Tyranny + Bastard's Wound Expansion Thread

[Lhynn]

And I assume you knew that feeblemind would work on golems just because you are that much of a genius? Jesus, people, cut the bullshit. Yeah, you can cheese and trivialize every possible BG2 fight in gazillion different ways. Because you've played it a lot. When you were going in for the first time, blind, it was not an easy game. It wasn't any super hardcore either, but sheer variety of different combat scenarios and enemies with their abilities was very, very good and also quite demanding. Boring, banal shit from Obsidian doesn't even compare to it.

Its amazing that they have problems admiting this, all their arguments are constantly reduced to the insignificant garbage that they are but they still wont just acknowledge the differences. I remember when codex was a place people would concede when proven wrong, but today they just move the goalpost, give you strawmans, or outright lie to your face.

 

[Lilura]

Cannae remember how they would kill themselves. Unless you are talking about the cloak of mirroring.

They would occasionally remain in the AoE of their own spells, thereby pwning themselves. Result of poor pathing or just dumbness.

they borrowed the smooth and clear combat from RTS combat.

Just a brief note on this, too. But in its infancy (i.e, BG release and first patch, pre-ToSC) Infinity Engine combat was anything but smooth. Combat units constantly got stuck on terrain obstacles, and on each other. It was just useless before they cranked up the path search nodes and ppl's machines had the grunt to set them at 32,000 (and later 400,000).

 

[hell bovine]

The reason you can "manage to get by" in BG2 without actually knowing much about the combat system is, because all those epic enemies the game throws at you suffer from terrible AI, bad pathfinding and a multitude of bugs. Those supposedly tough golems? You could feeblemind them. (fixed by SCS and I think some other mods)

And I assume you knew that feeblemind would work on golems just because you are that much of a genius? Jesus, people, cut the bullshit. Yeah, you can cheese and trivialize every possible BG2 fight in gazillion different ways. Because you've played it a lot. When you were going in for the first time, blind, it was not an easy game. It wasn't any super hardcore either, but sheer variety of different combat scenarios and enemies with their abilities was very, very good and also quite demanding. Boring, banal shit from Obsidian doesn't even compare to it.

that's an example of bad enemy design (unless you think feeblemind should work on golems)

 

[Haplo]

But Kangaxx WAS the most memorable combat in BG2, at least for me.
I generally tried this fight early and didn't have much that could put a dent in him (Minute Meteors, Carsomyr... that's it).
And there wasn't much that could save one from Imprisonment - didn't have access to the freeing spell either.
So it was very much hit-or-miss. Had to rely on him targeting my enraged Berserker, as that was pretty much the only protection I've had (while it lasts).

Cost me many reloads too.

 

[Lhynn]

that's an example of bad enemy design (unless you think feeblemind should work on golems)

OR, and stick with me here, MAYBE, still following me? maybe it was just a bug or an omission. Considering most creatures were faithfully copied from the monster manual.

 

[Lhynn]

They would occasionally remain in the AoE of their own spells, thereby pwning themselves. Result of poor pathing or just dumbness.

Sounds to me like your regular implementation of poor AI, in most games your own AoEs dont hurt you so its not an issue.

Just a brief note on this, too. But in its infancy (i.e, BG release and first patch, pre-ToSC) Infinity Engine combat was anything but smooth. Combat units constantly got stuck on terrain obstacles, and on each other.

Got it at release, never had such problem, only in firewine, and the cave portion below candlekeep.

 

[hell bovine]

that's an example of bad enemy design (unless you think feeblemind should work on golems)

OR, and stick with me here, MAYBE, still following me? maybe it was just a bug or an omission. Considering most creatures were faithfully copied from the monster manual.

And the difference is? Here is the point you keep missing: whether bad design, bug or omission, this combined with the bad AI and even worse pathfinding is what made BG2 an easy game. That is also why Kangaxx being a one-trick pony was a problem.

 

[Lhynn]

And the difference is? Here is the point you keep missing: whether bad design, bug or omission, this combined with the bad AI and even worse pathfinding is what made BG2 an easy game.

Not really, no, a creature out of hundreds being vulnerable to an obscure spell that most people wouldnt even think of using against them didnt make the game easier. If thats what your argument comes down to, then you have no argument.

That is also why Kangaxx being a one-trick pony was a problem.

Why was it a problem tho? it was just one fight, a very memorable and tough one at that, else you wouldnt bring it up. Your own speshul tactic to easily beat him does not make it an easy fight. Its not fucking rocket science you retard, your metagame knowledge of the game is irrelevant why do you keep bringing it up?

 

[hell bovine]

And the difference is? Here is the point you keep missing: whether bad design, bug or omission, this combined with the bad AI and even worse pathfinding is what made BG2 an easy game.

Not really, no, a creature out of hundreds being vulnerable to an obscure spell that most people wouldnt even think of using against them didnt make the game easier. If thats what your argument comes down to, then you have no argument.

That is also why Kangaxx being a one-trick pony was a problem.

Why was it a problem tho? it was just one fight, a very memorable and tough one at that, else you wouldnt bring it up. Your own speshul tactic to easily beat him does not make it an easy fight. Its not fucking rocket science you retard, your metagame knowledge of the game is irrelevant why do you keep bringing it up?

I'll try to explain it one more time: just because you thought the game difficult and therefore assume one needs to know the system to beat BG2 doesn't make it true. That's just your own personal experience with it. Not mine. Just like you think using easily available scrolls is "tactics". I don't, I just think it showcases the problem with BG2 vanilla "epic" combat.

(and btw, why do you assume using scrolls against Kangaxx is metagaming? the entire quest is about battling undead wizards - or occasionally watching them annihilate themselves with their own spells - and the guy talks to you from a grave. what did you think he would be?)

