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Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Whiran

Magister
Joined
Feb 3, 2014
Messages
641
I wonder if this game will make the same mistake the tabletop made and give all the fun Foci to Intellect-based characters and all the shit ones to Might. Nanos could get "SHOOTS FIRE" or "IS MAGNETO", and all Might would get was "HAS A BOW" or "CAN HOLD *TWO* SWORDS AT ONCE".
I'm a little confused by this comment. Maybe you didn't read the character creation notes correctly because there were no restrictions for a glaive (fighter) to pick a focus that was nano-based.

For example a glaive could easily pick "Bears a Halo of Fire" - the rulebook even writes, "Although most of those who take up this mantle are nanos, flame-wielding glaives and jacks are fearsome indeed."

For "Employs Magnetism" the rulebook suggests that it would be a glaive who would pick this focus, "No one type of character is more likely than any other to employ magnetism, although glaives who wield weapons and wear armor will find it an interesting complement to their powers."

Perhaps you meant the tier abilities - the class abilities and to that I'm a little more baffled. If you wanted to be a magic user then pick being a magic user. Your complaint is similar to complaining that in Dungeons and Dragons wizards don't get lots of fighting abilities and fighter types don't get lots of spells as they level up.
 

HatTrick

Scholar
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
140
Sure, my glaive can pick "Bears a Halo of Fire." Too bad it keys off Intellect, a stat which Glaives start off low in and have no Edge for, meaning it is initially costly to use it. Also, any future Edge added to Intellect is one less Edge you could be having for Might or Speed, the stats you need to have to use your higher tier abilities. It's a small complaint, as one can play unoptimally and still be fine, but I'd rather have some more unique foci for fighter types than "CAN HOLD A SHIELD REAL GOOD". This game is 1 billion years in the fucking future, give me "Wields a biomechanical blade" or "Can shoot his fist out to rocket punch people," for crying out loud.
 

Kem0sabe

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Azores Islands
The entire system is convoluted, after downloading the beta to see how mightily inxile had fucked up, I was surprised that my biggest issues weren't the writing or the art, but in fact the combat system, the character development system, that entire tides thing, the effort put into x action crap.

Game should keep it simpler, all these story faggots aren't there for the numenera rules, but for the ridiculously long walls of text.
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
They should make items that are good for all classes and not base them on just a single stat.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
The entire system is convoluted, after downloading the beta to see how mightily inxile had fucked up, I was surprised that my biggest issues weren't the writing or the art, but in fact the combat system, the character development system, that entire tides thing, the effort put into x action crap.

Game should keep it simpler, all these story faggots aren't there for the numenera rules, but for the ridiculously long walls of text.

uuuuuuuhhhhhhh wut?

Numenera has barely any system at all. There's, like, one roll. One check for everything. And then there are three (count them, three) rules on how you can make the target number go down. And that's about it for the mechanics.

Everything else is fleshing it out. The tides thing for example isn't Numenera at all; it's made up for T:ToN and is inherently a computer-game mechanic.

(It is kind of the Awesome Button of RPG systems though, Effort ruins everything.)
 

Fry

Arcane
Joined
Aug 29, 2013
Messages
1,922
From playing the various alpha and beta builds, I've come to the conclusion I'm probably not going to like combat in this game.

As a tabletop RPG, the Numenera system is not my thing. I like lots of dice rolls and heavy combat mechanics, and I really kinda hate sitting around a table with a bunch of wannabe theater dorks who just want to act out a story without "inconvenient" rules getting in the way. I'm not sure how much inXile can really do with this ruleset.

But that's OK. I do like reading cool fiction, so if T:ToN turns out to be a well crafted choose-your-own-adventure book with pointless combat, it's truly the PS:T successor we asked for.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
As a tabletop RPG, the Numenera system is not my thing. I like lots of dice rolls and heavy combat mechanics, and I really kinda hate sitting around a table with a bunch of wannabe theater dorks who just want to act out a story without "inconvenient" rules getting in the way. I'm not sure how much inXile can really do with this ruleset.

Hey, it's all about :balance:

Too rule-heavy, and it'll take 15 minutes to resolve whether the arrow you shot hit (yes, really, this happened in Rolemaster, and it didn't), not enough rules and it's just improv theater without an audience.

I like systems which are light enough to play fluidly, structured enough to still be a game, and rich enough to give a meaningful representation of, for example, combat.

There aren't many.
 

Dwarvophile

Liturgist
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
1,596
From playing the various alpha and beta builds, I've come to the conclusion I'm probably not going to like combat in this game.

