The Witcher 3 GOTY Edition

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, the base game feels pretty aimless. There are individual scenes that are really well done, but as a whole it's not that well constructed.
Hearts of Stone tells a much more coherent story that doesn't try to force tensions. The base game keeps saying to you that you have to be fast, you have to find Ciri, when in reality there is no such restriction.
HoS doesn't try to go for that bit of forced drama, and more importantly neither expansion interrupts forces you to play through a sequence that completely undermines the tension of the story its trying to tell. Playing as Ciri is a mistake.

I find it amusing though that people think the Witcher Ciri ending is good and the Empress Ciri ending is bad.
The former may be happy in the short term, but in the long term and how shitty being a Witcher is that outcome is not the best choice for Ciri.

 

[Ravielsk]

Fantastic summary

It's fucking sickening the bollocks I read praising TW3's story. It misses SO many beats, and fails at so many basics it's unreal. It just doesn't nail certain storytelling fundamentals, so for all it's lavish presentation and grandeur, at it's core it's actually really shit.

Ciri & the Wild hunt both feel like expansion packs to "The Witcher 3: Geralt wonders around a medieval shithole doing some odd jobs, and putting up with far too much lip off his gobby wench"

To be entirely honest Ciri as a character is overall rather bad. Her character suffers from something I like to call "waifu syndrom", meaning she was initially one of many characters participating in the story but over time became the authors waifu. To be specific the first few Witcher books and stories were special because they took this grounded approach to fantasy where magic exists but that does not mean it governs everything. So often (in the early books) Sapkowski would defy genre conventions by pointing out obvious problems with fantasy cliche such as prophecies. This is how he handled the White frost or the druids foretelling the over-fishing of the seas couple of hundred years in advance. Or racial relationships where the elves are genuinely a bunch of dicks and not just a poor oppressed minority. Same with Ciri she started off as a princess that was relevant because of her claim to the throne of Cintra and the whole elder blood thing was basically waved away as "what does it matter she is vaguely related to some famous elf removed by a couple hundred years". It gave her some latent resistance to certain things (such as the Brokylon forest) but it was never treated as a super power and was seen more as a secondary feature to her royal blood. Basically as if Cintra royalty derived its right to rule not from god(like in our world) but from their vague connection to old elvish royalty.
> But then Ciri got waifud
And suddenly not only is she the most important person for the emperor of this world but also of the next and the one after. She showed amazing aptitude for magic, was able to learn and competently execute the witcher style of combat. Was supposedly absolutely dashing and had worst of all developed a effectively static personality. Where years of being on the run, haunted by dark dreams of a black rider made her... no more cautions or neurotic than an average modern day teen. Then after she had spent I dont even remember how much time living essentially as crack-lesbian-bandit the biggest change to her character was a tattoo on her tight. And she ends the story with basically hugging Geralt and Yenn calling them "Daddy, Mommy" despite her relationship with Yenn being more on the lukewarm side of things. As a added bonus she turned into a bizzare universe defying Marry Sue that casually brought upon the witcher world its equivalent of black death(while of course being 100% fine herself), invented ice skate and mastered said skates enough to beat a guy who decisively kicked her ass before(in fog no less), escaped an inescapable space time warping spell with the help of unicorns(because elves did not factor in her ability to swim) and much more that I cannot recall right now.

So you can imagine how happy I was when the first two games seemed to have dropped her entirely as a plot point. Because her presence alone effectively turned the grounded Witcher world into schlocky Warcraft clone. It made me feel like the devs understood what made the books great in the first place and were on the right track to translate that into the games. Then they made Witcher 3...

 

[Storyfag]

invented ice skate

Now that's going too far, ice skating was a Skelliger passtime for ages.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

As most games, storywise the end is rushed and chopped up.

E.g. they ruined the crones, great villains and a bit of Ravel in them, by making them servants of the wild hunt (wtf???) and easy killable.
Because they needed some sort of closure.

Also Keira Metz best waifu.

