Tyranny + Bastard's Wound Expansion Thread

[Lacrymas]

I am fine with Kyros simply being impatient if that's what they want, my problem is more how the edict doesn't change anything or prompt any kind of rash actions from *someone*. What would've happened if we weren't there? However, I think it would've been better if we were shown the armies sabotaging each other and that were the reason for the edict. We do get some of that in Conquest mode, but it's more of a casual remark than anything and doesn't damage the effectiveness of the armies in the campaign. The game being undercooked is plain to see, but the initial writing shows destructive tendencies that wouldn't have been stopped with more money or time (unless they hired new writers I suppose). It also has critical pacing issues, like I've mentioned before, that make it a slog to read/go through.

 

[Delterius]

The two armies are "slow" due to the very understandable resistance of the local population.

citation needed

 

[guestposting]

As it stands now, Kyros is just impatient and wants results NOW, as in literally a week. The two armies are "slow" due to the very understandable resistance of the local population

Hard disagree. Kyros wants to demobilize by any means necessary because his most powerful lieutenants are the only remaining threat to the regime. The edict is not supposed to be fulfilled. Kyros could just kill them all with the edict, but murdering loyal armies for no reason is the kind of thing that encourages disloyalty. You have to give your subordinates a potential way out—that way death is just the penalty for failure.

So Kyros does the same thing he did with the other three edicts in the game: I will hit you with unspeakable devastation unless you do this thing that you’ll never be willing or able to do. Now look what you made me do!

The Fatebinder’s success is a suboptimal outcome for Kyros, but he knows he can pit the two armies against each other and they’ll take care of themselves. Far from being pissed off about the civil war, Kyros eventually gets angry that it’s taking too long and makes “there can be only one” explicit policy in act 3.

By the same token, both Ashe and Nerat have every reason to drag their feet and blame the other guy. The longer they delay, the longer they stay relevant. Give it long enough, maybe someone more important will rebel and they’ll be off the chopping block.

 

[Roguey]

It's a plot point that Ashe is deliberately refusing to take risks because he's grown old and soft and doesn't want to see his soldiers killed.

However, that's just one reason. A long-running thing throughout the entire game is gathering evidence to prove who exactly is to blame for why the conquest took so long.

 

[Ol' Willy]

but murdering loyal armies for no reason is the kind of thing that encourages disloyalty.

 

[Lacrymas]

citation needed

We aren't given any reason to think otherwise? Even at the bridge, the two groups were stopped not because they couldn't agree on a plan (they followed the blood cantor's) but because the guard blew up the bridge.

As for Kyros' motivation - that is fairly immaterial. Whether s/he wants to destroy the armies, or just being impatient. What is important is that the supposed impetus of the plot, the edict, ....doesn't do anything. There is no noticeable change between before and after the edict. The minor rebellion had no chance either way, so we being there to speed up the process is not a good hook. After that little hang up, the next step comes out of nowhere because of this lack of change. I can see how we choosing a side can tip the scales over, but the scales were barely loaded in the first place.

 

[Sarathiour]

The whole conquest choice's goal was to try to make the player feel a huge opposition between the two army, and kyros editc beeing the last straw.

One theory is also that kyros want people to stay the fuck off the spire the most possible, for reason given in act 3.

Spoiler

Did anyone notice that you get the corresponding sigil lit when you claim a spire ? Meaning that there is also 6 other spire, and a decent probabillity that kyros got them ?
If she heard about the spire only during say, the middle of the tiers conquest, it could be a decent reason to suddenly freak out

 

[Storyfag]

The whole conquest choice's goal was to try to make the player feel a huge opposition between the two army, and kyros editc beeing the last straw.

One theory is also that kyros want people to stay the fuck off the spire the most possible, for reason given in act 3.

Spoiler

Did anyone notice that you get the corresponding sigil lit when you claim a spire ? Meaning that there is also 6 other spire, and a decent probabillity that kyros got them ?
If she heard about the spire only during say, the middle of the tiers conquest, it could be a decent reason to suddenly freak out

Interesting, but the assumption that the all-powerful Overlord would not know the locations of all the spires decades before the conquest of the Tires does not hold. These are huge structures, so Kyros had to be aware of them.