 

[Lhynn]

I'll try to explain it one more time: just because you thought the game difficult and therefore assume one needs to know the system to beat BG2 doesn't make it true.

And ill explain it one more time, just because you think that with metaknowledge the game is easy, doesnt mean anyone playing it for the first time will have an easy time. Anyway, why are we talking about difficulty? A game can be very hard and still be shit, and a game can be hella easy and still be great.
PoE on PotD was arguably very hard on beginners, it still sucked ass.

That's just your own personal experience with it. Not mine. Just like you think using easily available scrolls is "tactics". I don't, I just think it showcases the problem with BG2 vanilla "epic" combat.

What is the problem is a scroll makes a battle easy? consumables are there for a reason you retard. Its great when a game gives you a reason to use them.

(and btw, why do you assume using scrolls against Kangaxx is metagaming? the entire quest is about battling undead wizards - or occasionally watching them annihilate themselves with their own spells - and the guy talks to you from a grave. what did you think he would be?)

Again with the difficulty, truth be told the game doesnt hold your hand and tell you where to get said scrolls, or give you 5 of them to tackle the quest like most games do. So you tackling it with scrolls that happen to make the encounter that much easier is actually good design, being able to prepare for anything and have it pay off is a great fucking feeling.

 

[Reinhardt]

. Just like you think using easily available scrolls is "tactics". I don't, I just think it showcases the problem with BG2 vanilla "epic" combat.

Scrolls was only ONE of the available tactics. They are not mandatory to win this fight.

 

[Shevek]

Another fun game by Obsidian. Of course, the edge babies will continue to complain while simultaneously looking backwards through time with rose tinted glasses. But, who gives a shit about them?

 

[Reinhardt]

Another fun game by Obsidian

 

[hell bovine]

Again with the difficulty, truth be told the game doesnt hold your hand and tell you where to get said scrolls, or give you 5 of them to tackle the quest like most games do. So you tackling it with scrolls that happen to make the encounter that much easier is actually good design, being able to prepare for anything and have it pay off is a great fucking feeling.

And this is where we disagree. I think good design is when you give an enemy various offensive skills & spells (and the AI to use them), and give the player different ways to counter them. That way it actually feels like a challenge. Scrolls are fine as a solution, but if you can just buy them at shops and temples, it raises the question as to why is Athkatla even having an undead problem in the first place.

 

[Celerity]

>Overbalanced.
>You can actually make invincible characters who can solo everything.

Are you... retarded?

 

[bminorkey]

It takes a special kind of single-mindedness to get hung up over what amounts to 2 hours in a 30 hour game.

I'm going to complain some more about the ending. Paradox and Obsidian should have advertised this as Tyranny: episodes 1-3 or something because this is outrageous. Imagine the Tyrannizng of previous RPGs:

Fallout - You've found the water chip, but the Overseer is concerned about this super mutant army on the rise. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Fallout 2 - You have the GECK, but now the village is gone. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Baldur's Gate - You now know all about Sarevok's treachery. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Planescape Torment - Now that you've told Ravel what can change the nature of a man, it's time to hunt down Trias. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Baldur's Gate 2 - Irenicus has stolen your soul! To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Arcanum - You've found T'sen Ang and have made the decision whether to fight or side with the dark elves. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Morrowind - You must become the Hortator and Nerevarine. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Bloodlines - You finally have the sarcophagus. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Mask of the Betrayer - Myrkul has told you the nature of your curse. To be continued in DLC or a sequel.
Wasteland 2 - On our way to California! To be continued in DLC or a sequel.

why do you think tyranny needs a sequel? it's the story of the rise to power of an overlord-type legacy who can challenge Kyros. though the buildup is sudden, it ends where it should.

if there's a sequel i really doubt tyranny's protagonist will make an appearance

 

[Infinitron]

Josh Sawyer on why Tyranny has fancy animations:

Maybe they can be imported...

 

[veevoir]

Celerity was summoned. RIP thread.

 

[MrMarbles]

Scrolls are fine as a solution, but if you can just buy them at shops and temples, it raises the question as to why is Athkatla even having an undead problem in the first place.

Can we just leave out the realism arguments. Realism is like excessive balance patching, cutting systems to avoid players breaking them or incremental percentage-based abilities and stats - it kills all the fun.

 

[Azarkon]

Scrolls are fine as a solution, but if you can just buy them at shops and temples, it raises the question as to why is Athkatla even having an undead problem in the first place.

Well, maybe they just weren't smart enough to figure it out.



Come on, which CRPG doesn't make the player out to be SPECIAL, and everyone else in the world stupid and in need of his SPECIAL help?

 

[mutonizer]

Battle Brothers.

It's not a RPG though, sadly.

 

[Tigranes]

Josh Sawyer on why Tyranny has fancy animations:

Maybe they can be imported...

Better animations vs. encounter variety?

Eh, I'll take the latter.

 

[Haplo]

Too bad the gore animations aren't more like in Fallout 1 and 2....

 

[GloomFrost]

Too bad the gore animations aren't more like in Fallout 1 and 2....

Too bad that 1997 RPG has more death animations then 2016 RPG.

 

[Roguey]

why do you think tyranny needs a sequel? it's the story of the rise to power of an overlord-type legacy who can challenge Kyros. though the buildup is sudden, it ends where it should.

if there's a sequel i really doubt tyranny's protagonist will make an appearance

It sets up a conflict and doesn't resolve it.

It's like going into Bakshi's Lord of the Rings blind in 1978 and gritting your teeth when it just comes to a stop after the battle of Rohan.

Too bad that 1997 RPG has more death animations then 2016 RPG.

Fallout was turn based.