Witcher 3 in general feels weirdly rushed in the story department. Everything surrounding Ciri is obviously a late development addition as neither her gameplay nor story sections seem to be actually finished. Her gameplay is just stripped down Geralt with teleport dodges that obviously cover too much ground to be practically useful(outside of that one endgame boss) and no signs(which is fucking bizarre because Ciri was explicitly trained to use magic by Jennefer). Those sections are also miserably short and not communicate anything that could not have been said in dialogue.

As far as the story goes her entire presence appears to have been hastily tacked onto the story as the vast majority of the game is only loosely connected to searching for her. Most mainline quests in fact connect to her via a brief cutscene or an offhand mention that have no bearing on the plot at all. Worst of all the whole "search for Ciri" quest ultimately resolves it self via a obvious deus ex machina, again almost as if unfinished or tacked on at the last minute. Especially in context of the previous two games where nobody even bothered to mention Ciri by name(spoilers: because her story was already fully resolved in the books and bringing her back made no sense even if Geralt had all his memories) its just bizzare to suddenly make the whole game revolve around her and stopping the White Frost.
Which BTW was up until Witcher 3 clearly presented as a natural ecological catastrophe(like the sun dying) that is simply destined to happen far into the future either way and had nothing to do with Ciri or elder blood but was exaggerated by prophets who had no real idea what they saw. Hell, the whole story of Witcher 1 was clearly written to establish that Ciri and her elder blood are not as rare or unique and that others might possess it as well(a.k.a Alvin).

It smells of rewrites or just plain desperation as the release date was getting closer and the game was only 50% done.

Fantastic summary

It's fucking sickening the bollocks I read praising TW3's story. It misses SO many beats, and fails at so many basics it's unreal. It just doesn't nail certain storytelling fundamentals, so for all it's lavish presentation and grandeur, at it's core it's actually really shit.

Ciri & the Wild hunt both feel like expansion packs to "The Witcher 3: Geralt wonders around a medieval shithole doing some odd jobs, and putting up with far too much lip off his gobby wench"

When people praise witcher 3's story I assume they're referring to:
Bloody Baron
Random monster hunt quests
DLC

The actual main story itself after the bloody baron is completely forgettable. A few highlights(like the quest where the witchers get drunk, the one where you travel between various worlds), but otherwise completely forgettable.
The monster hunt quests are the meat and potatoes of the base game, and they're good.

 

[Ravielsk]

invented ice skate

Now that's going too far, ice skating was a Skelliger passtime for ages.

Ok, fine. She fashioned them on the spot out of some meat cleavers or something like that on the spot and when ham with it. My point stands, that moment was poorly written and Mary Sue as hell.

When people praise witcher 3's story I assume they're referring to:
Bloody Baron
Random monster hunt quests
DLC

The actual main story itself after the bloody baron is completely forgettable. A few highlights(like the quest where the witchers get drunk, the one where you travel between various worlds), but otherwise completely forgettable.
The monster hunt quests are the meat and potatoes of the base game, and they're good.

I assume most never got past that particular quest and just assumed that the rest of the game retains that level of quality.

 

[pomenitul]

The base game keeps saying to you that you have to be fast, you have to find Ciri, when in reality there is no such restriction.

CRPGs are painfully horrible at striking a balance between plot-driven urgency and granting the PC enough freedom to roam and enjoy the illusion of agency. There are a couple of exceptions, of course, but this is a recurrent problem and something that the genre as a whole needs to address going forward.

 

[Falksi]

As most games, storywise the end is rushed and chopped up.

E.g. they ruined the crones, great villains and a bit of Ravel in them, by making them servants of the wild hunt (wtf???) and easy killable.
Because they needed some sort of closure.

Also Keira Metz best waifu.

Witcher 3 in general feels weirdly rushed in the story department. Everything surrounding Ciri is obviously a late development addition as neither her gameplay nor story sections seem to be actually finished. Her gameplay is just stripped down Geralt with teleport dodges that obviously cover too much ground to be practically useful(outside of that one endgame boss) and no signs(which is fucking bizarre because Ciri was explicitly trained to use magic by Jennefer). Those sections are also miserably short and not communicate anything that could not have been said in dialogue.