This is also another element inconsistemt with other parts of the narrative. In the letters you get from another Fatebinder it is implied that there are dozens of such towers across Terratus.

 

[Delterius]

We aren't given any reason to think otherwise? Even at the bridge, the two groups were stopped not because they couldn't agree on a plan (they followed the blood cantor's) but because the guard blew up the bridge.

Yeah and those problems are easily dealt with once you get to them. Just as any resistance was quickly dealt with before, during the initial invasion of the tiers.

The game shows us over and over again that the armies are stalling the re conquest because they can't agree on anything. Anything else is your head canon.

 

[Sarathiour]

Interesting, but the assumption that the all-powerful Overlord would not know the locations of all the spires decades before the conquest of the Tires does not hold. These are huge structures, so Kyros had to be aware of them.

This is also another element inconsistemt with other parts of the narrative. In the letters you get from another Fatebinder it is implied that there are dozens of such towers across Terratus.

Well shit, because i kinda like the theory, and the design make me think that it is another aborted idea.
For the sake of arguing, i could say that other spire might not have the same purpose (like decoy or something). Exact citation :

You are correct, there are Spires all across Terratus. The exact distribution of these monuments fuels all sorts of debate and speculation, but two facts seem commonplace: most Spires are built near Oldwalls (your Mountain Spire is a notable exception) and nearly every culture that predated Kyros has some local myth to explain the builders of these Spires - I believe the Tiersmen cite the "Older Realms" as their local name for the Spire/Oldwalls architects... but nobody knows for sure.

And of course, where Kyros has brought proper civilization, the origin of the Spires simply isn't discussed in good company...

Here's what I think you need to know...

First, the Spires behave as arcane lodestone - there is a constant field of magical strength around a Spire. If you imagine a mystic sea resting atop our world, the Spires seem to spin and churn this magic - creating a spell cast with even modest effort will materialize with powerful results.

Second, and I'd say most tellingly, Kyros has laws against entering the Oldwalls, but there are no laws against the Spires. You could infer from this that means Kyros has no issue with the lay folks messing with the Spires but wishes to keep us safe from the Oldwalls. Or you could think like an Overlord and know that if you place a rule against something, you make it forbidden and desirable... now I find it telling that Kyros forbids the hallways that leads to the Spires but does not paint a target on the Spires themselves.

Last but not least... as a young Fatebinder, I once had to oversee the case of a man who had built a shrine to Kyros around the base of a Spire in the far south east. I could find no evidence of falsity or slander - his shrine was a most reverent and loving tribute as I've ever seen. At one point though, this man claimed he had evidence that 'Kyros was here back in negative fifty.' He had merely uttered those words and my senior Binder swung the axe then and there. Being the new girl at the Court, I said nothing, but I have long wondered why such a comment should require death instead of the traditional removal of the tongue.

-Fatebinder Myothis

Also, Kyros is probably far from being all-powerful (Sirin nearly killed him/her without really wanting it) but make a point about making people beliving it. Again :

Kyros' most powerful weapon is not the Edict, it's her ability to hand us rope that we willingly use to hang ourselves - never forget this.

Well, we will probably only have headcannon theory, it seems obvious that the lore of the game got butchered at some point. They were talk about making a sequel in the same setting but as a 4X game and not a RPG.
And it will probably never happen.

 

[Delterius]

What is important is that the supposed impetus of the plot, the edict, ....doesn't do anything. There is no noticeable change between before and after the edict.

Before edict: armies aren't marching.

After edict: armies are marching.

Once again, citation needed.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Storyfag]

Also, Kyros is probably far from being all-powerful

Yeah, of course. I didn't mean that in a literal sense. It was a shorthand for "extremely powerful, with multiple agents and minions, and worldwide reach"

As such its mysterious why would he 'share' his power by giving away a key.

The true explanation is

Spoiler

rushed production/cut content

 

[Lacrymas]

What is important is that the supposed impetus of the plot, the edict, ....doesn't do anything. There is no noticeable change between before and after the edict.

Before edict: armies aren't marching.

After edict: armies are marching.

Once again, citation needed.

I'm not under the impression that the armies are just sitting in their camp doing nothing. Even then, I'd say it is you who manages to keep things rolling and not the edict. The bickering continues as before. Which somehow escalates into an all-out civil war. The connective tissue between the bickering and the civil war is my main problem, even if the edict did do something to force them to move.

