Wizardry The Wizardry Series Thread

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

If anything Wiz8 needs a major scaling down/rebalancing of top items, it's already far too easy for someone familiar with the system.

The best weapon in the game for a midgame boss? A bit too much...

 

[Shadenuat]

Well never seeing best weapon because it has 0.XXX chance of dropping from obscure enemy and you need to reload and shit is't much better. And random loot really screws some builds and classes.
Again, Nessy is mid-game boss for us. And balancing should go with somebody playing game first or second time in mind. First time I've beaten the game, I left her alone because was afraid of raewur rape. Carsomyr was inside Firkraag, and most people were slaughtered by him on any difficulty to return and kill him later. It's afterwards they figured out you can Doom him and turn him into a squirell. Or cloudkill so he'd choke do the death.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

*light* *sword* isn't supposed to be used normally - it's a secret drop, 1% chance or something for a reason. If you reload 1000 times for it, good for you - you make an easy game even easier.

Random loot doesn't really screw over anything - there are good, non-rare drop weapons available for all classes. If anything it's an element of suprise when you open the Davy Jones Locker - "OMG Excalibur!" - not that you need Excalibur or some such to finish the game.

I'm OK with vanilla difficulty for a first-timer as it is, btw. Nessie would probably rape someone who's totally unprepared, but that's good - it's a goddamn sea monster, be afraid! You can totally avoid her anyway, it's just XP.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Well, some classes are royally fucked if you want to larp them. For example a Samurai using actual samurai swords instead of bloodlust etc. Savescumming for the Bushido blade is not that bad, but have fun trying to get Muramasa. The aforementioned dagger ninja is another one if you'd like two Sais.

 

[Shadenuat]

I agree that there are a lot of good weapons aside from that sword, but they still don't cover all classes well enough imo. There are enough of one-handed swords, but everything else kinda lacks, particularly exotic weapons like katanas, or your basic axes.
Yeah, nothing is wrong with Nessie. I was just mentioning her to my point that: metagamers gonna metagame, but random loot still kinda sucks.

Savescumming for the Bushido blade is not that bad, but have fun trying to get Muramasa

Exactly.
IMO savescumming for Bushido should not exist even if it's not "hard". Well, I guess I already covered up that I don't like random loot and don't see the point of 1% of drop of imba weapon which is better than anything you can get by actually making real effort and solving some "dungeon" like Rapax castle/killing strong boss.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Yeah, Samurai are fucked on everything, from unique armor to weapons + having the most useless spellset as a hybrid (Mage).

At least Faerie Ninjas get a "guaranteed" CoC + Alchemy (best hybrid spellset next to Divinity).

 

[I_am_Ian]

Is the Cane of Corpus a guaranteed drop? I didn't think it was.

All that aside, Wizardry 8 does a pretty good job of making you make tough decisions when it comes to weapons and armor. I like it this way. There is no guarantee your build will be provided for. You just have to make do with what you get. It inspires you to rely on your entire party to defeat enemies not just creating overpowered characters. It's part of the subtle brilliance of this game.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

50% or so off Don Barlone, but it doesn't matter. It usually shouldn't take more than 2 deaths for him to drop it, statistically.

I think the weakness of, say, Samurai compared to a pure Fighter is just the sign of Wizardry's unfinished state. More Samurai swords would have easily fixed that. Making "lightning strike" or whatever the name for the multi-hit skill is skill-dependent and not completely random would have helped, too.

It was kinda disheartening when playing Wiz8 for the first time and making an "exotic" class like a Ninja or Samurai and hoping for some tasty, unique gear, and then not finding anything at all for most of the game. This is actually one of my biggest motivators to play with Dodd's or Reforged - for all their flaws, at least they add a ton of new stuff for the "underdogs".

 

[I_am_Ian]

If you're a big fan of vanilla, as I am, avoid those complete overhaul type of mods. I'm certain there's mods out there that only rebalance the randomness of loot or some such so you're guaranteed to find some rare stuff. It's been so long since I was into the mods I can't remember what they're called. I tried out the reforged mod and it's so ugly at the beginning I lost interest. Although I have a hard time playing any mod because it just feels like cheating or not playing the game as it was intended. If only the devs would kickstart a "complete game patch".

Edit: try Passerby's Random Mod v0.2. I think it's the one that increases rare drops.

