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The Witcher 1 Thread

Gastrick

Cipher
Joined
Aug 1, 2020
Messages
1,710
Where does it say then that they stand for order?

I'm referencing this:

I found the ending quite intesting, but i think there are a few holes in the explanations.
For instance, i am not sure he explained why he hated the dwarves/elves so much, especially while his plan rely on other kind of non humans.
On the other hand, i quite enjoyed fighting for saving the soul of the main villain, right before ending his life. Feel like being able to aknowledge both the sympathy for the man and the need to stop him for good.
 

U-8D8

Savant
Joined
May 2, 2018
Messages
168
Where does it say then that they stand for order?
...by exactly the way I outlined? They help Vizima's government in a pro-human fashion and they generally act as a counter balance to the Squirrel's chaotic agenda? That generally their quests have a law and order bent to them, like rescuing hostages from terrorists? I'm reiterating myself at this point.
I'm referencing this:
You're entire basis for how the villain's motivation not make sense is a vague, eight year old post in this thread? Holy fuck, I give up. You're just dense.
 

Karwelas

Dwarf Taffer
Patron
Joined
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Messages
1,065
Location
"Mostly Harmless" planet
Codex Year of the Donut I helped put crap in Monomyth
Random man with bad reading comprehension:
"The story is some cucked "racism is bad" shit, and is more aggressive than usual; [...]
You can see the fantasy staple races getting messed up, where now Dwarves are jews and Elves are american indians."

Witcher setting elves taking continent from gnomes few thousand years ago and performing genocide on them, mirroring situation almost 1:1, with some dwarves calling them out on one of the most important themes of the series - hypocrisy:

poster504x498f8f8f8-pad600x600f8f8f8.u12.jpg
 
Joined
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Messages
1,408
Location
The western road to Erromon.
Where does it say then that they stand for order?

They stand for Order because they move in opposition and are attempting to put down the open rebellion that the Scoia'tael are fomenting. As a paramilitary, they're working at the leave of the King of Temeria to carry out these police actions to restore the King's peace. Within the Order there are multiple factions however. Not all are on the up and up, but I'd say the majority are out for this purpose.

Geralt will justify to himself anything he's doing in his journal. It sounds like you voluntarily sided with the Squirrels on a few quests. As to why the humans are attacking them on sight, it's because Elves in particular, but also dwarves, gnomes etc. have been at war with them for hundreds of years. Friend good, enemy bad. They are in an existential struggle with another militant group who wants to "drive them into the sea". As to humans on an individual level hating elves/dwarves/etc., you'd be hard pressed to find one who doesn't know somebody who has died as a result of Squirrel banditry or in the war with Nilfgard. Few humans care to make distinctions anymore, they just want rid of them. That goes for both sides.

Sapkowski never gave a good reason for the original Humees to hate the Elves because he's a retarded boomer who believes all hatred spawns in a vacuum. A logical conclusion that you could make based on the lore as to why it would be is the humans rapidly outbred the elves and subsequently needed more and more room to live and grow crops etc. This is part of their nature, they can't help how fast they reproduce. Border friction inevitably arose. Wars broke out. Due to the nature of both races, there is no way the non-humans can survive unless the majority of humanity, if not all of it, goes extinct. Non-humans do not reproduce fast enough. That being said, the Elves if they ever had any moral high ground, lost it because they themselves are not native to the world and they have also engaged in active genocide of a certain race called the Vran before humans ever turned up.
 
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Joined
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Messages
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The western road to Erromon.
"For instance, i am not sure he explained why he hated the dwarves/elves so much, especially while his plan rely on other kind of non humans."

Also, the guy who originally wrote this failed to connect certain dots at the end of the game. The main villain has strong motivations for disliking non-humans which I won't spoil here.

Likewise Abigail is not innocent. She's just arguably less guilty than the rest of the Outskirts. We actually have no idea whether or not she was responsible for puppeting Odo into murdering his brother after he scorned her. There's a poppet of Odo that can be found in her house. Not to mention, her sale of the poison to Ilsa knowing full well what its intended use was. Her connections with the Lionhead Spider Cult which iirc is some form of demon worship. The game will let you lynch her and then kill all the other bastards if you so choose. It's a shame that Geralt's dialogue does a poorer job of justifying her execution though. The game forces you to accept what the villagers are saying rather than bringing your own reasoning into play. Regardless, she's no angel.
 
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Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,914
To cheer on a villain group, they'd need to have a well-explained ideology that someone can latch on to. Just one of their captains being a nice guy doesn't cut it. An ideology of why they are against non-humans doesn't seem to be present at all besides that 3rd-hand faked pamphlet.
You focus too much on the pamphlet (which is no different from Monstrum, or Description of the Witcher - a piece of anti-human propaganda).

The non-human faction is essentially a terrorist organization. The "villain group" is there to protect humans against non-humans. That is literally the only reason they need. However, the the non-humans are fucked no matter what they do, simply because they aren't humans. And there will always be some people who will be more than willing to is push "he is a non-human!" button to further whatever agenda they have and keep a vicious circle going (the oppression against non-humans is why there is an organization to fights humans).