As far as the story goes her entire presence appears to have been hastily tacked onto the story as the vast majority of the game is only loosely connected to searching for her. Most mainline quests in fact connect to her via a brief cutscene or an offhand mention that have no bearing on the plot at all. Worst of all the whole "search for Ciri" quest ultimately resolves it self via a obvious deus ex machina, again almost as if unfinished or tacked on at the last minute. Especially in context of the previous two games where nobody even bothered to mention Ciri by name(spoilers: because her story was already fully resolved in the books and bringing her back made no sense even if Geralt had all his memories) its just bizzare to suddenly make the whole game revolve around her and stopping the White Frost.
Which BTW was up until Witcher 3 clearly presented as a natural ecological catastrophe(like the sun dying) that is simply destined to happen far into the future either way and had nothing to do with Ciri or elder blood but was exaggerated by prophets who had no real idea what they saw. Hell, the whole story of Witcher 1 was clearly written to establish that Ciri and her elder blood are not as rare or unique and that others might possess it as well(a.k.a Alvin).

It smells of rewrites or just plain desperation as the release date was getting closer and the game was only 50% done.

Fantastic summary

It's fucking sickening the bollocks I read praising TW3's story. It misses SO many beats, and fails at so many basics it's unreal. It just doesn't nail certain storytelling fundamentals, so for all it's lavish presentation and grandeur, at it's core it's actually really shit.

Ciri & the Wild hunt both feel like expansion packs to "The Witcher 3: Geralt wonders around a medieval shithole doing some odd jobs, and putting up with far too much lip off his gobby wench"

When people praise witcher 3's story I assume they're referring to:
Bloody Baron
Random monster hunt quests
DLC

The actual main story itself after the bloody baron is completely forgettable. A few highlights(like the quest where the witchers get drunk, the one where you travel between various worlds), but otherwise completely forgettable.
The monster hunt quests are the meat and potatoes of the base game, and they're good.

Completely agree. After the Bloody Baron it's just a bunch of people fetch quests until the Witchers get their dresses on, and the Wild Hunt finally turn up to the party.

The expansions are a thousand times better.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

As most games, storywise the end is rushed and chopped up.

E.g. they ruined the crones, great villains and a bit of Ravel in them, by making them servants of the wild hunt (wtf???) and easy killable.
Because they needed some sort of closure.

Also Keira Metz best waifu.

Witcher 3 in general feels weirdly rushed in the story department. Everything surrounding Ciri is obviously a late development addition as neither her gameplay nor story sections seem to be actually finished. Her gameplay is just stripped down Geralt with teleport dodges that obviously cover too much ground to be practically useful(outside of that one endgame boss) and no signs(which is fucking bizarre because Ciri was explicitly trained to use magic by Jennefer). Those sections are also miserably short and not communicate anything that could not have been said in dialogue.

As far as the story goes her entire presence appears to have been hastily tacked onto the story as the vast majority of the game is only loosely connected to searching for her. Most mainline quests in fact connect to her via a brief cutscene or an offhand mention that have no bearing on the plot at all. Worst of all the whole "search for Ciri" quest ultimately resolves it self via a obvious deus ex machina, again almost as if unfinished or tacked on at the last minute. Especially in context of the previous two games where nobody even bothered to mention Ciri by name(spoilers: because her story was already fully resolved in the books and bringing her back made no sense even if Geralt had all his memories) its just bizzare to suddenly make the whole game revolve around her and stopping the White Frost.
Which BTW was up until Witcher 3 clearly presented as a natural ecological catastrophe(like the sun dying) that is simply destined to happen far into the future either way and had nothing to do with Ciri or elder blood but was exaggerated by prophets who had no real idea what they saw. Hell, the whole story of Witcher 1 was clearly written to establish that Ciri and her elder blood are not as rare or unique and that others might possess it as well(a.k.a Alvin).

It smells of rewrites or just plain desperation as the release date was getting closer and the game was only 50% done.

