Wasteland The Wasteland 2 Beta Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Jedi Master Radek]

We’re including 30% of the game levels so you can see how Wasteland 2 plays:

20% somehow became 30% overnight....;(

What’s missing? We still have UI to improve on, more skills to add, more player choice, more SFX and of course more areas to explore and we will hone these elements based on your experiences.

So it is what they are gonna improve. As was mentioned earlier.

 

[Zombra]

Is there ANY reason why target fire is not in the combat in this game ???

Yep. In Fallout it just became a game of "shoot the eyes every single time" because why wouldn't you? It's essentially a fluff mechanic. In Wasteland and Wasteland 2 the assumption is that you always want to make the most lethal shot possible; it's abstracted a little more, but requires less user input for the same result.

Going for the eyes should have an added catch.. Like if you want a surefire hit.. aim for the torso.. Fallout was bugged, because aiming for the eyes was just as easy hitting as the rest of the body.. (at high enough stats)... Tweak WL2 so that making targeted hits have an added risk.. but also a reward should it pay off... it's a calculated risk.. it shouldn't be something you do every time in firefights, but sometimes.. even as a high range, awareness type of ranger.

Sure, you could add it in with careful balance, but it really doesn't bring a lot to gameplay. There is stuff like crippling shots on tough melee opponents or whatever, but generally speaking, you just want to kill everything. There doesn't need to be an elaborate system for 10 different ways to shoot a guy with a pistol that requires 3x as many mouse clicks, particularly with a 7 character party. Shoot them, they die. It was good enough for Wasteland and it's not necessary here.

Anyway, it's not my intention to argue this to the ends of the earth ... just saying that there were reasons that a system like this was not included. You may not agree with them, but they're there and that's why the devs didn't put such a system in. It wasn't that they just plumb forgot.

See AOD for various targeted attacks done right.

I like AoD's combat, but that's a single character game. With the larger scale of W2, a bunch of extra controls would bog it down tremendously. The devs have said all along that they don't want every combat to take hours. "Streamlining"? "Dumbing down"? Maybe, compared to some games; but Wasteland didn't have hit locations and its combat was plenty fun (and already time-consuming enough).

 

[AstroZombie]

We’re including 30% of the game levels so you can see how Wasteland 2 plays:

20% somehow became 30% overnight....;(

That's not very nice.

I cannot wait to read all the suggestion from the Skyrimtards that populate Steam.

 

[Grunker]

You didn't shoot for the eyes every time unless you always played a Gifted High PER Small Guns character with a Gauss Rifle. See AOD for various targeted attacks done right.

I want to reserve my opinion until I play through the whole thing, but after a few hours I'm increasingly thinking that WL2 in its current state is meh in every major area. Hope it changes my mind.

My sentiments as well.

 

[Infinitron]

We’re including 30% of the game levels so you can see how Wasteland 2 plays:

20% somehow became 30% overnight....;(

That's not very nice.

I cannot wait to read all the suggestion from the Skyrimtards that populate Steam.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/240760/discussions/ Yeehaw!

 

[aratuk]

For people asking about story, atmosphere, quests, &c., I get the impression that quite a lot remains to be added, but I think a bit too much of what's there now is kind of silly. I'm all in favor of humor and added flavor, but those are elements that should be there in addition to substance — who the rangers are, what they're about, and how this world works. Make me believe the world is fucked up, not a goofy circus sideshow. Right now it's like a sheet cake that's all sugar. Get someone totally humorless to "have fun" with some of the flavor text.

Sort of like how there was a lot more silliness — gags & easter eggs — in Fallout 2 compared to the original Fallout? This is one step further even than that. Don't get me wrong; I do like some of that stuff, but it should probably be balanced with less colorful content. In comedy duos, the clown is always accompanied by a straight man. amirite?

 

[Infinitron]

In addition to that idea, I think ranged accuracy should be decreased if an enemy is adjacent to you. Right now there is no down side to letting an angry sucker with a giant lead pipe bash on your sniper other than his health going down. With a penalty to hit from having an enemy right next to you it would really increase tactical decisions. Do I try to shoot him point black with the lower accuracy, or move away and shoot him (maybe losing attack in the process)? Do I use my melee guy to clear off my ranged guys, or do I rush their ranged guys? There's probably more I'm not thinking of.

Wasn't there lots of drama when Chris Keenan announced the game was doing precisely this? (with snipers only, IIRC)

For people asking about story, atmosphere, quests, &c., I get the impression that quite a lot remains to be added, but I think a bit too much of what's there now is kind of silly. I'm all in favor of humor and added flavor, but those are elements that should be there in addition to substance — who the rangers are, what they're about, and how this world works. Make me believe the world is fucked up, not a goofy circus sideshow. Right now it's like a sheet cake that's all sugar. Get someone totally humorless to "have fun" with some of the flavor text.

Sort of like how there was a lot more silliness — gags & easter eggs — in Fallout 2 compared to the original Fallout? This is one step further even than that. Don't get me wrong; I do like some of that stuff, but it should probably be balanced with less colorful content. In comedy duos, the clown is always accompanied by a straight man. amirite?

Welcome to Wasteland.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

We’re including 30% of the game levels so you can see how Wasteland 2 plays:

20% somehow became 30% overnight....;(

That's not very nice.

I cannot wait to read all the suggestion from the Skyrimtards that populate Steam.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/240760/discussions/ Yeehaw!

So the price serves as a the barrier against the stupid? How much of those 55 euros will go directly to the company?

 

[Decado]

Kiting faggotry.

