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Torment Torment: Tides of Numenera Thread

Discussion in 'inXile Entertainment' started by Florian Gheorghe, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Iznaliu Arbiter

    Iznaliu
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    There are some critical issues that can't be fixed even with a spit-and-shine.
     
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  2. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

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    Moving the goal posts. Polish or not, the game is bad, not "solid"
     
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  3. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

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    I used the word solid only in regard to the state of its code.
     
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  4. Grunker RPG Codex Ghost Patron

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    When I said Ruins of Myth Drannor was gonna be the best game ever I just meant "compared to E.T. on the Atari"
     
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  5. Prime Junta Self-Ejected Patron Vatnik

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    Roguey is the best poster ever.
     
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  6. circ Arcane

    circ
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    TTON risky. LUL sure.
     
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  7. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

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    A RPG that takes place in a non-traditional fantasy setting where there are only about a dozen fights and most of your time is spent reading would be considered a higher than usual risk by most investors, yes.
     
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  8. Iznaliu Arbiter

    Iznaliu
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    True, but that doesn't mean investors won't take other kinds of risks.
     
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  9. Prime Junta Self-Ejected Patron Vatnik

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    Well yeah, but OTOH a sequel to a cult classic with a fanatically dedicated fanbase, budgeted exactly to match the size of that fanbase...? It's all in the point of view mang
     
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  10. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

    IHaveHugeNick
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    Then again, if Pillars is any indication, the trick is to cater the sequel to the people who hated the original game.
     
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  11. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    AoD did well so suck on that, investors.
     
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  12. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    AoD has fewer owners on Steam than Torment...
     
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  13. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    gog, direct purchase etc, etc. and no kickstarter to boot.
     
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  14. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    AoD is also on GOG, and it's also a $30 game compared to Torment's $45, and it's been out for nearly two years now compared to Torment's half year.

    It did *okay* for a low budget indie game developed by a tiny team. Its numbers don't tell you anything about games with multi-million dollar budgets.
     
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  15. ERYFKRAD Barbarian Patron

    ERYFKRAD
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    Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Hang on back the fuck up.


    Oh, you were talking about Torment?

    Well then, carry on.
     
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  16. IncendiaryDevice Self-Ejected Village Idiot

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    It might not have been "we can have bad combat because PS:T had bad combat" but there was no need to dedicate so much time to combat as fans of PS:T don't play PS:T for the combat. The crisis system might well be an amazing system, therefore if you're going to spend that much effort on it then you might as well make a combat focused game. If the story and general non-combat gameplay and C&C were where the time and energy was fully dedicated then a simple turn-based combat system tagged-on would have, obviously, been far superior to mediocre everything.

    You say it yourself "the crysis system was a huge investment of time and resources". Who the fuck would set about making a PS:T sequel and then immediately spend a huge amount of time and effort on a combat system. That's the exact opposite approach to the original game. People weren't backing an improved combat system, they were backing a story-focus cRPG in an unusual universe with lots of non-combat related activity. When these people added to their preferences "can you also please not make the combat shit" they were not saying "please can you also make the combat the focus of your time investment", they were saying "can combat just be regular turn-based D20-like mechanics please".

    The crisis system might well be a great idea to build a game around, but probably not a sequel to a game with expectations, probably a whole new IP.

    "more serious fare" BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

    Do you even have any sense of self-perception...

    In what way, shape or form would you consider TToN to be more 'serious' fare than: Tyranny, Age of Decadence, Serpents in the Staglands, Underrail or any of the other recent cRPG attempts that all have perfectly respectable reputations on this site? Oh, you meant versus the AAA sales hunting market? In what way is TToN "more serious fare" than... I have no fucking idea what market your imagining TToN was supposed to go for with that comment.

    You mean "the public" doesn't like independent derivative cRPGs that try to do things a bit differently? YOU MEAN LIKE UNDERTAIL?

    Jesus, you can be a card sometimes.

    Indeed.

    Because TToN was the only cRPG in the last decade to take risks was it? Funny, I don't remember it even taking any risks, all I remember was people gave them millions of dollars and all them needing to do was partially immitate an already existing game. Who the fuck paid them to take these 'risks' in the first place?

    Perhaps the lesson will be "don't take risks when people are paying you in advance not to do that" *facepalm*

    You'd make a good fantasy writer. Well... maybe not a good one.