Fantastic summary

It's fucking sickening the bollocks I read praising TW3's story. It misses SO many beats, and fails at so many basics it's unreal. It just doesn't nail certain storytelling fundamentals, so for all it's lavish presentation and grandeur, at it's core it's actually really shit.

Ciri & the Wild hunt both feel like expansion packs to "The Witcher 3: Geralt wonders around a medieval shithole doing some odd jobs, and putting up with far too much lip off his gobby wench"

When people praise witcher 3's story I assume they're referring to:
Bloody Baron
Random monster hunt quests
DLC

The actual main story itself after the bloody baron is completely forgettable. A few highlights(like the quest where the witchers get drunk, the one where you travel between various worlds), but otherwise completely forgettable.
The monster hunt quests are the meat and potatoes of the base game, and they're good.

Completely agree. After the Bloody Baron it's just a bunch of people fetch quests until the Witchers get their dresses on, and the Wild Hunt finally turn up to the party.

The expansions are a thousand times better.

Yeah the Bloody Baron is the only good part of Act I. After I completed that quest chain the rest of the Act got boring.

 

[Okagron]

The thing i dislike the most about the story is how lame the main villains are. They look pretty fucking cool and imposing, but they hardly have any character. The only one that has even an ounce of substance in the main three villains is Caranthir, what with the whole being created by Avallach, but that's about it. Ge'els actually some character (not much, still more than main three villains), but he appears so late into the story that it hardly matters. And no, i didn't want Eredin to be relatable or anything like that, i just wanted some insight into his character beyond what the game gives (which is very little).

The villains in the expansions are far better written.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

how lame the main villains are.

the who?

 

[ekrolo2]

Yeah, the base game feels pretty aimless. There are individual scenes that are really well done, but as a whole it's not that well constructed.
Hearts of Stone tells a much more coherent story that doesn't try to force tensions. The base game keeps saying to you that you have to be fast, you have to find Ciri, when in reality there is no such restriction.
HoS doesn't try to go for that bit of forced drama, and more importantly neither expansion interrupts forces you to play through a sequence that completely undermines the tension of the story its trying to tell. Playing as Ciri is a mistake.

I find it amusing though that people think the Witcher Ciri ending is good and the Empress Ciri ending is bad.
The former may be happy in the short term, but in the long term and how shitty being a Witcher is that outcome is not the best choice for Ciri.

Ciri wouldn't rule Nilfgaard, not after all the shit they put her through the books. Hell, given what Emhyr originally wanted to do to Ciri when he found her, it should be everyone's prime fucking directive to keep her as far away from him as possible.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Yeah, the base game feels pretty aimless. There are individual scenes that are really well done, but as a whole it's not that well constructed.
Hearts of Stone tells a much more coherent story that doesn't try to force tensions. The base game keeps saying to you that you have to be fast, you have to find Ciri, when in reality there is no such restriction.
HoS doesn't try to go for that bit of forced drama, and more importantly neither expansion interrupts forces you to play through a sequence that completely undermines the tension of the story its trying to tell. Playing as Ciri is a mistake.

I find it amusing though that people think the Witcher Ciri ending is good and the Empress Ciri ending is bad.
The former may be happy in the short term, but in the long term and how shitty being a Witcher is that outcome is not the best choice for Ciri.

Ciri wouldn't rule Nilfgaard, not after all the shit they put her through the books. Hell, given what Emhyr originally wanted to do to Ciri when he found her, it should be everyone's prime fucking directive to keep her as far away from him as possible.

game emhyr is a lot different than book emhyr

 

[ekrolo2]

Yeah, the base game feels pretty aimless. There are individual scenes that are really well done, but as a whole it's not that well constructed.
Hearts of Stone tells a much more coherent story that doesn't try to force tensions. The base game keeps saying to you that you have to be fast, you have to find Ciri, when in reality there is no such restriction.
HoS doesn't try to go for that bit of forced drama, and more importantly neither expansion interrupts forces you to play through a sequence that completely undermines the tension of the story its trying to tell. Playing as Ciri is a mistake.