You're just bootstrapping your argument into position, here. What makes moving and shooting, or shooting then moving, "kiting faggotry"? Other than the fact that you seem to not like it? Kiting is when you exploit the movement mechanic so that you essentially break the combat system, ala FO3. Which is why slower backwards movement was added to FO:NV. Is there any evidence that moving and shooting in WL2 breaks the combat system, or produces an exploit?

 

[AstroZombie]

We’re including 30% of the game levels so you can see how Wasteland 2 plays:

20% somehow became 30% overnight....;(

That's not very nice.

I cannot wait to read all the suggestion from the Skyrimtards that populate Steam.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/240760/discussions/ Yeehaw!

There's a question about the price already because reading is very hard.

 

[MicoSelva]

Early Access already? The backer exclusivity did not last long. Are inXile in need of money after all?

 

[Regvard]

Even in a semi-realistic game meleetards shouldn't be able to get to you except for extreme situations (e.g he jumps out of a bush) anyway. Never bring a knife to a gunfight and all that shit.

 

[visions]

Why should there be a penalty?

Because you won't have as much time to aim and concentrate on the shot. Penalty should be tied to the distance moved.

 

[tuluse]

Wasn't there lots of drama when Chris Keenan announced the game was doing precisely this? (with snipers only, IIRC)

I think that was about sniper rifles not being able to shoot at close range. Which was poorly explained, it as actually just really low percentage, my 2 skill sniper gets 41% at close range, ~80% at medium.

I'm saying if there is an enemy adjacent, all shooting percentages should be lowered.

 

[Decado]

Why should there be a penalty?

Because you won't have as much time to aim and concentrate on the shot. Penalty should be tied to the distance moved.

Well you have APs. How is this not the same thing? You have a limited amount of spaces to move before you can't use your weapon anymore, correct? I'm not playing the beta so maybe I'm missing something here. Please correct if wrong.

 

[aratuk]

Early Access already? The backer exclusivity did not last long. Are inXile in need of money after all?

"Exclusivity" would be ephemeral, anyway. Limiting access increases the incentive to pirate. The only move for them to make was to make it available for people's instant gratification. Pirating an early beta that's going to be patched constantly sounds like hell. At least some people will be buying it.

 

[tuluse]

I was on inXile's Veteran Advisory Panel, which was a thing they set up so they could ask a whole bunch of military veterans questions about things like weapons, radio stuff, movement, load outs, call signs, and other military-life information. It was a really neat experience.

Anyways, this was brought up specifically in our discussions. We spent a lot of time talking about what makes sense for weapon penalties, restrictions, and bonuses, and this was a thing that came up. Some of us suggested that assault rifles have both min and max ranges, outside and inside of which you would face penalties. Someone (actually, it may have been me but I can't remember!) also brought up the idea snipers should not be firing from the standing position, and should be penalized if they are firing without a "spotter" -- in this case, without a team mate standing X number of squares near the shooter.

I don't know how much of our discussions were used in the final product. I don't really like playing betas, so I can't check this out for myself. But seeing the sniper crouch -- even if it is just cosmetic -- is pretty cool, and proof that they were incorporating some of the things we were saying.

It is just cosmetic, but yeah, it is a nice touch.

According to Brother None, stances might make their way into the game, but they're not implemented yet.

 

[tuluse]

Well you have APs. How is this not the same thing? You have a limited amount of spaces to move before you can't use your weapon anymore, correct? I'm not playing the beta so maybe I'm missing something here. Please correct if wrong.

Realism argument: Try to shoot something, then try to run and shoot something at the same time. See which one is harder.

Gamist argument: It increases decision making, and adds tactical challenge

 

[Clockwork Knight]

No amount of steam derp will surpass the requests for romance in the WL2 forum.

You're just bootstrapping your argument into position, here. What makes moving and shooting, or shooting then moving, "kiting faggotry"?

That doesn't necessarily make it so, but it incentives the player to retreat and take potshots at silly AI who wants to reach him. That's why I quoted Radek's strategy to kill a deathclaw at a low level.

 

[Achilles]

When will all the backers gain access to the beta?

 

[Zombra]

Why should there be a penalty?

Because you won't have as much time to aim and concentrate on the shot. Penalty should be tied to the distance moved.

Well you have APs. How is this not the same thing? You have a limited amount of spaces to move before you can't use your weapon anymore, correct? I'm not playing the beta so maybe I'm missing something here. Please correct if wrong.

You're quite right. Time needed to fire is represented by APs. If you have more APs, you can move, shoot again, or do whatever. Moving has no impact on the number of APs needed to take a shot.

 

[Sensuki]

Early Access is up on Steam. $60.

Welp I was wrong. Concede to Infinitron on this one.

 

[Infinitron]

Wasteland 2 is currently the #13 best selling game on Steam.

When will all the backers gain access to the beta?

When all of them buy the beta access addon?

 

[MLMarkland]

No amount of steam derp will surpass the requests for romance in the WL2 forum.

So what you're saying is you want romances in Wasteland 2...

 

[Decado]

Well you have APs. How is this not the same thing? You have a limited amount of spaces to move before you can't use your weapon anymore, correct? I'm not playing the beta so maybe I'm missing something here. Please correct if wrong.

Realism argument: Try to shoot something, then try to run and shoot something at the same time. See which one is harder.

Gamist argument: It increases decision making, and adds tactical challenge

Well now, wait a minute. You are not "running and shooting" correct? You are moving, stopping, then shooting. I mean, that's one of the main features of a grid-based tileset and movement. You are already not allowed to move and shoot at the same time. You're already managing resources to be effective in combat, in this case with APs.

Also, from a realist perspective, elite combat soldiers like Rangers would have no problem both moving and shooting. Though again, what we're talking about here is moving, stopping, and then shooting. Which is something that even a regular soldier can do with lethal efficiency, if they are trained well enough.