As a tabletop RPG, the Numenera system is not my thing. I like lots of dice rolls and heavy combat mechanics, and I really kinda hate sitting around a table with a bunch of wannabe theater dorks who just want to act out a story without "inconvenient" rules getting in the way. I'm not sure how much inXile can really do with this ruleset.

But that's OK. I do like reading cool fiction, so if T:ToN turns out to be a well crafted choose-your-own-adventure book with pointless combat, it's truly the PS:T successor we asked for.


Come on I've waited relatively long for a turn based rpg with a proper story and lore !

I remember seeing a Torment stream on twitch with the first 40 mins in the codex headlines. Maybe I should watch it to check the gameplay.

Actually that's the first time I'm waiting for a CRPG to be released all the way from it's announcement through the whole development and holy Morte, that's a very long wait !

I like systems which are light enough to play fluidly, structured enough to still be a game, and rich enough to give a meaningful representation of, for example, combat.

There aren't many.

The opposite of what you describe would be the MERPG system. AD&D's representation of combat always lacked something despite the various attempts with every edition, when Runequest's system was simple and realistic in the same time if I remember well.
 
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Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://www.gamegrin.com/previews/torment-tides-of-numenera-preview/

Torment: Tides of Numenera Preview
It is hard to believe that there is still such a large devoted audience in the gaming world for a game like Torment: Tides of Numenera. In this game, there is no shooting, cinematic drama or high-octane action. In the current gaming panorama, well-written stories merge with engaging mechanics that keep you on the edge of your seat. Even those games that are slow and story-focused always have very dynamic scenes. Torment, much like Pillars of Eternity did last year, sneaks into the market drawing from nostalgia, but turning out to be one of the most stimulating games of the past year despite rejecting all the theatrics that we see in more streamlined games.

Torment is an isometric RPG set in a sci-fi-meets-fantasy world where there is no line between mind and matter. It is hard to describe the universe in Torment, as it’s ultimately a mix of cyberpunk and horror sci-fi that takes the liberties of twisting every physical or social boundaries in order to create the most extravagant, outlandish and esoteric lore. The colourful and garish scenarios presented are littered with bizarre statues, characters and events in every nook and cranny; so many that it’s overwhelmingly fascinating to know that everything you do will change your relationship with that place. The lack of cinematic camera angles in this game creates gorgeous vistas that emphasise the different groups of people and their relationship with the buildings around them, but that allow for little storytelling devices.

ss-0478c86350199576b781933b1fc2818a0598e18e.600x338.jpg


The biggest forté of the world is that it presents a visual referent for the writing. This is one of the aspects that I find most interesting about the success of this game: it relies on the written word to convey any interaction or event, using the design of the world as a simple spatial setting. And what a writing style! The most notable problem with books, notes and other writings in games is that they are frequently too functional to be engaging enough to base an entire game on it. Games like Skyrim or Dragon Age have always had a great world, with plenty of characters and books able to explain the lore and tell tales about it, but for me, there’s always a point when I stop losing interest: the stories don’t feel relevant enough, or they’re simply too uninspired and dull. This is not the case in Torment. Just like in Pillars of Eternity, much of the work that enacts such an enticing and deep universe is done by your mind. By reading every bit of conversation, interpreting the events in your head and creating your own nuanced version of what’s happening, the world of Tormentbecomes more interesting and mysterious than the most fantastic sets. Of course, this is accomplished with the most proficient and suggestive writing style, which will make you not skip a single line.

In its current state, Torment is missing a bunch of features, although the core game is in place. The character creation, despite not allowing visual customisation of your character other than the sex, is done in-game, by choosing a series of actions in different situations. In fact, there are three different tiers of classes, which means that your character will be defined by three different attributes. My character was an Observant Jack with a particular penchant for hand-to-hand combat, and since the pool of attributes is so large I’m still trying to figure out what some of them do, as some new options keep showing up in conversations. This freedom to choose your own history is also exemplified by the vast amount of possibilities as soon as you finish the introduction part. Do you want to befriend a cultist group? Do you want to work for a scholar? Are you feeling like scamming people? The opportunities are there, you just need to find them.

ss-177912bbb7099fa2bd13701ff32105561706831f.600x338.jpg


One of the biggest differences with Pillars of Eternity, aside from the different world, is the combat system. Torment features a turn-based combat similar to XCOM’s, but without a grid. You can move twice, or just one and use an action. Nevertheless, I have experienced very little combat so far, as there are always ways to resolve situations without getting in that much trouble. I can’t emphasise this enough: unlike other RPGs like Dark Souls orSkyrim, where everything –— or almost everything — you can do is fight or run, in Torment, combat is just a small part of what your character can do. In fact, the game often places objects or conversations that you can trigger in combat, encouraging you to find alternatives.