 

[DraQ]

Good way to combine randomness with not screwing some builds would be having more top-tier items for given build and having guaranteed drop of randomly chosen one.

Also, Samurai isn't quite screwed - you may not get guaranteed powerful weeaboo blades, but there are several powerful samurai compatible swords that are guaranteed to be in your game - Fang, Ivory Blade, Bloodlust. The former two are even Faerie compatible as well, and if you have Mook Samurai for some reason...



Ok, they are not katanas, but you can swing them and they perform extremely well.

 

[octavius]

The random encounter frequency sure is higher than in Wiz 6.
EDIT: Some times I can't even fucking move or turn after an encounter before a new one arrives. Didn't this shit become obsolete with Bard's Tale 3 several years earlier?

But so far we have mowed all opposition down like they were consoleratards invalids. I didn't do any save scrumming or only equip the best items before importing, but I was lucky enough to get Maenad's Lance, The Muramasa Blade, Bushido Blade and Spear of Death, so I have five characters who can hit critically. I think the only really good weapon I lost was The Avanger.

A few questions for the experts:

1. Is it necessary to turn around and check walls for messages or secret doors? There were a few places you had to check walls for messages in Wiz 6. Random encounters are checked when turning as well as moving...
Never mind, I just remembered that the manual says you need to check walls for lever and buttons.

2. How does weapons with critical hit ability work? Do they add to already existing skill?

3. The text says my Bard (I converted one of my Ninjas) "abuses" the Poet's Lute. What's up with that? Is it just a "humourous" way of saying that the Sleep spell didn't hit anyone (since they were already killed)?
EDIT: I guess it's because my Bard has no Music skill - yet.

 

[mondblut]

I think you think too much. This game (as many others) can be completed without all this metagaming crap.

Yes, but where is the fun then?

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

In being tougher than stupid ones and zeros when it's not absolutely necessary (see Wiz 6, or even M&M 1, 2). You're mondblut or what ?

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Yeah, Mook is awesome with Giant's Blade.
I always thought it was stupid tho that the most physically powerful race, the Lizardman, couldn't wield it.
That and the Rapax could? Booo.
Plus, the Rapax character was a bit of a disappointment. A fucking Mage? Really?
Such bullshit. Should have given us a berserker or something like a badass samurai heretic who rails against Sedexus, or even a Rapax Prince that is pissed he's being passed over for advancement.

 

[ghostdog]

Fun is beating the game beforehand, in excel format. Afterwards you just play the game to validate that your metagaming knowledge has indeed given you the most powerful combination of builds and progression through the game. If somehow things don't go exactly as planned, rinse and repeat. That's fun.

 

[DraQ]

Yeah, Mook is awesome with Giant's Blade.
I always thought it was stupid tho that the most physically powerful race, the Lizardman, couldn't wield it.

I thought it was more of a "so long it clips the ground when swung by a normal height person" problem than just heft.

Plus, the Rapax character was a bit of a disappointment. A fucking Mage? Really?
Such bullshit. Should have given us a berserker or something like a badass samurai heretic who rails against Sedexus, or even a Rapax Prince that is pissed he's being passed over for advancement.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So you agree then?
I am happy that a scaly is on my side.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Yeah, Samurai are fucked on everything, from unique armor to weapons + having the most useless spellset as a hybrid (Mage).

At least Faerie Ninjas get a "guaranteed" CoC + Alchemy (best hybrid spellset next to Divinity).

Have to disagree here. Magic spell book is very good, because it has Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield and Elemental Shield. The first two are very easy to learn and are Mage-exclusive (and also cannot be cast from any gadget/instrument), so if you don't have a pure mage in your team than a samurai with these spells will be a great asset. And as much as ninja was nerfed in Wiz8, him having the Alchemy spellbook is actually one of his biggest flaws I think. He has so many skills to develop that it's almost sure you won't have any points left for alchemy, unless you're doing some weird build. And that spellbook makes him count as a three classes hybrid, raising his exp requirements and making him even weaker. I believe that stripping him of spells and giving the same exp table as other hybrids would make ninja a much more viable choice.

Also, Samurai isn't quite screwed - you may not get guaranteed powerful weeaboo blades, but there are several powerful samurai compatible swords that are guaranteed to be in your game - Fang, Ivory Blade, Bloodlust.

