't hit anything while the female crack shot of the team mocks him. Whether it's based on real life social gender changes or not, it's just too on the nose and repetitive to feel well done IMO. Obviously it doesn't turn me off the game or anything like it would for many drama queens, but I do think it harms the writing. Which is a shame because the corporate satire is done pretty well I think.

Now that you mention it I don't think I can recall any female characters which acted as morons within the game. Some quirky, some stoic, some weird, but none stupid, and it's weird because I do recall a few male characters that acted that way.
There certainly were no female characters as annoying as fucking Felix, or as dumb as the guy who hated automatons.

How many female morons have you seen in any game, really? Women as the more sensible sex, rarely very dumb or very smart, is an ingrained stereotype. "Quirky and weird" is usually as far as it gets. You've got the Sublight boss Lilya Hagen who is slowly revealed to be a nutjob, the various upper class twit female NPCs in Byzantium.

What sets TOW apart is the prominent occupational role of women as serious-minded middle manager/sergeant-type characters.

 

[DalekFlay]

without the budget that makes Bethesda games somewhat interesting to explore.

Budget keeping the areas more simple and small is definitely an issue, but honestly I think the biggest hit to exploration is that there's no excitement to finding things. You get metric fucking tons of everything limited (ammo, lockpicks, etc.) and unique items are rarely better than what you can mod yourself. Even when they are, combat is so insanely easy even on "hard" that you don't care anyway. Playing the DLC just hammers this home... a log that talks about a secret stash of adrena time behind a wall panel? Wow, I've only got literally 250 of the fucking things and the combat is so easy I never use them anyway, thank god I found this journal? This game honestly should go into some kind of game developer guidebook on how shitty item and difficulty balance can impact a game's quality to a large degree.

 

[Wesp5]

I just played another couple hours of the DLC and the pattern continues... hunt down two scientists, one is a smart and logical female and the other a drug addict weirdo male. Walking through a merc camp and the guy shooting a target is an idiot who can't hit anything while the female crack shot of the team mocks him. Whether it's based on real life social gender changes or not, it's just too on the nose and repetitive to feel well done IMO.

I completely agree! It's overdone so much that it really hurts. For example if you choose the best ending for Edgewater, you end up with a strong female leader and three strong female fighters crowding the constabulary. How realistic is that? Or take Parvati. She is a sweet female mechanic, fine. She is also a lesbian, okay. And asexual, now they are pushing it. But then at your first stop after Edgewater you meet another sweet female mechanic who is a lesbian and asexual and they fall in love. What are the chances for that to happen? And instead of saving the colony you fly around buying soap and clothes for their date! This must be ironic somehow, but I just find it annoying...

 

[Infinitron]

I just played another couple hours of the DLC and the pattern continues... hunt down two scientists, one is a smart and logical female and the other a drug addict weirdo male. Walking through a merc camp and the guy shooting a target is an idiot who can't hit anything while the female crack shot of the team mocks him. Whether it's based on real life social gender changes or not, it's just too on the nose and repetitive to feel well done IMO.

I completely agree! It's overdone so much that it really hurts. For example if you choose the best ending for Edgewater, you end up with a strong female leader and three strong female fighters crowding the constabulary. How realistic is that? Or take Parvati. She is a sweet female mechanic, fine. She is also a lesbian, okay. And asexual, now they are pushing it. But then at your first stop after Edgewater you meet another sweet female mechanic who is a lesbian and asexual and they fall in love. What are the chances for that to happen? And instead of saving the colony you fly around buying soap and clothes for their date! This must be ironic somehow, but I just find it annoying...

Right, Parvati and her romance is an example of a specific scenario that clearly is meant to be deliberately woke. Like I said, these people aren't subtle. Funnily, it seems to annoy Codexers less than having to meet lots of short-haired female sergeants.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

How many female morons have you seen in any game, really?

Tons of them in games from GTA to Baldur's Gate.

What sets TOW apart is the prominent occupational role of women as serious-minded middle manager/sergeant-type characters.

Tbh, I don't think anything sets TOW apart.

It's Woke Fallout 4 in space.

 

[d1r]

Right, Parvati and her romance is an example of a specific scenario that clearly is meant to be deliberately woke. Like I said, these people aren't subtle. Funnily, it seems to annoy Codexers less than having to meet lots of short-haired female sergeants.

I guess we just were not aware of this romance, because we don't buy woke shit to begin with.

 

[Infinitron]

Tons of them in games from GTA to Baldur's Gate.

Who are the female NPCs in the Baldur's Gate that are "morons" in the way KVVRR seems to be referring to? Ie, not just weird and quirky like the NPCs from The Outer World that I mentioned?

There is a type of female moron in fiction - the Kelly Bundy extreme bimbo stereotype. I'm sure GTA has those, but I don't think they've ever been very well-represented in RPGs. Otherwise, it's usually something like this:

^This is a type of character who is almost always male. That's not a woke thing, it's a human thing.

 

[Something Else]

There is a type of female moron in fiction - the Kelly Bundy extreme bimbo stereotype.

You should watch The Wrong Missy, it's good and the female lead isn't a bimbo, but she is dumb.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Who are the female NPCs in the Baldur's Gate that are "morons" in the way KVVRR seems to be referring to? Ie, not just weird and quirky like the NPCs from The Outer World that I mentioned?

Skie. She's a spoiled, rich idiot who believes an obvious conman.

There are other random NPCs too. Many of the prostitutes are deliberately represented as such in the series.

There is a type of female moron in fiction - the Kelly Bundy extreme bimbo stereotype.

That's not the example KVVRR mentioned though. In fact, he used male characters as the examples.

^This is a type of character who is almost always male. That's not a woke thing, it's a human thing.

Why is that a human thing? Are only men retarded? Do you think there are no retarded women in real life?

In reality, it's probably more to do with famous works utilizing male retards. Forest Gump and Of Mice and Men especially. That combined with wokism is likely responsible, not "humanity".

Again, if I spent enough time, I could come up with a dozen examples, even in RPGs.

The fact is though, I don't actually care about dumb female characters that much. It's not really what I notice or remember most games.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh yeah, here's a genuine female moron from TOW. Zoe Chandler, the television-addicted deserter in Edgewater who gets bored and joins a marauder camp: https://theouterworlds.fandom.com/wiki/Zoe_Chandler (smart enough to get them not to kill her, though)

 

[RK47]

u forgot the complete retard in iconoclasts
if u have low INT u communicate with her perfectly.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Suddenly female morons aren't uncommon in games.