This is no different from a pretty woman being called a witch purely because some less pretty women from the village don't like her getting all the men. The racism is just a vehicle that shows how fucked up the world is. You could easily subtitute it with anything else: nationality, religion, etc. and end up with the exactly the same scenarios, even among all-human actors.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
"For instance, i am not sure he explained why he hated the dwarves/elves so much, especially while his plan rely on other kind of non humans."

Also, the guy who originally wrote this failed to connect certain dots at the end of the game. The main villain has strong motivations for disliking non-humans which I won't spoil here.

Likewise Abigail is not innocent. She's just arguably less guilty than the rest of the Outskirts. We actually have no idea whether or not she was responsible for puppeting Odo into murdering his brother after he scorned her. There's a poppet of Odo that can be found in her house. Not to mention, her sale of the poison to Ilsa knowing full well what its intended use was. Her connections with the Lionhead Spider Cult which iirc is some form of demon worship. The game will let you lynch her and then kill all the other bastards if you so choose. It's a shame that Geralt's dialogue does a poorer job of justifying her execution though. The game forces you to accept what the villagers are saying rather than bringing your own reasoning into play. Regardless, she's no angel.
Doesn't matter, got the sex card
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
7,574
Location
Lusitânia
Honestly one of the saddest things of our current socio-political environment is that there seems to be no room for nuance anymore...
Because most people will just take whatever was said, interpret it through their own bias, refuse to consider any other position, and accuse those responsible for implications that most times never even went though their mind
 
Self-Ejected

c2007

Self-Ejected
Joined
May 24, 2017
Messages
1,091
Location
404
Honestly one of the saddest things of our current socio-political environment is that there seems to be no room for nuance anymore...
Because most people will just take whatever was said, interpret it through their own bias, refuse to consider any other position, and accuse those responsible for implications that most times never even went though their mind
Considering, for even a second, the perspective of an other?

Heresy.
 

V17

Educated
Joined
Feb 24, 2022
Messages
275
Because most people will just take whatever was said, interpret it through their own bias, refuse to consider any other position, and accuse those responsible for implications that most times never even went though their mind

Sorry for offtopic, but just today I read a thread of young twitter/reddit style leftists praising the Fallout series (mainly F2, F3 and NV) for being great anti-american leftist propaganda. Anybody who doesn't see it is stupid. And anybody who wants to side with Legion is a fascist.
That surprised me at the very least, so I agree with your observation.
 

Sperrin

Novice
Joined
May 13, 2021
Messages
10
If you are finding the game too easy the FCR mod really spices up the game and makes the combat substantially more challenging. I found the click game play really dull as well despite enjoying the story and could never quite get into the game as not only was it too easy, resources from grindstones, oils, ingredients to orens were all way to common but FCR makes resources far more scare and potions far more important many enemies wont be able to be killed without certain oils applied to your blade. Would highly recommend if you are finding the game play dull. Through be aware that it is absolutely possible to build a non viable character in FCR that won't be able to complete the game, read the FCR manual if you decide to install it.
 

Barbie

Novice
Joined
Nov 10, 2020
Messages
28
I played partway through this game and ended up disliking it more and more until I dropped it. This is supposed to be more mechanically complex and hardcore than the average Console RPG, yet the game is easy and all you need to use to win are a couple Potions. Swallow to heal, and Blizzard to enter God Mode where you avoid all attacks in bullet time. They are both relatively cheap-to-make as well. You can also instakill most single enemies with the first spell you get in the game, by stabbing them after. The swamp plant and ghost dog are the only difficult enemies. This makes oils and bombs useless.

The quest system is decent in this game, and I liked some of the side quests like the Vodyanoi. Most of them are fetch quests though. Already at 2007 it showed exactly where to go on the map and had quest markers, too bad.

The story is some cucked "racism is bad" shit, and is more aggressive than usual; this time "racism" has the power to drive people to randomly kill strangers on the spot. The way you are introduced to game is defending a dwarf who is getting murdered by a group of three cuz raycizm. From what I've heard the main villain hates dwarves and elves for no reason at all. You can see the fantasy staple races getting messed up, where now Dwarves are jews and Elves are american indians. There's also the typical dig at religion and an innocent witch being tried.

You are a terrible troll or playing an entirely different game as to everyone else on the thread. Good on you, but you are wrong.
 

YldrE

Learned
Joined
Nov 18, 2021
Messages
27
The old woman later in the game (who only shows up if you let Abigail die) accuses you of shedding innocent blood if you don't save Abigail

Is this the same woman who shows up as the replacement healer of Act 4?
I don't remember if she had any gifts of foresight or something. If not, her claiming that you spilled innocent blood doesn't really matter because she wouldn't actually know the truth of the matter.
Whether or not she's telling the truth would be a legitimate question anywhere else but not here.