Torment: Tides of Numenera is not a game for everybody. More casual or impatient gamers will find that endless lines of long-winded prose is not enough to keep them awake. However, for many others, myself included, Torment will be the perfect successor toPlanescape: Torment, and will create an incredible and fantastic atmosphere through the gorgeous pre-rendered landscapes, the entrancing music by composer Mark Morgan and the suggestive and enthralling writing by one of the lead designers of Planescape, Colin McComb. Even though Torment shares the graphical engine with Pillars, and the philosophy to approach the game is vastly similar, Torment’s Kickstarter surpassed their fantasy cousin in the amount of money raised, and became the most funded videogame at the time. The game is currently in Early Access, with its release date unannounced, and shows some rough patches that will make any old rig squeal out of pain — even in my high-end system it had troubles loading menus and areas. However, despite not being able to recommend jumping in for the development process, you should keep an eye out if you’re a fan of these type of games.
 

Mustawd

Guest

Who is writing this? A 7th grader. Yeesh...

While I would love to talk how beautiful the graphics are, I cannot. Only because I was running the game on my wife’s laptop, it it really doesn’t have the video power that my desktop used to. I can say this, backgrounds and environments were colorful and strange (as they should be). I wish I could have experienced it on my machine, and can’t wait until I can.

:retarded:
 

Abu Antar

Turn-based Poster
Patron
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
14,024
Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth

Who is writing this? A 7th grader. Yeesh...

While I would love to talk how beautiful the graphics are, I cannot. Only because I was running the game on my wife’s laptop, it it really doesn’t have the video power that my desktop used to. I can say this, backgrounds and environments were colorful and strange (as they should be). I wish I could have experienced it on my machine, and can’t wait until I can.

:retarded:
How the fuck? I don't even
 

HatTrick

Scholar
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
140
From playing the various alpha and beta builds, I've come to the conclusion I'm probably not going to like combat in this game.

As a tabletop RPG, the Numenera system is not my thing. I like lots of dice rolls and heavy combat mechanics, and I really kinda hate sitting around a table with a bunch of wannabe theater dorks who just want to act out a story without "inconvenient" rules getting in the way. I'm not sure how much inXile can really do with this ruleset.

But that's OK. I do like reading cool fiction, so if T:ToN turns out to be a well crafted choose-your-own-adventure book with pointless combat, it's truly the PS:T successor we asked for.
It's like one of those new rules-lite systems fucked a 90's RPG and made something that had the strengths of neither, with a dollop of Monte Cook's favoritism towards wizards.
 

HatTrick

Scholar
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
140
From playing the various alpha and beta builds, I've come to the conclusion I'm probably not going to like combat in this game.

As a tabletop RPG, the Numenera system is not my thing. I like lots of dice rolls and heavy combat mechanics, and I really kinda hate sitting around a table with a bunch of wannabe theater dorks who just want to act out a story without "inconvenient" rules getting in the way. I'm not sure how much inXile can really do with this ruleset.

But that's OK. I do like reading cool fiction, so if T:ToN turns out to be a well crafted choose-your-own-adventure book with pointless combat, it's truly the PS:T successor we asked for.
It's like one of those new rules-lite systems fucked a 90's RPG and made something that had the strengths of neither, with a dollop of Monte Cook's favoritism towards wizards.


Well....

I dont really think Numenera favors wizards. It's more like everyone can be a wizard now.
Nanos (and to a lesser extent Jacks, but I don't really count them as a real class because they read like a copypaste of the Glaive and Nano with a small handful of unique powers to their name) get all the powers that do out-of-combat shit, like time travel, teleportation, weather control, etc. All the poor Glaive gets is better skill at killing shit and doing grunt work like lifting stuff. Granted, your Foci can give you a few wizard powers and the GM might give you a decent artifact (and drop the stupid depletion rules because gee I sure like it when my sword runs out of juice and there aren't any defined rules for how to recharge it), but the point is that once again the Nano can do whatever his little heart desires and the Glaive is constrained to the purely physical because Monte Cook.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

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The worst part about numanuma is the GM intervention thing so at least that won't exist in the CRPG.

The systems are awful but really, standard aren't exactly high for CRPGs.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
The worst part about numanuma is the GM intervention thing so at least that won't exist in the CRPG.