 

[Sarathiour]

Well, one reason why he give away a key might be that he never wanted it to begin with, but once the milk is spilled and despite the "behead anyone who put a foot in the oldwall" law, people now know that there is SOMETHING up with those weird shrine, therefore i think it's plausible to have a "wait and see" attitude and act like it was all part of the plan in order to keep face.

Spoiler

and it's not like he don't act at all : another army is on his way to the tier at the end of act 3, so it's not like there is no plan to stomp the winner of the tier, it's crystal clear that kyros does not really trust any of his archont, apart from Tunon

 

[Delterius]

I'm not under the impression that the armies are just sitting in their camp doing nothing.

Then you are wrong.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Delterius]

The true explanation is

does codex have friendly face that could share this info?

its been confirmed somehow that feargus raided the tyranny warchest to put all his eggs on deadfire

LESS T_T Infinitron Roguey might prove me wrong tho

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Delterius]

in which case

good question bro

 

[Luckmann]

The true explanation is

does codex have friendly face that could share this info?

its been confirmed somehow that feargus raided the tyranny warchest to put all his eggs on deadfire

LESS T_T Infinitron Roguey might prove me wrong tho

Im not interested in verification or reasons behind cuts.

Since we clearly wont see tranny 2, im interested in plot/lore we will never experience. Mostly what I already asked, whats the deal with kyros/player agenda

Yeah, I don't think you'll get any answers to that, at least not until Tyranny is another 10 years old without any sequels and more people that worked on it are out in the wilds, and even then you're actually going to have to go ask them. Obsidian (and so now Microsoft) owns the rights to all the material, used or unused, and the people are at the very least under a soft general NDA/loyalty clause, so anything you'll be able to get right now are very general information at best.

They are often unwilling to point fingers, and there's still the off chance (however remote) that some of this stuff will see the light of day in some sequel at some point.

Maybe one day we'll see a proper and honest post-mortem, but I don't think that's today.

 

[Sarathiour]

Wasn't paradox the owner of tyranny's license ?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Wasn't paradox the owner of tyranny's license ?

Yep, Tyranny is Paradox’s IP. They paid for the whole thing.

He may be thinking of Pillars of Eternity, which is Obsidian’s IP, mainly financed through Kickstarter with the publisher of those games just acting as publishers (also why Obsidian could change publisher for the second one).

 

[Luckmann]

Wasn't paradox the owner of tyranny's license ?

Yep, Tyranny is Paradox’s IP. They paid for the whole thing.

He may be thinking of Pillars of Eternity, which is Obsidian’s IP, mainly financed through Kickstarter with the publisher of those games just acting as publishers (also why Obsidian could change publisher for the second one).

Nah, I was actually thinking about Tyranny, I just straight-up forgot that Paradox owned that IP. The situation is largely the same, though, it's not going to change anything, except perhaps to make a continuation of Tyranny even more remote, unless Microsoft actually decides to buy it from Paradox.

 

[Alpan]

Just finished for the first time on PotD. This game had a weird difficulty curve where Act 1 was fiendishly difficult (though I managed to do the Eb fight on my first try), and then the difficulty started decreasing. Then I got Kills-in-Shadow, and (independently from KiS) the sigils for chaining spells + AoE and it fell off a cliff.

I went Chorus, but sided with Kyros in the end. I understand that this option was added later, but it didn't seem out-of-place to me, whereas its lack would certainly have been noticeable (and led to the game feeling like it ended on a cliffhanger). I liked that Obsidian went for something different with this game, the setting was ultimately interesting though the execution usually couldn't measure up to the ideas. But the ideas were there, certainly.

The combat was as terrible as people were saying, though. Literally every encounter (maybe except the Havoc fight which demanded a modicum of monster management) played out the same way, which to me appears to be the consequence of an open-ended system where spells and abilities are only limited by cooldowns and everybody can be a spellcaster. That can be fine for an MMO where combat is a vehicle for grinding but here it just reminded me of the terrible state of affairs Darth Roxor mentioned in his original Pillars of Eternity review.

I might replay this on the anarchist path later, but if I do I might as well go for Story Mode, to be honest. The combat was so bad I'm going to be reading a visual novel to cleanse my palate before the next RPG.