She's not a plot point, her only narrative purpose is to tell you that you failed a quest path because you killed an innocent. Quick throwaway dialogue, no build-up, no flavor, no follow-up, no interactivity ("that's not true, Abigail wasn't innocent", haha no). She's using a generic NPC model and doesn't even have a fucking name; and cherry on top, the good old "magic just knows". That's no real dialogue, that's a narrator vehicle for a quest failure update.

She doesn't have the gift of insight, but the writer does. And the writer is quite clearly telling you that the witch is innocent.

It's not the first time you got beat over the head with such meta considerations. During the original sequence, you can protect Abigail from the villagers (a mob of dirty assholes with pitchforks led by a hysterical religious fanatic, are you getting it yet?) via a heartfelt tirade full of indignation admist a grocery list of damning crimes... or you can side with the villagers with what amounts to a quick "there was that doll so... burn her idc lol".

There are token elements so you can have your "maybe both sides" but the ratio is completely lopsided, and anything that could potentially be definitive is always in favor of the witch's innocence. You need an extraordinary amount of self-deceit to be so blind to the mountains of meta clues that the narrator is throwing at you.
 
Joined
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Messages
1,408
Location
The western road to Erromon.
Likewise Abigail is not innocent. She's just arguably less guilty than the rest of the Outskirts.

She doesn't have the gift of insight, but the writer does. And the writer is quite clearly telling you that the witch is innocent.
I already made the meta considerations you're bringing up when I wrote my analysis. That the devs are trying to lead you to certain obvious conclusions is irrelevant. They have a story to tell. Ultimately, the post-hoc admonishment is ineffective because I saw the evidence, all the evidence, with my own eyes. For lack of an option to condemn all of them, I usually defend Abigail because the crimes of the villagers are more severe. " I chose the lesser evil." is the correct response.
 

Storyfag

Perfidious Pole
Patron
Joined
Feb 17, 2011
Messages
16,241
Location
Stealth Orbital Nuke Control Centre
There are token elements so you can have your "maybe both sides" but the ratio is completely lopsided, and anything that could potentially be definitive is always in favor of the witch's innocence. You need an extraordinary amount of self-deceit to be so blind to the mountains of meta clues that the narrator is throwing at you.

The narrator isn't cohesive in this quest, sadly. It is important to note that Mikul the town guard did NOT rape Ilsa - the Salamandra thugs did. Sadly, Geralt seems not to notice this fact.
 
Joined
May 25, 2021
Messages
1,408
Location
The western road to Erromon.
The narrator isn't cohesive in this quest, sadly. It is important to note that Mikul the town guard did NOT rape Ilsa - the Salamandra thugs did. Sadly, Geralt seems not to notice this fact.

I'm under the assumption he did, but it wasn't solely him. In one of Alvin's visions he says: "Innocent blood... Evil faces twisted by drink and desire. "Plow her well. Show her you're a man!"... blood-stained gold ... the beast is born!"

He's having flashes of things that have happened. Mikul is the only one in particular that fits with the emboldened text because he's a simpleton with something to prove. Salamandra were with him, egging him on before they also took their turn after. Moreover, when turning in the quest you mention you found a young woman's body inside who killed herself. Without even seeing the corpse or getting a description, Mikul instantly proffers Ilsa's name. He didn't ever mention her being missing before then, yet apparently knew she had reason to take her own life. Doesn't jive unless he was complicit.
 

Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,477
Have any of you replayed the original lately ? What's your experience with the CTDs ? I'm trying to replay the enhanced edition director cut GOG version and it crashes a lot. Mostly when initiating cinematic sequences or when loading levels. I haven't installed the memory patch or anything yet, the internet isn't quite clear on what causes the game not to work on newer rigs with win10.
 
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just

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
1,311
Have any of you replayed the original lately ? What's your experience with the CTDs ? I'm trying to replay the enhanced edition director cut GOG version and it crashes a lot. Mostly when initiating cinematic sequences or when loading levels. I haven't installed the memory patch or anything yet, the internet isn't quite clear on what causes the game not to work on newer rigs with win10.
worked on my machine
take the linuxpill (any distro)
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,933
Have any of you replayed the original lately ? What's your experience with the CTDs ? I'm trying to replay the enhanced edition director cut GOG version and it crashes a lot. Mostly when initiating cinematic sequences or when loading levels. I haven't installed the memory patch or anything yet, the internet isn't quite clear on what causes the game not to work on newer rigs with win10.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Witcher#Frequent_game_crashes is the go-to for any issues with old games
 

Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,477
Have any of you replayed the original lately ? What's your experience with the CTDs ? I'm trying to replay the enhanced edition director cut GOG version and it crashes a lot. Mostly when initiating cinematic sequences or when loading levels. I haven't installed the memory patch or anything yet, the internet isn't quite clear on what causes the game not to work on newer rigs with win10.
https://www.pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Witcher#Frequent_game_crashes is the go-to for any issues with old games
So, launching directly from the .exe in admin mode instead of the shortcut solved the problem apparently.
 

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