Well, that's kinda the point. When I pick a class like samurai, monk or a ninja I want to larp it a bit, not give it the most powerful gear available. Also, it's just another proof of how the drop is fucked - a very powerful sword usable by all melee classes is a guaranteed drop early on in the game, but a goddamn Bushido blade, which isn't even that powerful, can be dropped only from one enemy much later on with a chance so small, that it's almost a given you won't get it without Shift+Q overdrive?

 

[octavius]

So how high Assasy skill do you need before you can get some info on the loot from the beginner dungeon?

And why does my Monk with 30 Skulduggery constantly fail with disarming traps and picking locks? There is quite a difference between combat difficulty (so far enemies have barely been able to touch me) and thievery difficulty (100% failure rate so far).

 

[DraQ]

So you agree then?
I am happy that a scaly is on my side.

Well, your ideas are neat and certainly better than essentially useless Sexus.

Have to disagree here. Magic spell book is very good, because it has Enchanted Blade, Missile Shield and Elemental Shield. The first two are very easy to learn and are Mage-exclusive (and also cannot be cast from any gadget/instrument), so if you don't have a pure mage in your team than a samurai with these spells will be a great asset. And as much as ninja was nerfed in Wiz8, him having the Alchemy spellbook is actually one of his biggest flaws I think. He has so many skills to develop that it's almost sure you won't have any points left for alchemy, unless you're doing some weird build. And that spellbook makes him count as a three classes hybrid, raising his exp requirements and making him even weaker. I believe that stripping him of spells and giving the same exp table as other hybrids would make ninja a much more viable choice.

Agreed about mage spells, but you can pick what to concentrate on with your ninja. You will want critical strike, but other than that it's free game (although some throwing and sling won't hurt either due to class special abilities).

Well, that's kinda the point. When I pick a class like samurai, monk or a ninja I want to larp it a bit, not give it the most powerful gear available. Also, it's just another proof of how the drop is fucked - a very powerful sword usable by all melee classes is a guaranteed drop early on in the game, but a goddamn Bushido blade, which isn't even that powerful, can be dropped only from one enemy much later on with a chance so small, that it's almost a given you won't get it without Shift+Q overdrive?

Well, having guaranteed Muramasa, which can be used by samurai and samurai only, but only small chance that there will be something useful for all the other melee sword users would be much worse, don't you agree?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Obviously I didn't mean going from one extreme to another. I can stomach Muramasa being random, since it's a high end weapon, but adding one or two lower tier samurai blades and making at least one of them guaranteed would go a long way.

And I stand by the point that Alchemy spell book is mostly useless for hybrids, esp ninja with his high exp requirements, bar putting 15 point necessary to mix light and medium healing potions. Alchemy shines with high level instakill and status inflicting spells which are inaccessible for hybrids bar excessive grinding.

 

[Fowyr]

So how high Assasy skill do you need before you can get some info on the loot from the beginner dungeon?
And why does my Monk with 30 Skulduggery constantly fail with disarming traps and picking locks? There is quite a difference between combat difficulty (so far enemies have barely been able to touch me) and thievery difficulty (100% failure rate so far).

Afair, assay mostly useless. It only displays what class can use this weapon. Identify spell is a way to go.

30 is a really small skill for skulduggery , train it some more.

 

[mondblut]

So how high Assasy skill do you need before you can get some info on the loot from the beginner dungeon?

Assay never gives away important information anyway. Just the name of an item and its restrictions. You still need to cast identify to get the number-crunching, they provide 2 different batches of information.

 

[octavius]

30 is a really small skill for skulduggery , train it some more.

I thought it would be enough in the beginning, but apparantly not. I have no chance on locks with 3 tumblers, but managed finally to pick one with 2 tumblers. Problem is that it's my Monk who acts as locksmith. He started as Thief and switched to Monk when reaching 100 Skulduggery. But after importing to Wiz 7 his Skulduggery was reduced to 30 (I know; bad planning). I could change him back to Thief, but I'd rather change him to Ninja, but he lacks 1 point in Intelligence. Oh well, he'll level up soon. If he doesn't get that point in Int I guess I'll switch him back to Thief.
EDIT: it's a moot point. Turns out my Monk is able to increase his Skulduggery skill, even though it's not a possible starting skill for monks.

As for Assay vs Identify, none of my characters have the Identify spell, so in the meantime it would have been nice to at least get basic info on items, like their names.

 

[Fowyr]

You can increase any of already open skills and they all should work (except of kirijutsu). Wiz7 is a wet dream of powergamer.