I find it amusing though that people think the Witcher Ciri ending is good and the Empress Ciri ending is bad.
The former may be happy in the short term, but in the long term and how shitty being a Witcher is that outcome is not the best choice for Ciri.

Ciri wouldn't rule Nilfgaard, not after all the shit they put her through the books. Hell, given what Emhyr originally wanted to do to Ciri when he found her, it should be everyone's prime fucking directive to keep her as far away from him as possible.

game emhyr is a lot different than book emhyr

Not really. Game Emhyr still betrayed his own family, orphaned his daughter, forced her grandmother into suicide when his army ransacked her home, forced Ciri into years on the run from assassins and bounty hunters that nearly got her killed dozens of times over. The only difference is him not wanting to impregnate her like in the books but all the other stuff is very canon in the games.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Geralt wouldn't want Ciri to become a Witcher either, he'd want her to live a normal life where the pay isn't garbage, you won't get raped by bandits and you're treated like shit. Which mind you still isn't to become an Empress, but being an Empress is still more normal than being a Witcher.

Both endings can be nitpicked, its just that the Empress ending is better, imo, because the outcome isn't as bleak if you think about the consequences, and seeing Ciri get the confidence to become the ruler of the most powerful nation in the world is more character development than getting the confidence to do what she's already doing. The Witcher ending feels like happy Shounen shit to me, it doesn't sit right, where they just run off and have adventures together and ignore the bigger picture.

Speaking of the books I'm confused, isn't there already an Empress of Nilfgaard?

 

[Storyfag]

isn't there already an Empress of Nilfgaard

There is. The Fake Ciri, whom Emhyr wed for political gains, but whom he grew to actually love. But if they are childless, having the real Ciri succeed them isn't completely dumb.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

isn't there already an Empress of Nilfgaard

There is. The Fake Ciri, whom Emhyr wed for political gains, but whom he grew to actually love. But if they are childless, having the real Ciri succeed them isn't completely dumb.

True, but wouldn't the Nilfgaardians think its strange how Emyr suddenly pulls an heir out of his arse, who has the same name as his wife? As plot points go it's kind of odd.

 

[Storyfag]

isn't there already an Empress of Nilfgaard

There is. The Fake Ciri, whom Emhyr wed for political gains, but whom he grew to actually love. But if they are childless, having the real Ciri succeed them isn't completely dumb.

True, but wouldn't the Nilfgaardians think its strange how Emyr suddenly pulls an heir out of his arse, who has the same name as his wife? As plot points go it's kind of odd.

Not denying that.

 

[moleman]

invented ice skate

Now that's going too far, ice skating was a Skelliger passtime for ages.

Ok, fine. She fashioned them on the spot out of some meat cleavers or something like that on the spot and when ham with it. My point stands, that moment was poorly written and Mary Sue as hell...

She used the ice skates of Vysogotha's daughter, that old hermit that saved her. And for her being a Mary Sue, she fails a lot and gets saved by others, by Vysogotha for example which makes that Mary Sue argument a bit weak. Yes, she has special powers because she is Elder Blood but that was the whole point of the story.
That moment on the ice you mentioned was written very well imho. She did NOT fight Bonhart on the ice. He wasn't even there that moment. She did not even wish to fight him, because she was clearly terrified of him.

 

[Aemar]

Geralt wouldn't want Ciri to become a Witcher either, he'd want her to live a normal life where the pay isn't garbage, you won't get raped by bandits and you're treated like shit. Which mind you still isn't to become an Empress, but being an Empress is still more normal than being a Witcher.

Both endings can be nitpicked, its just that the Empress ending is better, imo, because the outcome isn't as bleak if you think about the consequences, and seeing Ciri get the confidence to become the ruler of the most powerful nation in the world is more character development than getting the confidence to do what she's already doing. The Witcher ending feels like happy Shounen shit to me, it doesn't sit right, where they just run off and have adventures together and ignore the bigger picture.

Speaking of the books I'm confused, isn't there already an Empress of Nilfgaard?