    No, the risk was taking money in advance on the promise of something which carried expectations and then treating the game's production like an art-house experimental jam. What the game ended up being has fuck all to do with any risks with regard to what the end game turned out like because none of the investors were investing in a game where there's only a dozen combat encounters and just lots of reading, they were investing in a sequel to an existing game. If someone had pitched what the final game looked like via a time machine then it wouldn't have been a matter of taking risks, people who were interested in that product would have invested for that product. *facepalm*

    AoD had less marketing budget.
    AoD didn't pay youtubers to shill for it
    AoD didn't have Infinitron shilling for it
    AoD didn't have $millions from kickstarters
    AoD is an entirely new IP
    AoD pleased the people it was supposed to please
    AoD has less expenses
    AoD doesn't get bumped every other day by people trying to cover-up figure out what's been painfully obvious since release.

    But yeah, TToN has a larger total number of owners. Because it started with a 100,000 head start, duh.
     
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  17. hogcranker Novice Patron

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    I can't get past the first hour of this game.

    It's like they wrote it to be based on the gamer dork reputation of what PS:T is (games are srs art u can do a novel but as a game hurrrr) instead of what it actually is (character-driven pulp fantasy exploring the furthest corners of a crazy setting).

    If TToN is a good example of what Numenera content tends to look like I want nothing to do with the setting.
     
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  18. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    RPG Wokedex Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Novels are supposed to have good stories. Many of T:ToN's critics on this forum say that its main flaw is the lack of a strong main storyline, but that it does have many intricate sidequests that explore its crazy setting.
     
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  19. hogcranker Novice Patron

    hogcranker
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    Make the Codex Great Again! Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    I played the first hour, as I said. It was reams of sterile text like something out of one of those Amazon sci-fi novels with titles like "The Nth Coefficient of the Parallax Digidragon"
     
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  20. IHaveHugeNick Arcane

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    TTON's core narrative problem is combining action-ish main plot with snail pace gameplay. As in, they start you off with a sense of urgency and immediate threat, and follow it up with a world that requires meticulous and slow exploration. If evil monster is after me, why would I go around and spend my time reading descriptions of those strangely shaped pink rocks? Shouldn't I rather find a space shuttle and bolt to another planet or something?

    It's so jarring, it kills your suspension of disbelief dead within first 30 minutes. After that there's no going back, you may keep playing, you may even enjoy many of the better written bits, but at the end it feels like you're forcing yourself through it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
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  21. HoboForEternity sunset tequila Patron

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    this. I feel like the hook and storyline of most rpgs shoukd be this investigating thing, not some this high stake, time sensitive stuff like a giant death monster / looming threat chasing you.

    Some of the best codex loved rpgs have this simole investigating hook where exploration makes sense:

    Ps:t - you investigate who you are and why cant u die
    Fallout 1/2/new vegas: finding water chip: geck/ the dude who shot you in the head:

    Bg2: the guy who tortured you and you friends.

    Gothic 1: basically a giant find a way out! Game.

    Of course, like all examples, there are exceptions like the recent expedition vikings where the hook is a looming threat, but the exploration context makes sense because you have to search for resources and stuff.
     
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  22. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

    Roguey
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    RPG writers should just give up on longterm urgency altogether because it's either going to result in ludonarrative dissonance or irritation. This is not the genre for urgency (except in short bursts).
     
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  23. Rev Arcane

    Rev
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    AoD also didn't cost millions of dollars on top of the KS budget and didn't have a team of about 20-30 people working on it.
    And Iron Tower was a new software house making its first game ever, while inXile just made WL2 (which sold more than 600k copies on Steam alone) shortly before T:ToN and had some big names working on it as well as a lot of good press by a lot of major sites, unlike AoD.
     
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  24. Fry Arcane

    Fry
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    The fact WL2 sold 600K while T:ToN hovers around 130K fascinates me. Based on name recognition of the games they're based on alone, I would think Torment would do better. I mean, who talks about the original Wasteland? How is it more popular than what is generally acknowledged to be the best CRPG story ever? Is this genuinely a case of bad word-of-mouth steering people away from Torment?
     
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  25. Roguey Codex Staff Sawyerite

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    Fargo made sure to talk about Fallout every chance he got.
     
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