The systems are awful but really, standard aren't exactly high for CRPGs.

The GM intervention thing is actually one of the few things about Numenera that actually works as designed and adds fun to the gaming session.

Who even gives the slightest fuck? Numenera is a joke system, you jsut tell the DM what you want to do and then he gives you a difficulty. He has for every single task. Once you're high enough you can just grunt a level 10 task down to level 6 with effort alone

And to level 4 if you have a suitable Asset.

In RL terms, it would mean that your antisocial autistic wizard would have a 1/3 chance of pulling off a world-class performance of Il dolce suono... if he had a really good microphone and tried hard enough.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

edit: sorry, it's actually 1/2 chance, since it's enough to meet the difficulty to win
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
99,049
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The worst part about numanuma is the GM intervention thing so at least that won't exist in the CRPG.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/10/numenera-pc-game/

RPS: Are you doing stuff with GM intrusions?

McComb: Yes, we are.

RPS: How does that work when there’s no GM?

McComb: That’s a randomised thing that’s going to depend on the number of sleeps you have, the… I’m trying to think of what things effect that without giving away any spoilers… There are things that are going to happen in crises – the encounters and the battles that you’ll have – where suddenly things will take a turn for the worse and you can choose to accept that or reject it and get the XP for it.

Beekers: But it does work differently. That’s a system that works very well in pen-and-paper and you really have to just make it work on computer, so we’re doing something similar but it’s different. We’re at the stage now where this is something you have to play to see how it works, so anything we say right now will be a bit up in the air because we’re going to have to play it and see how it works and then adjust it to make it work.

McComb: We don’t want to make any promises. We’ve learned a lesson on that.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

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But it doesn't matter infi, because TToN is going to be a railroaded game one way or another. So when the fuck are you going to ever say no to XP?

The worst part about numanuma is the GM intervention thing so at least that won't exist in the CRPG.

The systems are awful but really, standard aren't exactly high for CRPGs.

The GM intervention thing is actually one of the few things about Numenera that actually works as designed and adds fun to the gaming session.
Tying it to character development only transfers the flow of the narrative from the players to the hands of the GM. It's a tool for railroading. Sure, you can say no but you're gonna accept it sooner or later.

The GM intervention thing is actually one of the few things about Numenera that actually works as designed and adds fun to the gaming session.

Don't make the mistake that Excidium is actually interested in debate or discussion. He's a tumblr-tier shitposter and you're going to waste a ton of time going back and forth while he rubs shit in your eye.
Silence, cretin. You're just too retarded to understand the arguments that are made based on knowledge you lack. Happens far too often with newfags.

Keep stalking me and you're going to learn something about RPGs.
 
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Prime Junta

Guest
Tying it to character development only transfers the flow of the narrative from the players to the hands of the GM. It's a tool for railroading. Sure, you can say no but you're gonna accept it sooner or later.

It's only a tool for railroading for GM's who railroad, and they don't need the mechanic for that. Railroady GM's will railroad.

IME the GM intervention did a number of things for the gameplay. First, it forced me to be more creative with in-the-moment gameplay. Since I "had to" work in a few interventions per session -- and in some cases the rules even mandate them -- I was actively looking for opportunities to throw the players off-balance, and because I didn't want to repeat myself ("uh... you drop your weapon... again") I tried to keep them fresh and interesting.

This made encounters and interactions less predictable. The players were more on their toes, and what would've been a fairly mundane encounter often turned into something altogether more interesting. In some cases I might've done stuff like that anyway, but with the GM intervention, I was certainly doing more of it, and the overall experience benefitted.

Second, it made those twists more fun for everybody. The GM is God, and if he's not a just god, the players will get pissed off and go to some other campaign. If you throw complications at the players in in-the-moment gameplay, it's very easy for that to come across as a dick move -- you fucking with the players for your own enjoyment rather than to make things more interesting. That little XP reward takes the sting off it, and removes a big disincentive for the GM to do that kind of thing. Even if the intervention isn't particularly great -- not all of them are -- it's still more fun.

So basically it provides an incentive for the GM to think on his feet and makes stuff more dynamic. It's IMO the single best idea in the Cypher System in fact.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

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But the intrusion puts the GM in control of the narrative instead of being a reactive entity. Even if you don't have the intention to railroad, you're strongly nudging the player towards a certain response because the situation you present to him is purely arbitrary and he's punished for not following it.

This inversion of roles just does not feel right for me.
 

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