You can say that there's a happy outcome for Ciri, where she becomes a witcher, and a good outcome, the empress path. As a capable ruler she would be far more useful to the world than a mere witcher.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Geralt doesn't care about politics, he'd want what would make Ciri safe + happy. I agree that it's not the Witcher path, but it's definitely what he'd pick over empress.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Geralt doesn't care about politics, he'd want what would make Ciri safe + happy. I agree that it's not the Witcher path, but it's definitely what he'd pick over empress.

Most likely, but those are the choices we've been given, and of those Empress is the safer option that actually guarantees a good future for her. She's not even that unhappy, because if she visits in Blood and Wine she seems fine with it. A little annoyed with her instructors, but she was like that during Witcher training anyway.
I think a shield maiden is best for her, really. She's apparently good friends with Clan an Crach already, she's allowed to fight and go on adventures with her pals instead of alone like a Witcher, she'll have status and can still have a normal life, all without the stigma of being on the Path.

 

[Ravielsk]

invented ice skate

Now that's going too far, ice skating was a Skelliger passtime for ages.

Ok, fine. She fashioned them on the spot out of some meat cleavers or something like that on the spot and when ham with it. My point stands, that moment was poorly written and Mary Sue as hell...

She used the ice skates of Vysogotha's daughter, that old hermit that saved her. And for her being a Mary Sue, she fails a lot and gets saved by others, by Vysogotha for example which makes that Mary Sue argument a bit weak. Yes, she has special powers because she is Elder Blood but that was the whole point of the story.
That moment on the ice you mentioned was written very well imho. She did NOT fight Bonhart on the ice. He wasn't even there that moment. She did not even wish to fight him, because she was clearly terrified of him.

Fair enough. I had to fish out the books from the attic but you are correct. My bad, its been over a year since I read them so I must have misremembered.

 

[Storyfag]

She's apparently good friends with Clan an Crach already

They consider themselves her vassals.

 

[vota DC]

Yeah, the base game feels pretty aimless. There are individual scenes that are really well done, but as a whole it's not that well constructed.
Hearts of Stone tells a much more coherent story that doesn't try to force tensions. The base game keeps saying to you that you have to be fast, you have to find Ciri, when in reality there is no such restriction.
HoS doesn't try to go for that bit of forced drama, and more importantly neither expansion interrupts forces you to play through a sequence that completely undermines the tension of the story its trying to tell. Playing as Ciri is a mistake.

I find it amusing though that people think the Witcher Ciri ending is good and the Empress Ciri ending is bad.
The former may be happy in the short term, but in the long term and how shitty being a Witcher is that outcome is not the best choice for Ciri.

Ciri enjoy being strange, so becoming witcher and Redania victory would help her to be herself while becoming empress she would just become a tamed monkey of a joke country that has no reason to exists and It Is doomed to fail if you don't murder both the only King that oppose them AND Not-Hoffa

 

[Gerrard]

Where does it imply that Gaunter had something to do with Alvin?

Right here.

Fucking terrible fanfiction still continues it seems. Gaunter doesn't even fit the setting as an entity. Very easy to spot game-only fanboys that fellate this character.

Geralt wouldn't want Ciri to become a Witcher either, he'd want her to live a normal life where the pay isn't garbage, you won't get raped by bandits and you're treated like shit. Which mind you still isn't to become an Empress, but being an Empress is still more normal than being a Witcher.

Both endings can be nitpicked, its just that the Empress ending is better, imo, because the outcome isn't as bleak if you think about the consequences, and seeing Ciri get the confidence to become the ruler of the most powerful nation in the world is more character development than getting the confidence to do what she's already doing. The Witcher ending feels like happy Shounen shit to me, it doesn't sit right, where they just run off and have adventures together and ignore the bigger picture.

Speaking of the books I'm confused, isn't there already an Empress of Nilfgaard?

You can say that there's a happy outcome for Ciri, where she becomes a witcher, and a good outcome, the empress path. As a capable ruler she would be far more useful to the world than a mere witcher.

I'm not sure what would make anyone think she would be a capable ruler.